In this special edition episode, I am thrilled to be sharing one of the many fantastic interviews Recorded live in person at the 2022 CommerceNext E-commerce Growth Show back in June. I sat down with some of the top trailblazers and change-makers that joined our community in New York City to discuss the future of digital commerce and share the latest strategies for E-commerce acceleration. So now, let's meet Craig Brommers, CMO American Eagle Outfitters, as he takes on the state of modern post-pandemic retail marketing and the metaverse.
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
In this special edition episode, I am thrilled to be sharing one of the many fantastic interviews Recorded live in person at the 2022 CommerceNext E-commerce Growth Show back in June.
I sat down with some of the top trailblazers and change-makers that joined our community in New York City to discuss the future of digital commerce and share the latest strategies for E-commerce acceleration.
So now, let's meet Craig Brommers, CMO American Eagle Outfitters, as he takes on the state of modern post-pandemic retail marketing and the metaverse.
Be sure and tune into the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast and listen to the many other great interviews I conducted with leading retail marketers and thought leaders.
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven’t already, be sure and click subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week, and check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and the Food Professor podcast. Last but not least, if you are into BBQ, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbeque, with new episodes each and every week!
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co! Have a safe week everyone!
About Craig
Global marketing executive who cultivates high profile brands for geographic, category, and digital expansion. Adept at managing the art and science of modern marketing. Passionate for Purpose-driven brands. Ability to drive global consistency and local relevancy. Metrics-driven marketer who maximizes P&L opportunities. Strong experience in building cohesive, achievement-oriented teams across functions and geographies. MBA at The Anderson School at UCLA.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated on thought leadership panels worldwide. Michael was recently added to ReThink Retail’s prestigious Top 100 Global Retail Influencers for a second year in 2022.
Michael is also the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts, including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus the Remarkable Retail with author Steve Dennis, Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. Most recently, Michael launched Conversations with CommerceNext, a podcast focussed on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers - all available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music and all major podcast platforms. Michael is also the producer and host of the “Last Request Barbeque” channel on YouTube where he cooks meals to die for and influencer riches.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:11
In this special edition episode, I'm thrilled to be sharing one of the many fantastic interviews recorded live in person at the 2022 CommerceNext eCcommerce Growth Show back in June.
Michael LeBlanc 00:21
I sat down with some of the top trailblazers and change-makers that joined our community in New York City to discuss the future of digital commerce and share the latest strategies for E-commerce acceleration.
Michael LeBlanc 00:31
So now, let's meet Craig Brommers, CMO American Eagle Outfitters. as he takes on the state of modern post-pandemic retail marketing, and the Metaverse.
Michael LeBlanc 00:42
Be sure to tune in to the Conversation with CommerceNext podcast and listen to the many other great interviews I conducted with leading retail marketers, and thought leaders.
Michael LeBlanc 00:50
But for now, let's hear from Craig. Craig, welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast here in the CommX studio, how are ya?
Craig Brommers 01:00
I'm doing great. Thanks for asking.
Michael LeBlanc 01:01
So nice to meet you. You're about to go on the stage. So, I've, I've been talking to people have come off the stage. So, I'm going to change my inflection you're going to come. We're going to talk about what you're going to talk about. But first, tell me a little bit about yourself. I mean, looking at your background, you've got quite a pedigree in fashion and apparel. What do you got, Calvin Klein, Gap. Abercrombie, tell us what you do. Tell us how you got there and what you do for a living today.
Craig Brommers 01:25
I kind of chuckle I, I, I joke that I'm making my way through the American mall.
Michael LeBlanc01:28
Yeah, that's true.
Craig Brommers01:30
But, but no, it is a pinch me career and I've had the privilege of leading global marketing for some of the most iconic American brands out there to your point, Calvin Klein, Abercrombie & Fitch, Gap and now at American Eagle. And before Calvin, I was the head of marketing for Speedo the swimmer company during the Michael Phelps Olympics. So, I've had I've had a pretty good, -
Michael LeBlanc01:49
That was a moment, right? That was a moment, -
Craig Brommers 01:52
That was definitely more than a moment, yeah. So, I've had a pretty good run having a ton of fun at American Eagle though, -
Michael LeBlanc 01:57
Yeah, -
Craig Brommers 01:58
American Eagle is Gen Z's number one specialty retailer, number one seller of jeans to women of all ages in the US. And with that young demo, you know, it definitely keeps you on your feet and I love how our team is innovating right now.
Michael LeBlanc 02:12
So, how did you get where you are? Were you, you know, retail has been called the accidental career. Was it an accident for you? Or was a purposeful? Or how did you how did you get into retail? I mean, you were in brand with Speedo, but you, you're kind of going in the fashion. How did you get there?
Craig Brommers 02:25
You know what, I, I think you're right. I think it was somewhat accidental. I have had the privilege of pursuing three of my personal passions in my career. So, I worked for the US Senator from my home state of Washington when I got out. So, politics was interesting to me. Then I pivoted to sports, had a chance to do Super Bowls, a big tennis player, so a lot of ATP WTA, tour events, NASCAR, but one of those events was the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, where I met the team at Speedo and then made that pivot in, into that world.
Michael LeBlanc 02:59
Now, when you say did these things, what were you doing at these things?
Craig Brommers 03:03
So, I when I was doing these things, I was in marketing public relations back then. (Crossover talk). So, -
Michael LeBlanc 03:09
They're good transition from politics and communications in to calm, in general, right, basically, -
Craig Brommers 03:13
That's right. And so, the CEO of the parent company of Speedo in 2010, was looking for a first ever head of marketing for Calvin Klein. tapped me on the shoulder after an amazing run of Michael Phelps in the Beijing Olympics. And so, I said, Hey, let's ,let's do this. So, I picked up my family, moved from LA, out here into the to the Northeast, and then again, I have had a great run with these amazing brands to your point a little bit more in that fashion space.
Michael LeBlanc 03:42
Yeah, yeah. Are you an LA native? Are you a West Coast native?
Craig Brommers 03:45
West Coast native, although we've been back here in the eastern part of the US for the last 12 to 13 years, I hate the winters, love the summers, love the falls, -
Michael LeBlanc 03:55
Yeah, yeah,
Craig Brommers 03:55
And absolutely love the energy that, that New York provides to our industry. So, it's been real fun to be here.
Michael LeBlanc 04:02
Now, what is it that allows you or the team to capture the zeitgeist of the shopper today? I mean, we've just gone through this strange period. And I'm, I'm trying to sort out in my mind that difference between consumer accommodations to a weird time in our lives, right? I mean, I'm from Canada, and the, the malls were shut down for eight, nine months. So, eCommerce blossomed, but there's categories that just were struggling just because there wasn't either demand or it was just hard to get.
Michael LeBlanc 04:28
And then do you perceive at all any structural changes in how consumers are shopping? Because we know like, okay, you know, we knew during the COVID era, they go in the shop and get the hell out, right. They didn't browse, they didn't linger. But did all that happen with no impact? What, how are you guys thinking about that? How do you how are you trying to understand your shopper?
Craig Brommers 04:48
I mean, first of all, to your point, the last three years, I mean, and, and I've done this thing for 25 years, -
Michael LeBlanc 04:55
Sure, -
Craig Brommers 04:55
And I thought 2022 would be somewhat more understandable. And here I sit with you and Wow, this could be the most difficult year for our industry yet. Anyway, so the, the cool thing is because we engage with a younger generation of consumers, I do think that at American Eagle, we have a pulse on what's new, and, and what's next. And what we hear from our customer and what we see from our customer. We're going to try a new word here together, phygital, it's the new buzzword. But I think it's truthful. And the reason is, is because we are living in this continuum of our physical and digital selves. And the customer is expecting us as retailers to perform for them in all of those worlds and all of those times. So, has physical mall business died? Absolutely, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:45
Absolutely not, right.?
Craig Brommers 05:46
We had record traffic last year. And a part of the reason why our company had a record revenue year last year was the strong return of a physical business. Having said that, has digital business built, of course it has, our app business is off the charts it's doing so well. And I'm here at CommerceNext to speak about what's new in the Metaverse and I think that we're one of the unique brands that so far has found some commercial,
Michael LeBlanc 06:15
Oh, interesting, -
Craig Brommers06:17
Viability, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:19
That's interesting, -
Craig Brommers06:20
In this world as well. So, I think it's the it's, you know, a as always, the customer is, is, is first and should be. And we follow their lead, and the lead of Gen Z and Gen Alpha behind that is this digital expression of themselves.
Michael LeBlanc 06:32
Now, when you talk about the hand on the on the keeping the pulse of the customer, how do you get your hand on that pulse? Like are you doing sentiment analysis on social? I mean, they don't always articulate exactly what they want. And they sometimes they want sustainability but buy differently or whatever. Like how do you how do you actually trail that and, and sort through all the noise to find out the real insights?
Craig Brommers 06:52
Full stop, we have the best damn customer insights team in our industry. And it is a privilege to work with this crew. One of the things I think is unique to our businesses, we have a panel of 2000 customers aged 15 to 25 that we can ask any question, -
Michael LeBlanc 07:08
That's your own panel that you got right, right on, -
Craig Brommers 07:10
Exactly, proprietary. So, we can go out to them on anything at any point. And it could be a trend, it could be an ad campaign, it could be causes that they'd like our brands to support. So, I think that's one part of it. We were very early to get back out into the real world, even during the pandemic to make sure we were listening to these kids. And the team does such clever digital researches as well. And I think that's helped us be a step or three in front of our competitors, because we're so in tune with what's going on out there.
Michael LeBlanc 07:45
I've got a last question about the business. And then I want to talk about what you're going to talk about here is this Metaverse. When I when you think of table stakes and differentiators in your business, so table stakes to me is always a moving point. Like I was in a business where we had you could finance for 0%, right, now the BNPL players have kind of taken that away and it moved it more to table stakes and differentiators. What is it that makes a differentiator in your business, is it style, is it fit? Is it what you're describing the keeping that zeitgeist front and forward?
Michael LeBlanc 08:15
If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be right back with this special 2022 CommerceNext eCcommerce Growth Show bonus episode right after this message.
Michael LeBlanc 08:30
After two years of unprecedented growth, some think eCommerce has hit its peak. So, what comes next? As businesses look to enter the next year in eCommerce growth CommX serves as a guide to get them there. Led by best-in-class technology, providers across the commerce ecosystem including Bloomreach, Miracle, Cinch, ShipBob and Avalere. CommX offers exclusive research, benchmarking, data and more. Empowering businesses to deliver a commerce experience that drives measurable revenue growth. Learn more at Commerce Experience dot com. That's commerceexperience.com.
Craig Brommers 09:03
You know what, we're in specialty retail at a time where the big three, Amazon Target and Walmart continue to vacuum up share. So, we actually believe that the true superpower are brands. And the reality is whether it's the American Eagle brand, or whether it's the Airy brand, or whether it's the Offline brand. These are brands that mean something to our customers. And because of that, we want to make sure that we're communicating about our amazing quality products.
Craig Brommers 09:35
But we also need to communicate about what we stand for and what our values are. And at the American Eagle brand, those values very closely aligned to Gen Z. And in fact, in the most recent Piper Teens survey of top retailers, those kids kindly said we were their second most favorite retail brand, number one a very small company named Nike, -
Michael LeBlanc 09:57
Never heard of them, -
Craig Brommers 09:58
I mean, you're, you're in a crowded category.
Craig Brommers 09:58
Never heard of them, right. But we were still ahead of Lululemon, which was number three, Adidas at number four and H&M at number five, smaller than all of those companies, -
Craig Brommers 10:05
That's right. That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 10:09
It's a crowded category, you (crossover talk), -
Craig Brommers 10:10
But it was clear that our brand stood out. And so, that is really our superpower and how we feel like we differentiate ourselves.
Michael LeBlanc 10:17
Well, let's talk about what you're going to talk about on the stage. So, this Metaverse thing, you know, there's, you know, the, the sentiment is kind of like, is this like eCommerce was 20 years ago, people you know, Scott and I were talking, Scott Silverman, people were pooh poohing him when we were, you know, when we were getting it started, it will never be anything. On the other hand, it seems like it's so far away that it, you know, should it how what kind of priority? What do you guys doing with the Metaverse? What have you learned?
Craig Brommers 10:43
Well, full stop. It's the most hyped topic in all of market on today. So, if, if we're a brand that has Gen Z as our target customer, and, and we need to dive into youth culture, we need to be here. And, and, and we are probably on the leading edge of trying almost everything out there in the Metaverse and I'll be honest, not everything is worked out how we thought it would, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 11:06
Were you around during Second Life because I launched a couple of stores in Second Life in my, my tenure, right?
Craig Brommers 11:11
I definitely remember Second Life. In fact, I was reading a Metaverse book, who can believe that? A, a friend of mine wrote a, a, a Metaverse book. And Second Life was wa-, was in there. But listen, I, I think there's something here. But I'm not sure any of us, myself included is an expert at this stage on the Metaverse. It's so new, it's ever changing, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:31
Sure, sure, -
Craig Brommers 11:32
But what have we heard from our customer, they love unique, immersive experiences where they can express maybe their true self or different parts of themselves. They love to shop in the Metaverse, whether it's for avatars, or for real life, physical goods. They love this gamification of, of a, a brand experience. And we're finding some areas that we really think have some commercial value, we launched a number of Snapchat, augmented reality, virtual pop up stores, were going to be close to $10 million in revenue. And again, for a $5 billion company it's, it's you know, not needle moving at this point.
Michael LeBlanc 12:14
Yeah.
Craig Brommers 12:15
It's not immaterial, either, though. I mean, (crossover talk), connect something. I mean, is there a meaning (inaudible) strategically to connect that kind of commerce to snap, right? (Crossover talk). I mean that's fairly meaningful, right? A lot of people are trying to reach that nirvana.
Michael LeBlanc 12:15
But it does tell us, -
Craig Brommers 12:27
That's right. So, listen, we have had roughly a 10% innovation budget at American Eagle for quite some time. And right now that innovation budget is, is, is directed towards the Metaverse and, and we have the privilege of a CEO and Chairman, Jay Schottenstein, who is very supportive of, of innovation, we're having a lot of fun. You know, if you and I are sitting here at this podcast next year, at this time, I think that there will probably some be some more viable opportunities. But I'm also certain that there's some things that, that will have disappeared. And, (crossover talk), we'll kind of chuckle that we tried that thing. So, who knows.
Michael LeBlanc 13:04
So, last kind of set of questions two starts and one stop. So, this is kind of an advice perspective for our fellow retailers, fellow marketers. Two things I should start doing based on your experience particularly your experience today. And one thing maybe they should just do less of that's not working as much as it used to or that you see commonly done that you'd say, you know, I wouldn't do that if I were you any, any wisdom to share from that perspective?
Craig Brommers 13:27
Yeah, I think as we get into, I don't know if I can call it post-pandemic life, but whatever this next stage of, of, of life is, I, I would tell people to stop worrying about work life balance, and start being more focused on dedicating yourself to things you love, whether it is in your personal life, or your professional life. And, and that's how I've modeled my career, if, if I'm enjoying doing this, and having fun, and our team is, is successful, that, that, that feels great
Michael LeBlanc 13:59
Say more about that, because I get a lot of questions around particularly now, hybrid work, you know, what's the right solution? What's the right blend? How do I motivate a team, you know, I got great productivity, but the cohesion to the brand or the, the cohesion of the culture is a little harder to build. So, say a bit more about that, like because it is ultimately fundamentally anchored in this kind of work life balance, right? Listen, I don't have to commute I'm going to save 15 hours of my day. Or, I do and can I still build a career right? It's pretty gnarly kind of questions, right?
Craig Brommers 14:29
Yeah. At American Eagle, we have a hybrid, you know, work policy right now. And in, in my estimation for my team and I have a pretty big team about 200 or so people is, if you need to be in an office or a physical place, great, show up but that doesn't mean you have to clock in nine to five you know, get your get, get whatever you need to be done there. And then if you're doing some of your best work from home, great, high five, I don't care. It's allowed and I have I have a lot of women on my team, and it's allowed, especially young mothers to really be able to, (crossover talk), to be present, -
Michael LeBlanc 15:07
It's a heavy life man, it's a heavy left, yeah, -
Craig Brommers 15:09
And then I think the other thing is, it's an overwhelming time in our industry. And I mentioned before that this could be one of the tougher years, and that's saying a lot coming out of 2020 and 2021. But it's also one of the most exciting times to be in our industry. And I would really encourage people to start surrounding themselves with fascinating people, who are doing fascinating work, to deliver for customers, not just today, but to 5,10 years from now. And I have been purposeful in, in my daily grind, to set aside some time to catch up with someone that's doing someone something really cool out there, or, or make sure I connect with the group that has something to, to, to offer. And that's really motivated me, I think it could be something fun for others to do as well.
Craig Brommers 15:09
And, and present in their professional lives, but then present in their, in their personal lives. And even for me, I am able to make breakfast for, for my wife, my two teenage daughters almost every morning, which is saying a lot, because I used to be one of those, give my, give the slog on the, in the Metro-North, and, and come in, and then maybe, maybe see someone at night. So, yeah, I, I just think it's try to focus on things that you enjoy, personally or professionally, and just maximize the heck out of those. And I think that could be a really meaningful, happy life.
Craig Brommers 16:09
Do you think your organization is more resilient and more capable now after the past three years.
Craig Brommers 16:38
I do, I think that you know, it was fight or flight, right, you know, no one knew what was going to happen for a moment. And to your point, you know, you're closing down 900 plus stores in, in North America, and, and, and all sorts of other things. So, it feels like no matter what the world throws us, and they're throwing a lot at us right now. The fortitude, and focus to forge ahead and find innovative solutions to get through, feels even better than it did in our industry back in 2019. In, in other, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 17:15
It feels like handling rough, rough economic waters, which are going to comes and come and go through our careers all the time. It's kind of not the same compared to what we just had to go through. So, you know, you get a little bit of resilience and a little bit of (inaudible). All right, what should retailers perhaps stop doing or do less of from your perspective?
Craig Brommers 17:32
Well, I think stop repeating that the, the mistakes of the past. And I'm a little bit disappointed that here we are, again, as we're, we're back in the discounting game, to some extent, many retailers have reported after Q1, you know, inventory levels a bit higher than, than perhaps they, they should be, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:53
First response, cut price.
Craig Brommers 17:55
That's right. That's right. So, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:57
You know what they say about a race to the bottom, and sometimes you actually win, which is, you know, not a great thing.
Craig Brommers 18:01
Yeah. So, I, I think that we did so good for a year and a half or so, you know, post the height of, of, of the 2020 COVID crisis. And I think we're, we're tripping back into some, some, -
Michael LeBlanc 18:15
Old habits, -
Craig Brommers 18:16
Some old habits. So, let's see if we can get ourselves as an industry cleaned up of course in the next quarter or two, and then be in a stronger position as we head into whatever 2023 is going to throw at us down the road.
Michael LeBlanc 18:29
Well, Craig, thanks so much for stopping by chit and chatting here in the CommX podcast studios. It's wonderful to meet you. It's wonderful to meet you in person and continued success. And let's see how the year sorts out. Maybe we'll catch up again next year and see how the industry handles it.
Craig Brommers 18:43
Sounds great. Thanks for having me today.
Michael LeBlanc 18:45
Thanks again. Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext, please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform, where we will be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode.
Michael LeBlanc 19:02
CommerceNext is a community event series and conference from marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest eCommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at commercenext.com. Have a fantastic week everyone.
Michael LeBlanc 19:31
Thanks for tuning in to this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure to click and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week. And check out my other retail industry media properties the Remarkable Retail podcast Conversations with CommerceNext podcast and The Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 19:51
Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbecue with new episodes each and every week. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M. E. LeBlanc & Company and Maven media. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website, meleblanc.co.
Have a safe week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Metaverse, commerce, brand, retail, customer, podcast, ecommerce, industry, business, career, year, marketing, Calvin Klein, Speedo, retailers, marketers, American Eagle, eCommerce, stop, episode