In this episode, a special preview interview with one of the many outstanding thought leaders and change-makers taking the stage for the RCC Store conference on May 30/31st. David Shing (also known as "Shingy") is an Australian futurist, speaker, creative director, strategic digital consultant, and entrepreneur.
Welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. My name is Michael LeBlanc, and I am your host, I believe in the power of storytelling to bring the retail industry to life. I'll bring insights, perspectives and experiences from some of the retail industry's most innovative and influential voices each week. This podcast is produced in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
In this episode, a special preview interview with one of the many outstanding thought leaders and change-makers taking the stage for the RCC Store conference on May 30/31st.
David Shing (also known as "Shingy") is an Australian futurist, speaker, creative director, strategic digital consultant, and entrepreneur.
Shingy has spent most of his adult life in the digital world, working for both large and small creative companies globally while co-authoring several technology-related patents. We chat about his electric background, a hint of the knowledge and insights he'll be dropping on the main stage, and a quick two-start, one-stop advice for retailer and retail industry insiders.
https://www.shingy.com/
About Shingy
“Artist, globe trotting speaker and market seeker, he is a storyteller who identifies emerging trends, and inspires clients to think differently.” – Forbes
David Shing (known as “Shingy”) is an Australian futurist, speaker, creative director, strategic digital consultant, and entrepreneur. Known for his performative persona and his bold and polarizing moniker, the digital prophet, Shingy is a multidimensional creative who specializes in advising clients about inventive and effective approaches to optimizing brand value within the digital landscape. He is passionate about educating big brands about the unique opportunities afforded by emerging digital, social and mobile technologies.
Shing has spent most of his adult life in the digital world working for both large and small creative companies globally, while also co-authoring several technology related patents. He recently served as Verizon Media’s digital prophet and prior to that, AOL’s European head of media and marketing responsible for 11 countries.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada and the Bank of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience with Levi's, Black & Decker, Hudson's Bay, Today's Shopping Choice and Pandora Jewellery.
Michael has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated worldwide in thought leadership panels. ReThink Retail has added Michael to their prestigious Top Global Retail Influencers list for 2023 for the third year in a row.
Michael is also the president of Maven Media, producing a network of leading trade podcasts, including Canada's top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail. He produces and co-hosts Remarkable Retail with best-selling author Steve Dennis, now ranked one of the top retail podcasts in the world.
Based in San Francisco, Global eCommerce Leaders podcast explores global cross-border issues and opportunities for eCommerce brands and retailers.
Last but not least, Michael is the producer and host of the "Last Request Barbeque" channel on YouTube, where he cooks meals to die for - and collaborates with top brands as a food and product influencer across North America.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. My name is Michael Leblanc, and I am your host. This podcast is produced in conjunction with the Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:13
In this episode a special preview interview with one of the many outstanding thought leaders and changemakers taking the stage for the RCC store conference on May 30 and 31. David Shing, also known as Shingy, is an Australian futurist speaker, creative director, strategic digital consultant, and entrepreneur. Shingy has spent most of his adult life in the digital world working for both large and small creative companies globally, while co-offering several technology related patents. We chat about his eclectic background, a hint of the knowledge and insights that we’re dropping on the main stage at Store, and a quick two start, one stop advice for retailers and retail industry insiders.
Let's listen in now.
Michael LeBlanc 00:52
Shingy, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing this morning?
David Shing 00:55
Michael, thanks for having me, mate. I'm great. Thanks for asking.
Michael LeBlanc 00:58
Where am I finding you today?
David Shing 01:00
New York.
Michael LeBlanc 01:01
New York, New York. Now, by the sound of your accent, you're not a native, born and raised, New Yorker. So tell me a little bit about where you're from and a little bit about your background.
David Shing 01:14
You don't think this is the back hills in New York or something like that brother.
Michael LeBlanc 01:17
It, well not one of the experiences yet. There's always a possibility, you know.
David Shing 01:21
No, I'm from Aus, and my background is design. I mean, I grew up in the bush of Australia. I'm one of 10 kids, I grew up at a Chinese restaurant, very much a working family of chefs and I wanted to get the hell away from that and all of my family. So I studied design and helped invent some internet technology way back in the day and helped move a company from Australia to New York City, which feels like 1000 years ago, but you know, in what they would call today, Web 1, my friend.
Michael LeBlanc 01:50
Tell me a little bit more about that because I was looking at your background, you and I have a not dissimilar background, I launched e-commerce for Hudson's Bay and retailers back in 97, I sold the first pair of jeans online for Levi's in the world and AOL was a partner of mine back in a day and tell me about your background and how you got into that.
David Shing 02:09
How beautiful. So, my background is in citizen design, but I really care about sort of UX/UI as a, as a sort of formal interest in the interwebs, back in the day. And the company that that we started was all about building websites, which sounds like a remarkably useful pedestrian tool today, but back in the you know, the late 90s was very, very, very difficult to build, and you had to raise a lot of money to do it and that company didn't succeed, but the technology went on to sort of help. I think I've got six patents around that Internet technology, which is all about building website-y stuff.
David Shing 02:42
And what happened was that I was on my way to London for the second time and an old friend of mine, who used to, he was actually my first employee in New York, was an executive at AOL and he asked me to come along and see if he could, if we could help launch a bunch of territories, and called the new geographies and so I joined him as his head of media in Europe, looking after all these launches, and then ultimately, I took over the marketing as well. So, I'd been head of media and marketing of Europe for a few years for AOL and then I invented this, this gig, called, you know, this evangelism gig which people wanted to call me an evangelist and I said, Well screw that, I'll call myself the digital prophet. Which people either love or loathe and you know, look, I get it. I'm pretty self-aware, dude.
Michael LeBlanc 03:28
Were you naturally drawn into I remember, back in the day, I saw it as an opportunity. I was doing brand management, Black and Decker, but I saw the internet, you know, I bought a book on Amazon, I said, 'hey, this could really be something'. How are you, there's many things someone as, obviously, talented and creative as yourself could have done, how are you drawn into this part of the world and, and the internet ecosystem, was it just this?
David Shing 03:50
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 03:51
Opportunity of -
David Shing 03:52
Great question.
Michael LeBlanc 03:53
This is growing, this is blowing up. I think I'm gonna chase this one down. Tell me a little bit about that.
David Shing 03:58
Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question and you think I'd be, you know, smart enough to sort of chase it down. It didn't, I fell into it by accident and why I say that is that as a last school of classically trained, graphic design, so if you want to talk about fonts and kerning, and all of that good stuff made, I've done it, and I've been there, I saw an industry change rapidly and I'm talking like typesetting, and bromides and all these things that we had back in the day, long gone, Pantone, squeaky markers, all that stuff and, you know, I had to self-teach computers, which is pretty easy to pick up and then programming on computers isn't.
David Shing 04:33
So, I got super curious about how to actually develop software and just enough to be able to sort of markup HTML on a little JavaScript back in the day, that's about it, but what I was fascinated about was just the ability that the Internet to be able to communicate in a way that felt incredibly democratized and I was somebody grew up with TV and it wasn't until you know, that culture for me televisions was kind of television was kind of a very blatant, passive experience, it wasn't something that really gives you this charisma, this energy of saying, how do I use it as communication and I didn't grow up with AOL or anyone like that, you know, it was just really a tool to communicate, but something that was really quite lovely because it allowed you to have this sort of multi path communication.
David Shing 05:24
You know, let's talk about CB radios back in the day, but something that felt like it was interactive in real time, and I thought ‘there is an opportunity here’, but what was happening was there wasn't a mass communication device. Meaning there wasn't there was the advent of a couple of search engines, but there wasn't a lot to be found and so you know, web design was something that I was incredibly passionate about and I thought that should have been democratized and people should have access to be able to build websites down because it was incredibly hard. It was software based, but why not through browser, but the internet itself has just been this, you know, this proper portal to opening up the entire world.
Michael LeBlanc 05:59
And what I mean by that, and it sounds really naive and poetic when I say that, but the truth is, it allowed the whole world to feel so much smaller and it's also allowed a generation of kids to feel like they have incredible breadth of information, but then they could be quite shallow in their knowledge and so there's this interesting sort of impasse that's happening and I find it to be fascinating. So long story long to say that I felt asked backwards into it, but I'm thrilled because the interactivity and the ability to say that creativity can thrive in an environment that feels like it's through a screen from somebody who's sort of grew up analog, was just enchanting to me, but also, I haven't had a TV. I haven't had a TV, like, since I moved to America and so, you know, I grew up with three channels of television. It was all kind of very dinky but by midnight, it was turned off. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 06:50
Test pattern. You'd see the test pattern.
David Shing 06:51
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 06:51
My wife and I were talking about that last week. It was 3am and I was watching Netflix, remember the day when it just flicked to the test pattern.
David Shing 06:58
But also understand that, you know, when I came to New York, there was like 99 channels of television, and none of it was good and so I just realized that it wasn't for me and so I really went into the internet.
Michael LeBlanc 07:06
Pretty sketchy stuff from my recollection of the, of the 90s on New York television too, it was pretty indie stuff.
David Shing 07:12
It was just not that great, mate. 99 channels of rubbish and all you do is frequency bumping into things you care about, like, you know, for me, it's music and food and whatever, things that are pretty, you know, pretty obvious, but what's amazing is that the, that's the proliferation of internet and the thing that I found about it is that it just gave me this massive trust, I could trust that the things that I'm finding in there was super curious. It was never ending, there was two-way communication, there was the ability to just feel like you're part of a community, any time of the day, any, any essence and the only challenge at that point was just connectivity. I mean, you still had, wireless was pretty rubbish. You know, the connected cable was nice. It hasn't been until the last time in my mind of the last 10 years that it's just been phenomenal.
Michael LeBlanc 07:56
Yeah, we always saw the broadband as we used to call it then the kind of the accelerant or the enabler, the unlock really,
David Shing 08:04
Big time.
Michael LeBlanc 08:05
Right.
David Shing 08:06
Michael, I have not thought about this stuff for a long time and you're asking me, you're asking me questions about a time that I have to dig into my gray matter, because dude, it is dark and stormy in there and I haven't been out there to check that weather out for quite some time because I take it for granted. I take it for granted made I turn on my phone and the thing works and, you know, there's about eight apps that I use that I give, give a rat's about and then the rest of its kind of all happens, but I'm very curious about the amount of time that people spend on those devices and it bothers me.
Michael LeBlanc 08:33
No kidding. Well, let's, let's, let's dive into Flash, how you build out Flash websites. I'm kidding.
David Shing 08:39
Please bring back Macromedia, please.
Michael LeBlanc 08:41
There's, there's one for the history books. All right. So listeners, we're not going into history but I want to, before I want to, before I ask you about what you're going to chat, chat about on the stage at Store. I want to follow up one element for you because we've got a little bit of time. At the end of the day, the halcyon days of the internet are much of what you describe this, this platform that unified people around the world, unified kids around the world. It opened up so many possibilities. It, lately particularly, some parts social media, some parts other, has had a very, very dark side to it and it's not like we can put the toothpaste back in the tube but on a net benefit basis. Do you think we're still ahead with internet connectivity and, and, and social media than we are from its, its deficits and its challenges, are we still ahead of the game?
David Shing 09:31
Oh, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 09:32
Further ahead.
David Shing 09:34
Michael, I'm euphoric about it and why I would say that is that, you know, I stand behind the belief that, you know, good will always win over evil and working with somebody like AOL back in the day, we fought many of those battles and a lot of those battles are actually truncated before you see the evil to be frank. There's some good and evil in everything that we do. So as much as you try and sort of mask it, it's going to come but I hope it trumps, but here's the other thing that's really interesting. A friend of mine gave me some advice a long time ago, when the internet wasn't loving me so much, and I was being hated on. So I was really a victim of being bullied and particularly across Twitter at the time, and I think I retired from Twitter actively really giving a rat's about publishing around 2014, 15. Something like that. He said, 'look, just go where you're celebrated dude'.
Michael LeBlanc 10:22
Yeah.
David Shing 10:23
And I thought, well, that's incredible advice for two reasons. One, you can, you can now choose to go where you are celebrated or to you can stay and sit in the dogfight if you've got a dog in the ring but who cares for that,
Michael LeBlanc 10:32
Right, right.
David Shing 10:33
So I would say that, yes. Now, if we were to have this conversation over big fat glass of wine, and we're together and canoe or something in Toronto, I would sort of also go down the rabbit warren of, you know, where we're going, particularly with these new technologies is that not all of its great,
Michael LeBlanc 10:50
Yeah.
David Shing 10:51
It's less about the evilness. It's just about the attention of it all, and what it's doing to our interpersonal interconnection, human skills, I'm not necessarily a massive fan of so I'm trying to protect that one for me as a data point of one, and for others around me. So you know, because part of my job is to not just sort of seek out these interesting ideas, but also the relationship we as humans have with technology, and what those behaviors are going to do and so as somebody who travels and speaks and has the ability to sort of have a rigorous consulting business to or get into the weeds, but when I pontificate and just think big, there is some real challenges that we have ahead of us. But I tend to say, well, let's not 'woe is me' this, what's the positive of it. and one of the things I'm doing is that I'm speaking at this conference, as you know, in a couple of months, and I'm thrilled about it, because retail is a cornerstone of still things that we do, not all of us just jump on Amazon all day and just get the brown box ordered. You know, as much as that went through the roof, local has also been an incredible trend, and all these other amazing things that happen in retail, which is how we still want to connect. It's not just all about single transaction moments. So, I'm excited about it.
Michael LeBlanc 11:59
Yeah, right on. Well, let's, that's a good segue, let's talk just briefly give people a hint of what they're, already there, you're already given them a good flavor of the kind of caliber of discussion but giving us a hint about what you're going to be chitting and chatting about at a Store on May 30, 31, at the big conference?
David Shing 12:18
Chitting and chatting about, dude.
Michael LeBlanc 12:19
Chitting and chatting.
David Shing 12:20
Oh, that is an amazing term I want to use that, if you don't mind, I'm gonna use that I'm going to steal that from your Michael, chitting and chatting.
Michael LeBlanc 12:26
Common license, common license to that
David Shing 12:28
I am hoping to be able to do like a year's worth of digital education in an hour, or 45 minutes, or whatever I've got.
Michael LeBlanc 12:36
Yeah.
David Shing 12:36
The truth is, there's so much change one, I want to kind of update us on where we are and what we're doing, but also, you know, understand that there's technologies out there that have formed the new revolution and the revolution I'm talking about, or the fourth industrial revolution is powered by intelligence. So I think for probably the last six or seven years, I've been saying that this is going to be the, the fourth industrial revolution, intelligence, in human or otherwise and so how do we get there, what does it mean and where are we going and what are the evidence of it and more importantly, are there opportunities and that's where I find it to be fascinating.
David Shing 13:08
So, if we're grounded upon truth, there are some things that come in, particularly when we look at the hype cycle, the hype cycle is so fast, that you need some context. So where do you play your bits and where do you, you know, where do you actually sit and understand what you want to do, or what are you're going to play and some of it is just really about digesting all of this change and understanding where you have permission to play and where you should experiment where you should focus and I'm going to talk about those sorts of things, which is what's going on with behaviors, how are we connected with technology and what does that got to do with retail.
David Shing 13:42
And there's some things that I've seen, particularly around pandemic days, there are some particular trends that brands should definitely take advantage of, and I don't care whether you're small, large, b2b, b2c doesn't really matter. There are three things that would, that would, I would recommend that people think about now engaging in and these seem pretty obvious, but they're not because they're not going to last. So, one is convenience. I mean, Amazon has taught us that, you know, two days is too long to get things delivered, but what does convenience mean, from your lens and your point of view, that's one thing. The second thing I would say is comfort. What are the things that you do as a brand, whether you are directly in the purchase cycle, or whether you're thinking about engaging with people in nurturing that relationship, etc., etc. What do you do that provides comfort, and the third thing is nostalgia.
David Shing 14:29
Nostalgia is very important because it relates to comfort and relates to convenience, but you know, I saw particularly in the middle of a pandemic that nostalgia was something that people really pondered. So, bedtime reading went up, people went back to baking. I mean, these old sort of old school themes are really front and center and we don't have a lot of time left to be able to capitalize upon those, but we do, we have a little bit more time and the reason why I think that's important is that all brands have permission to play in those three, three sectors, but also, we have to watch out for the next generation, the next generation of kids that are coming so everybody talks about millennial for the longest time, ugh and that's been Gen Z for longest time, they're watching the TikToks and all that sort of rubbish. Yep. Sorry, all of that good stuff.
David Shing 15:06
And then the flip side of that, is this Gen, Generation Alphas coming.
Michael LeBlanc 15:11
Yes.
David Shing 15:12
Now what's amazing about that, by 2025, there will be 2 billion of them. So they're enormous, its enormous audience. And what's crazy about that, is that there was a survey done, I don't know, a couple of years ago about that generation and the vast majority of them did not want to be called Alpha, they wanted to be called Founder. So that in itself is a statement that tells you the attitude that's coming. So there are certain things that we need to sort of just be aware of and understand that, because they're coming in, just how are you going to be at least prepared for them?
Michael LeBlanc 15:38
Yeah, it's interesting. I've heard the same thing. They basically want agency over their own cohort description, which is just a phenomenal idea. Just, I've never heard of such a thing. Well, let's,
David Shing 15:49
It's also, I'm sorry, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just barge in there for one quick second, which is, it's the most perfect time for that, because, because of where we are in the world, in terms of changing behaviors, and the ability to be who you need to be and fluidity, etc, etc. It comes as no surprise, and the, it's a, it's going to be pretty radical to see what that means.
Michael LeBlanc 16:10
Last question for you, two starts and one stop, we're gonna phrase it just a quick hit of advice, because it sounds like you're going to be bringing the advice and dropping the knowledge on the stage here when you're here. So, give me two starts and one stop, quick advice to retailers listening about from your perspective, consulting, speaking, and your background, two things they should start doing and one thing they should probably stop doing. Doesn't work or doesn't work anymore.
David Shing 16:36
At the absolute top of the tree, the first thing anybody should do is just do a reconciliation of why they're doing it and here's why I would say that is that there's so much that I see in the marketplace where people talk about what they do and how they do it. They forget about the why, and the why it comes back, because it's really hard then to reach that point, we have to nasal go, everything comes from the why not the what and the how, the what and how are tactics. We love to run the shiny objects because we couldn't justify them, but for me, it's the why, why, why, why, why.
David Shing 17:06
And in that part of the 'why' there are three things. So there's one thing, there are three things within any particularly brand storytelling, that's going to help anybody particularly when we're trying to have people in a retail category, experience that is build trust and to do that those three things you need to focus upon is brand story, which, you know, I think most people do a reasonable job of that brand performance, which is the entire industry is focused on today. It's all about buy one, get one free, 50% off, whatever the, whatever the proposition is, it's all about performance, which I'm kind of over and it feels way too much DR and it feels like the internet was built for that, but it wasn't it was built for much more purpose and the last piece that's incredibly difficult is feel.
David Shing 17:52
So, what is your brand feel when it comes to the beautiful digi-verse. I mean, you do it in physical, if you are a physical brand. So doing that in the digital space is incredibly important because what most people do, brother, is they go and homogenize a brand across the platform of which is hot and shiny today and they end up creating content that feels like everybody else's and we end up where we are, which is kind of boring.
Michael LeBlanc 18:17
I guess that fits in is your stop, stop making content that is, you know, on thoughtful or unprincipled or unconnected to the brand message to any, any comments, last comments on that, that, that you see?
David Shing 18:30
You read me well, my friend, but I would say one, one other thing, one other thing, one other thing. If the goal of anything that you do, particularly when it comes to digital connection, that should have a surprise, period, full stop because if you're not, you know, why are you building it, do you want it to get passed on, do you want people to tilt their head and think I never expected that. I mean, that for me is the cornerstone of all that's a secret ingredient. So that's my entire presentation. You guys don't have to come but I'd like to see you present.
Michael LeBlanc 18:59
I'm editing that part out.
David Shing 19:02
Now listen, I would love, I would love to see people there. I can't wait to be in Toronto again and look, man, as long as, as, as long as the energy of that city, which is probably it's going to be in the top five construction cities in the world outside of Asia. It is unbelievable. Every time I go to Toronto, but yeah, all good stuff, brother.
Michael LeBlanc 19:25
Well, we're looking forward to being able to host you, you'll be on day one and you're gonna bring us home you're the, you're, we're saving the best for last and that day. So, thanks again for jumping on the mic now and giving us a bit of a preview and looking forward to meeting you in person and hearing your wisdom and, and thoughts live on the stage. So have a great rest of your week and like I said, we'll see you in May.
David Shing 19:46
Thanks so much, brother.
Michael LeBlanc 19:47
Thanks for tuning into this episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure and follow on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically each week and be sure to check out my other retail industry media properties Remarkable Retail podcast with Steve Dennis, and the Global E-commerce Leaders podcast. Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my YouTube barbecue show Last Request Barbecue with new episodes each and every week.
Michael LeBlanc 20:11
I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, consumer growth consultant, President of ME Leblanc and Company Inc, Maven Media, and keynote speaker. If you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
Michael LeBlanc 20:26
Safe travels everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, retail, brand, aol, internet, grew, world, digital, pretty, michael, technology, chat, podcast, day, feel, background, talk, Leblanc, thought, rubbish