The Voice of Retail

Death by B.S.

Episode Summary

Leadership Coach, Keynote Speaker and author, Likky Lavji can speak to the power of vulnerability and trust in leadership. When it comes to being a business leader and building incredibly cohesive teams, Likky is inviting the world to get familiar with what they have yet to see - their blind spots. In this episode of The Voice of Retail, Likky calls on his years of personal and professional experience. We talk about finding life’s purpose, the importance of listening and his new book Death by B.S.

Episode Notes

Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.

Leadership Coach, Keynote Speaker and author, Likky Lavji can speak to the power of vulnerability and trust in leadership.

When it comes to being a business leader and building incredibly cohesive teams, Likky is inviting the world to get familiar with what they have yet to see - their blind spots.

In this episode of The Voice of Retail, Likky calls on his years of personal and professional experience. We talk about finding life’s purpose, the importance of listening and his new book Death by B.S.

Thanks for tuning into today’s episode of The Voice of Retail.  Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed  this episode please consider leaving a rating and review, as it really helps us grow so that we can continue getting amazing guests on the show.

I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat  follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!

Until next time, stay safe and have a great week!

Episode Transcription

Michael LeBlanc 

Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada. 

 

Leadership Coach, Keynote Speaker and author, Likky Lavji can speak to the power of vulnerability and trust in leadership. When it comes to being a business leader and building incredibly cohesive teams, Likky is inviting the world to get familiar with what they have yet to see, their blind spots. 

 

In this episode of The Voice of Retail, Likky calls on his years of personal and professional experience. We talk about finding life's purpose, the importance of listening, and his new book, 'Death by B.S.' 

 

The time that we've lived in, whether it's political leadership, or business leadership, how would you rank them? You know, A, B or C as, as leaders? How do you think we did so far? What would you rank it, if you were you know, you mentioned school, you give him an A, B, C? Or, maybe, maybe give us an F, have we learned anything?

 

Likky Lavji 

Yeah. I want to, I want to say yes, and to that answer, because there's I need to break into two. The business leaders, I give them an A. They, the ones that I've spoken with, the ones I've talked to, they've showed up, and I give them an A.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Let's listen in now. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Likky, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing? 

 

Likky Lavji 

I'm doing great, Michael, thanks for having me on here. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Well, it's great to hear your voice. You and I met at the intersection of, in Vancouver, I was in your hometown at a conference. We have Michelle, to thank for that from, from Blue Star, it was a Blue Star event. So, that's when we first met and that was, I guess that's now 2018. So, way overdue that we touch base. Way, way overdue. And then we also have something else in common, right? That we discovered pretty quickly. I thought you, it was funny, I remember that, that afternoon. And I said that you look so familiar, but I can't quite place it. You remember what we had in common beyond Michelle?

 

Likky Lavji 

Yeah, my cousin. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Right, Nazir 

 

Likky Lavji 

Nazir,

 

Michael LeBlanc 

It's so funny. You know, talk about a small world. We've kind of jumped right in, but for the listeners who don't know of you or don't know enough about you, and, and all that great stuff, certainly as much as I might. Tell us about yourself. Tell us about your background, a personal professional journey and what you do for a living today.

 

Likky Lavji

Wow, so do we have like three hours to do this? You know, I, it's funny, I call myself a recovering entrepreneur, and recovering, recovering addict from just working way too much. And, I think this is my seventh stint. I'm into a business. I'm launching a new, new journey for myself. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Wow.

 

Likky Lavji 

My background really is IT. I used to be in the IT world. Interesting enough, people say well, then you must know a lot about IT.  I go, well, not really. I wasn't the IT world. But I was always coaching and consulting businesses and people on how to be better. I never realized that until I saw the IT company, then I figured I should become a coach. And that's the impetus of me being where I am today.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Interesting is kind of the your moment of clarity about what you actually did. And was it a matter of an intersection for you of the, of the personal and professional, in other words, you you really like this aspect of leading companies rather than closing the deal? I mean, some people just, you know, they jam on closing the deal or launching a new product, but it's, it, was it your case that you discovered, that you discovered that you like to help people lead?

 

Likky Lavji

I think, I've always helped people lead, but what really transpired for me when I sold my IT company was the, waking up eight days after in Mexico, depressed. Like, literally had no purpose in life anymore because I sold what I did. I wasn't interacting with people, and had no idea. 

 

So, I reached out to my good friend Bob Burg, the author of 'The Go-Giver', I said, Bob, 'I'd love to start talking about your product and helping others coach around this'. And he goes, 'well come on down to Mexico, to Orlando, and will, we have a speaker’s training program and a coach's program', and I said, 'Well, I can't be a speaker'. And he said, 'What do you mean?' I said, 'Well, I have a stutter' He goes, 'Oh I, okay, I hear that. But how about, about a coach?' I go, 'Sure'. 

 

So, I go, I literally go down to Orlando right from Mexico. I do a three-day workshop with them. And on the last day, he'd asked me to stand up and he goes, he starts acknowledging me for the person that I am, kind, gentle, warm, trusting. Then Kathy his partner does the same thing. And then the third person, the fourth person, and I'm in tears. And this is like seven years ago. A grown man standing in Orlando in front of 10 peers in tears. And Bob's going, 'What's going on?' I'm going, 'I've never heard these words before'. And he goes, 'I invite you to think that you've never listened to these words'. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yeah, interesting. 

 

Likky Lavji 

So, okay, so we finished. The 10th person finished, I sat down with a sense of relief. That evening, I took a flight back from Orlando to Dallas. I'm talking to a passenger for two hours. And, I quickly realized it was without a stutter. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Hmm, wow. 

 

Likky Lavji 

Yeah, so I get home and I tell my wife this and she starts laughing. She goes, 'Great it took ten strangers to tell you listen to what I've been trying to tell you for years." 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

That's frustrating. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

It really is. But you know what hit me there, Michael was, I was holding on to a lot of crap. I was holding on to a lot of my B.S. that got me there that I had to do work to figure out what it was. I wasn't listening. I wasn't ready to listen to the good that was coming my way. I was always good at hearing all the crap that was coming my way. But never the good. But, I had to go back and figure out when all this started. It started when I was 10 years old when I emigrated to Canada, Canada. Actually, Nazir is, picked me up from the airport. I actually stayed at his house. Cold February day.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

He Welcome to Canada. Yeah. Welcome to Canada.

 

Likky Lavji 

Yeah, exactly. And, but a few weeks later, we'd gone to Ottawa. That's where we settled for a little while. And my teacher had asked me to share my story about the journey of the immigration. And he, and I get up there, the kids started laughing me and one kid yelled, go back to where you came from. And, the life of Likky of a stutterer. And not belonging not good enough, started that day.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Wow, wow, what a story. Your story, you know, as I listened to it's, it's so inspiring. I didn't know the whole backstory. You're the second person I've talked to this week, in the format of my interviews, I interviewed gentleman named Rob Smith, and he spent a large part of his career at very, very senior levels in retail. But then it just wasn't working for him and, and he went and he did a session and he found his dharma. And, he left all that behind. And he started what he's called the fluid project, which is gender neutral, he came out of the closet and then and started this whole program. So, he another melding of, you know, discovering your path and discovering who you are, and taking your path forward. 

 

And, and one of the things we're talking about today is, is this great new book, 'Death by B.S.' We're going to get to the book in a couple of minutes. I have a question for you. 

 

Likky Lavji 

Yes. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

So, we've been living through this COVID era. But, as I've called it for the past, while we're still living through it for 24 months, it feels to me that it's been the ultimate test of leadership that, you know, no one really wanted, but there it is a long-sustained crisis. There's been so much literature on leadership. You've given so many lectures. You've talked to so many people. In general, not specific individuals, when you reflect on the time, the time that we've lived in, whether it's political leadership or business leadership, how would you rank them? You know, A, B, or C as, as leaders? How do you think we did so far? What would you rank it? If you were, you know, you mentioned school, give them an A, B, C? Or maybe, maybe give us an F? Would, have we learned anything?

 

Likky Lavji

Yeah. I wanna, I want to say yes, and to that answer, because there's, I need to break into two. The business leaders, I give them an A. They are, the ones that I've spoken with, the ones I've talked to, they've showed up, and I give them an A. The political, and everything else, because of the climate that has happened. I'm gonna give them a C. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Okay, 

 

Likky Lavji 

Right. Yeah, so that's kind of where I'm at. And the biggest reason I give the leaders an A, most of them showed up, and they became raw and vulnerable.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Hmm. You know, I was reading, I was reading a recent study, and I think it was the, it was a trust survey. And, what I found interesting, kind of reflects what you said, was that they ranked sources of information by who you trusted the most. And I was intrigued to see that business leaders, the companies you work for, were more trusted sources of information than many other types of media. And do you think that's a flaw? Or do you think that's reflecting the fact that business leaders did what you describe, they stood up and they've, they've built tremendous credibility with, with their stakeholders and with society? Because, you know, it's sometimes, you're on the fence a little bit about business leaders, and you know, they're in it for themselves. Businesses are, you know, are they part of that, you know, we know retailers are a big parts of the community, but there's some skepticism here and there, but it sounds like you, you whatever, that get, overcame, that they've got themselves to a place where there's more trust than less in their credibility. Would you agree?

 

Likky Lavji 

I totally agree. You know, for example, for myself, I'm a keynote speaker. So, you know, I get on stage. Apparently, everybody trusts me. I know what I'm talking about. It just a given fact that I know what I'm talking about. But I still like to build trust and it takes a while. You know, I may be on stage for 45 minutes, but as a leader, the moment you get vulnerable and really connect with your people, there's a trust that's built that can't be lost.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Hmm. Interesting. So, interesting. 

 

All right, well, let's turn our minds to this great boo, 'Death by B.S., Navigating Your Blind Spots to become a Better Leader'. I first want to talk about the tradecraft of writing the book, you know, in other words, why did you write it? Did you think there was a gap on the shelves? Did you, was it a personal mission, I've just got to get this thing out of me? And, you know, talk a bit about why you, why you wrote the book and why you thought it was, it was necessary.

 

Likky Lavji 

Interesting. So, this is all a COVID reaction. The book wasn't supposed to be written for another couple of years. I was still doing some studies and research around how to execute around blind spots. I've been speaking on this topic for a few years. But honestly, last year, when I started going into organizations and talking about building trust and vulnerability, you know, I do a lot of work with Patrick Lencioni, his 'Five Dysfunctions of a Team to get High Achieving Results'. But boy, it would, I would leave that organization and stuff just wouldn't happen. 

 

They'd be excited while we're doing it, they want to do it, but they wouldn't, it wouldn't happen. I go into sales teams and, and train them on value and conversations using Bob Burg's methodologies about giving value and building relationships, and they'd be excited wanting to do it. And I'd tell him some takeaways to do. And they'd be, 'Great, we'll do it.' And I'd follow up and nothing got done. And, that was frustrating. So, I said, I need to put this in writing somehow, and just make people realize that they have their own blind spots that are in their way. So, I started blurting away, and I started writing and reading and ottering and putting onto voice recorders, and then got a couple of editors. And we've put it together and got the book out in three months.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Wow. That', I've talked to different authors about their process I'm so, I have so much admiration for authors as I barely have time to read books, let alone write them. But, you know, some authors I've talked to say, they write and write and write, and then edit down. And then you know, kind of like a Russian dol, they find at the center of that the core of the book, I've talked to others who start with a single one page and practically work their way up, you know, here's on the page, what do I want the book to do. Which, do either of those approaches, describe your, your tradecraft, or how you approached it?

 

Likky Lavji 

Well, I was I was lucky. I was fortunate because I've been speaking on this topic for a few years. So, I had all my keynotes write up already. And then I had an incredible team working with me to help me edit. I am not a writer, like literally, you know, if you see my emails, they're junk. Because, I don't, I don't, I'm not a writer. And I say that. So, if you want a good professional email, don't expect it from me, you'll get, you'll get to the point. And, there might be some typos and grammars, but I will make the point. But I had two incredible writers and one of the writers that really helped me, or two big writers that helped me out, one was my daughter. She read the book and she goes, 'Dad, this is not your voice'. So, she put her voice, which is my voice, into the book,

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Right.

 

Likky Lavji 

And then my wife and then a really good friend of mine, CJ, put it together and it really put, put it all together. Shannon actually helped me, she's one of my editors and marketing person, she actually helped put it all together initially. And then, with the team of four it landed the way it's supposed to land.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Take us through the, the concepts of the book so, 'Death by Blind Spots' What, what are blind spots and, and take us through the, the essence of the book to give folks listening a sense for, for your approach. And then, I want to get into the book itself because it's more than a book. It's an active workbook, which I think is really, is really amazing. But talk about, talk about the B.S., your title is telling us about.

 

Likky Lavji 

You know, it's funny, so I'm just gonna share a small story on this because it might land easier than, than me trying to explain it. A couple years ago, I was in New York doing a course on public speaking and I had built this cohort of five people. And, I asked them I said, 'How do I show up when I walk into a room?' And they kind of chuckled and they go 'Well, Likky, you show up as a pompous blank'. And I said, 'Okay', and you know, if I would have refused that, or fought that, they would have just shut down. But I said my, my initial comment to them was, 'Interesting. I'd like to hear more about that. Tell me.' they go, 'Likky, you love to dress up'.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yes, you are a sharped dressed man you are a,

 

Likky Lavji 

Thank you, and I love that, I love dressing up. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yeah.

 

Likky Lavji 

But, I also, I didn't know this, I didn't, but I also don't smile enough. So when I walk into a room all dressed up, not smiling, it looks and feels like I want to own the room and be pompous. And, I don't want to be that. Now, that's a huge blind spot for me. So, when somebody else told me that, I took it to heart. Now, when I walk into a room, I literally smile so hard that my, my jaws hurt because I have a hard time with that. And, 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Right,

 

Likky Lavji 

I know why,

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yeah,

 

Likky Lavji 

Because I think I had bad teeth, and everybody else says, 'No you don't'. But, 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Right. Interesting.

 

Likky Lavji 

There's, these are blind spots. You know, when we're driving, we check our blind spots every day. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yeah, yeah, interesting.

 

Likky Lavji 

As human beings, we, we're not used to checking your own blind spots. We don't, like if I asked you right now, Michael, look in the mirror for two minutes and pick out what you see. You'd have a hard time lasting 30 seconds.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yeah. And you know, I talked to a lot of interviews, I interviewed and talked to a lot of people and self-reflection, particularly, you know, it's funny, some people the hardest question that I, and, I asked sometimes just tell me about yourself. Like the first question of the interview, because, you know, some people just aren't, aren't used to, aren't comfortable with. Maybe they haven't told her story before. And they're all interesting and really fascinating. But, it really resonates with me. 

 

And that's a nice segue into talking about the format of the book, because it's not a, it's not a book that you page through, read it and put down. And, I think this reflects, as I listen to you, it reflects your frustration with great thoughts that don't get executed. But also, it feels like when I went through this book, that you wanted to give people a tool to just get them over what you just described. That, you know, help me, help you kind of thing. Is, was that your thinking? and describe how you do that in the book for the, for the listeners?

 

Likky Lavji 

Yeah, Michael, that's a great, that's a great catch on that. Because, when I do coaching with executives, and it takes a few sessions to get to the blind spot trust, and we have these incredible, you know, six, eight month coaching contracts, and we work through blind spots. But, I can't get in front of a lot of people that way. And I wanted to find a way of a medium to do this. And I thought, okay, what if I just shared my story. So, I started in keynotes. But, that wasn't enough, because you wouldn't attend my keynote and you wouldn't find it. So, I thought putting in a book, by sharing my stories, and some small biases and some things that actually stand out for a lot of common people, we can just put it in there, putting an exercise into place, you'll start realizing and reflecting yourselves, as you take this journey in the book.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

There is a lot of part of the book, in the in the latter half about conflict, talk about conflict, in, you know, in the workplace, in our lives. I mean, it feels like a little bit of conflict moves us forward, but too much conflict holds us back. And people are, you know, comfortable with different levels of conflict. Some just want to avoid it entirely, some chase it, for one reason or another. Talk about your perspectives around conflict.

 

Likky Lavji 

To me, conflict is a conversation. A fight is a fight. Conflict is just a conversation. But what we have a hard time with is understanding the language the other person needs to hear. Sometimes we're speaking English and the other person's hearing German. And once we understand what the other person's style of their blind spots are, and what I've done is not in this book, this is a part of the second book that I'm working on right now is the eight different styles that are available for blind spots. And, for example, I'm a connector in the study, we have this assessment, and I show up as a connector. My wife is a peacemaker slash analyzer. We've been married 31 years, bless her soul, I don't know she's lasted this long with me. But honestly, you know, I would call her up and I'd say, 'Hey Sam, let's go on a holiday'. And she'd go, 'Yeah, great idea'. And then next day, I'd get this 30 page email from her about the sand we're going to be stepping on and the mountain and the volcano that's got, you know, 350 years old. And I'm like, I don't care. I just want to go on holiday. So, guess what, we never used to go on holidays because she got me way too much detail. And vice versa. I'd be driving around I'd see the 67 red Mustang. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yeah.

 

Likky Lavji 

I call her up and it's I talked about this car and she's like, 'Oh, there he goes again buying another car'. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yeah,

 

Likky Lavji 

And no, I'm just throwing stuff on the wall. But now, when I say, 'Let's go on holiday', her subject line says 'Hawaii, 12 days, X amount of dollars' and then the 30 page email.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Get the buy in first. Get, yeah, it's funny eh. You know it does, but it doesn't, I hope it doesn't need to take 30 plus years to get to that with your coworker. Like, is this, is this the fast, is the book the, so to speak, the fast track to getting to where you are now?

 

Likky Lavji 

Exactly. And that's, this is why I had to create this book. I said, 'Look, I don't want people to go through 30 years of their marriage like that'. And, you know, again, I say bless her soul. She had to live with me for 30 years, the way I was. My BS that was in the way. And, and I, and I, and Michael, you haven't asked me about my IT company. Boy, this book was literally, literally written as an apology to my ex, all these employees that had for 25 years. Because, I had an issue with trust. I had an issue of letting go. And, I wanted to put this in writing so that other leaders can realize that it's okay to be vulnerable, and it's okay to say, 'It is my fault'. And it's okay to let others lead and understanding where they're from. So, this book takes you in that journey of being self-reflective, and you may not have those issues. But, I haven't met a single person that doesn't have at least one blind spot.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Yeah, I can, I can imagine. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

And let's talk about your advice and if you could, it's not a fair question to ask you to distill this book into a couple of little pops of advice, but I'm going to frame it in this way. So, for the listeners, around the work you do, leadership, understanding your blind spots, and leadership is harder than it ever was, in some ways. Today, leadership by Zoom is a whole other thing. It's hard to lead teams des perter, or other words. Two starts and one stop. In other words, for the listeners, two things they should start doing if they're not doing them today. And one thing they should probably stop doing. Maybe they're not doing it today, maybe, you know, maybe it is just awareness of something that, that, you know, don't ever get into this habit. What would those be?

 

Likky Lavji 

My biggest takeaway to leaders right now is ask your team, or the people that really care about you, how do you show up? And listen to it, and act on it with the intention of being a better person. That's the first thing.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Is that harder now than ever before? I mean, sometimes how you show up is a little square on a screen. Like, or am I just oversimplifying it, tell me tell me about that.

 

Likky Lavji 

I can tell you how you show up on this phone call. And I haven't even seen you yet. We don't need to be physically present to see how you show up as a person. You just need to be able to have a conversation with people to see how they show up. But, the people that know you really well, your team knows you well. And, if you were to ask them, I would highly recommend don't ask your wife or your partner, because that will be a totally different conversation. And, I don't want to go into divorce court and that kind of stuff. But, ask you a team, ask you a cohorts. How do I show up? But what's your first impression of me? Because, I want to be a better human being. Most leaders won't even ask that question. And then the ones I do, will they do anything about that? So, that's the first start, you start with that. That's your journey of self-awareness and knowing thyself. 

 

And the second big thing is, find out what other's blind spots are, and speak their language. Prime example, like my wife, the analyzer and the peacemaker. Understand that she doesn't like change, fast change. Understand that she has to communicate with me, and be analytical. She needs an agenda. She needs to know all the details. Don't get frustrated with that, be aware of it. And once we're aware of other people's styles and blind spots, we can have an incredible cohesive team. You talked about conflict, that's when conflict goes away.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

All right, so what should we stop doing? It's, I can almost guess, but I want to hear, you know, something you come across often. And, it sounds like there's many things we do. But, if you had to pick that one thing that is seemingly innocuous, but is actually kind of harmful, what, what would you do?

 

Likky Lavji 

It's so simple. Stop ignoring yourself and stop blaming others.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

So, unpack that for me a bit. So, stop ignoring yourself is a bit of self-reflection, is that fair? But when you say, 'Stop ignoring others', is that kind of like, I'm just going to communicate the way I communicate. I'm not going to pause to understand how you, how you ingest or take the information, is that what you're, what you're getting at? 

 

Likky Lavji 

Exactly, so, what happens is, we, if we're ignoring ourselves, we're not understanding what our own blind spots are, and what our, what's, what our own B.S. is. And then, when we ignore others, or blame others, we're looking at them from a perspective of how we want to be communicated to. We have to listen to and how they're communicating, what they need to be communicated to as and meet somewhere in between.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Well, it's, it's wise advice. And again, the Death, the book is, 'Death by B.S.'. So, where can we learn more? Where can we find the book? And tell us a little bit about that.

 

Likky Lavji 

Well, the book was, the book is on Amazon as a best seller. It's 'Death by B.S.' Just look up 'Likky Lavji', L I K K Y L A V J I, or 'Death by B.S.' and it's on amazon.ca and amazon.com. And then, to get a hold of me it's likkylavji.com, or find me on LinkedIn. I'd love to have a conversation with you and help you out.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Well, fantastic. It was so great catching up with you. I saw that you had posted this book actually on LinkedIn. So, there you go, good networking. And I just had to say I had to reach out and wanted to talk about the book and tap into your wisdom. So, thank you so much for, for coming on the podcast with me and sharing these insights. And, as someone who's got the book, I'd encourage everyone to pick it up and much continued success. Congratulations on your success. And I look forward to seeing you 'IRL', as the kids would say, 'In real life' shortly or, you know, on the, on the, on the speaking tour, however, we meet again. So once again, Likky, thanks for joining.

 

Likky Lavji 

Michael, thank you for having me on here and thank you for all that you do for the community as well.

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Thanks for tuning into today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure and follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you enjoy podcasts, so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating and review as it really helps us grow so that we continue to get amazing guests onto the show. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co. 

 

Michael LeBlanc 

Until next ti