The Voice of Retail

Future Consumers in the Quasi-Post-Pandemic Retail World: Kristina Rogers, EY Global Consumer Leader

Episode Summary

Kristina Rogers, Global Consumer Industries Leader, Retail for EY, is back on the podcast with an update from their Future Consumer Index looking at the quasi-post-COVID, inflation battered but more resilient and agile customer retailers face for the back half of 2022 and beyond.

Episode Notes

Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.

Kristina Rogers, Global Consumer Industries Leader, Retail for EY, is back on the podcast with an update from their Future Consumer Index looking at the quasi-post-COVID, inflation battered but more resilient and agile customer retailers face for the back half of 2022 and beyond.

Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail.  If you haven’t already, be sure and click subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week, and check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and the Food Professor podcast.  Last but not least, if you are into BBQ, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbeque, with new episodes each and every week!

I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat  follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!  Have a safe week everyone!

I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat  follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!  Have a safe week everyone!

 

About Kristina

Global leader for consumer industries. Marketing strategist. Worked in 20 countries. Harvard MBA. Photographer. Scuba diver. Canadian fiction reader. Mother of two.

As EY Global Consumer Leader, Kristina is responsible for defining and implementing the EY strategy for consumer products companies and retailers. She ensures that EY’s global clients are well served across geographies, leading over 30,000 EY professionals worldwide. Kristina works directly with clients on the strategic issues they face as they pursue their rapid global expansion and is the Global Client Service Partner for a major consumer products company.

Prior to her current role, she served as Emerging Markets Leader for Consumer Products & Retail. Before joining EY, she was a senior partner at a global strategy consulting firm.

Kristina has lived and worked in more than 20 countries. Over the course of her career, she has built long-term client relationships with some of the world’s largest global consumer products companies, helping them solve some of their most complex strategic marketing issues across geographies.

 

About Michael

Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated on thought leadership panels worldwide.  Michael was recently added to ReThink Retail’s prestigious Top 100 Global Retail Influencers for a second year in  2022.

 

Michael is also the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts, including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus the Remarkable Retail with author Steve Dennis, Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois.  Most recently, Michael launched Conversations with CommerceNext, a podcast focussed on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers - all available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music and all major podcast platforms.   Michael is also the producer and host of the “Last Request Barbeque” channel on YouTube where he cooks meals to die for and influencer riches.

Episode Transcription

Michael LeBlanc  00:05

Welcome to The Voice of Retail, I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with the Retail Council of Canada. On this episode, Kristina Rogers, Global Consumer Industries Leader. Retail for EY, is back on the podcast with an update from their Future Consumer Index, looking at the quasi-post-COVID, inflation battered but more resilient and agile customer retailers face for the back half of 2022 and beyond.

Kristina Rogers  00:30

Well, you're right. So, thank you for paying attention. We have, we have seen change. So, you know, there was a part, you know, there was, I would say, a few cycles of research ago, where I think. And we might have discussed this back in November, even where, you know, people had been at home, and they realized how much stuff they had. They realized how much stuff they had that they didn't need. And being at home, they also realized how much waste they created. Because you know, if that waste was not distributed at the office, at the gym, at school, right in the coffee shop, or what have you, it was just, you know, whole families were filling up their garbage bins, (crossover talk), you know, dailies.

Michael LeBlanc  01:12

Let's listen in now. Kristina, welcome back to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing, my friend?

Kristina Rogers  01:20

I'm doing great, great. Hi, Michael, it's always a pleasure to be here with you. It's always a good chat.

Michael LeBlanc  01:26

Yeah. Well, it's great to hear your voice. So, you and I first met in Vancouver in person, I think. And then over the COVID year, I've been so fascinated by tracking your, your study and the work you do, because it has just been, you know, i-,i-, it helps me and I think helps the retailers and everyone listening understand how consumers behaviors are fundamentally changing. Yeah, so, (crossover talk), -

Kristina Rogers  01:49

That's what I have been thinking that too, - 

Michael LeBlanc  0:150

Even been 2018. 

Kristina Rogers   01:51

It could have even been 2018, (crossover talk), - Well, thank you, that's, that's a great compliment. And yes, we did meet in Vancouver, but I, I lose track of when that was, I think we all have the pandemic time-, timeline brain that we've lost a couple of years. So, yeah, maybe that was three years ago, I'm not sure. But yeah, (crossover talk), - 

Michael LeBlanc  02:00

I, you know, it's so funny say that. I think it was 2019, it could have (crossover talk), -

Kristina Rogers  02:10

I'm thinking 19, - 

Michael LeBlanc  02:12

I think it was 2018, But, and, and then the time just two years, it just disappears. Like we, we stepped in some kind of time tunnel, right? 

Kristina Rogers  02:14

Absolutely. 

Michael LeBlanc  02:22

It's just crazy. All right, well, listen, you've been on the podcast a couple of times before, I had the pleasure of chit and chatting, but briefly. For those who may not have heard those, those first couple of interviews, tell us about yourself and who you work for and what you do. 

Kristina Rogers  02:35

Well, thank you, Michael. I’m Kristina Rogers, Global Consumer Leader at EY. And you know, that's a role. So, this role covers consumer products, retail, and food and agribusiness. And my primary responsibility is to set the global strategy for EY in these sectors. So, thinking ahead, to next and beyond, on behalf of our clients. And then thinking through, what does that mean, for our approach as EY capabilities, solutions, investments in technology, and anything, anything else we might need to bring together in these sectors for EY to win and for our clients to win as we partner with them, (crossover talk), go ahead, -

Michael LeBlanc  03:15

You and I have talked about the tradecraft of how you do your job, but I don't think we've, I've asked you like, kind of structural issues like, do you have a team? Do you and like, at what level do you take this knowledge and then impart it to your counterparts or impart it to their clients, they can talk for a few minutes about how you create content. And that's what we're going to talk about in the content, then how you let's say distribute-, distributed or disseminated or actually makes it, makes it, you know, valuable to both your partners and, and the clients around the world?

Kristina Rogers  03:45

Sure, well, I definitely have a team and I guess what was a good, good news for us as a team, good and bad. It's a very globally distributed team. So, the way in working that kind of hit a lot of people, you know, as the pandemic came on, was exactly the way the global team was working, you know, over time zones at home. You know, phone calls, we didn't do as much video. So, yeah, there's a global team that works on this and we have teams in markets. So, we have sector teams in markets, people who are responsible for driving the agenda and driving the strategy in our priority areas in markets. And then we work very closely, you know, with our account teams, ensuring that we understand the agenda of our clients, making sure that we're on the right track, making sure that we're even one step ahead, so that we can bring ideas, content solutions, ideas for partnering to our account teams and into our, our clients.

Michael LeBlanc  04:44

Last time we spoke was November 2021. And I guess I you know, we're just talking about the time tunnel of COVID is kind of like dog years or cannabis years, they all seem to move pretty quickly. Just before we get into, dive into the EY Future Consumer Index latest results. Talk about what you're thinking around what big three things have kind of changed, if, if any? And you and I've talked about this, the difference between the short-term accommodations versus, versus structural. But as you and your team members and the partners around the world are thinking, what should retailers be really, be thinking about, that has changed fundamentally, if anything?

Kristina Rogers  05:24

Yeah, and I think there has been a lot of change even since we last spoke. And that was probably a nice inflection point, because we were kind of coming out of things, (inaudible), right? And so, we were having different sorts of conversations with our clients, that's for sure, in terms of preparing to either a new normal or back to normal. I would say, one thing that, you know, we've been talking a lot about is really the post pandemic shopping behavior. So, what has stuck and what hasn't. And what I mean by this is, I think there are categories in inventory, you know, that are now on a past purchase list, right? Something that consumers just automatically replenish; they don't want a physical shopping experience around it. They have little need to, quote, "shop that category" in a t-, traditional way, or spend time learning much about it. And so, you could imagine that half the grocery list now, right, it's on past purchase in eCommerce. Auto replenishment, (crossover talk), -

Michael LeBlanc  06:15

It is another way of saying that replenishment. It's kind of just I just want to replenish I just, - 

Kristina Rogers  06:19

Yeah, yeah and I also don't want to engage, right, -

Michael LeBlanc  06:21

Right, right, - 

Kristina Rogers  06:22

So, I think it's not just, it's the convenient replenishment, it's just like, these are categories that the kind of (inaudible) I don't need to know about new brands necessarily, I'm not going to be that interested to go out and look for new and improved. I just, you know, I don't care, I'm, I'm just, you know, buying those things, (crossover talk), -

Michael LeBlanc  06:28

That's trouble, -   

Kristina Rogers  06:30

Right, so, - 

Michael LeBlanc  06:39

That's, that sounds like that sounds like good news, bad news. The good news for those that have been chosen, the bad news for incumbents, no?

Kristina Rogers  06:46

Yeah, I think so too. So, I think there's, we've got to do a lot more of unpacking of that behavior and what it means so and what we have done some analysis on what's landing on the quote, "I just want to buy it", right, I don't care that much about it, I don't want to engage. And I'll put it on past purchasing auto replenishment if I can, right. And then you know, there's other categories, which people are still much more emotional about, they're inclined to shop and buy shop by me, they want to engage with the product or category, they want to understand and experience it. They're eager to learn more about it, they will keep tabs on maybe what's coming up as new, (crossover talk), -

Michael LeBlanc  07:20

Open to new ideas, - 

Kristina Rogers  07:21

Yeah, engage with that, (crossover talk), -

Michael LeBlanc  07:22

Open to new suggestions.  Yeah, right on, -

Kristina Rogers  07:24

Online or in-store, wherever it may be. They're just engaged with it. So, you know, we're starting to see that sort of sort itself out. And especially for you know, physical retail, I think it really, forensically assessing by the inventory mix of what is shopped, and what's more mindless, mindlessly bought, and maybe just on autopilot, I think will be critical. You know, as you think about your assortment, or what you do with things either in store or on your, on your digital channels.

Michael LeBlanc  07:50

You know, one of the things I've been thinking about is how consumers basically bought forward 18 months of goods. And now there's just less demand. But that, that felt like I think you and I even talked about this, eventually this party is going to stop, right? Eventually people are going to go back and in whatever quasi-post-COVID era we're in, they're going to travel again and go on vacations, (inaudible) you know, do services and, you know, they so, so they kind of drew forward a bunch of sales. And, and, is that, does that mix up the data a little bit? In other words, nobody's buying a cert-, you know, washing machine sales are collapsing. Yeah, because everybody bought one. 

Kristina Rogers  08:24

Right, - 

Michael LeBlanc  08:25

So, it doesn't really tell us anything about behaviors. It tells us more about this weird buy forward, (crossover talk), - sort of buying forward or pantry stuffing or that sort of thing? Well, I think, you know, we've been looking at more of the fast-moving consumer goods. So, less than your part, durable, like that. But I think it's more around. You're right, there might be some pantry stuffing and that sort of thing that, but I do think some of that. And, and of course, because of inflation, some of that returned, -

Michael LeBlanc  08:49

Sure, - 

Kristina Rogers  08:50

Because people weren't sure what things would cost next month, right, that was kind of a really steep, and rapid acceleration of, of prices for, for a while there. But I think we've been looking at the data long enough. And we've been, sort of we had the hypotheses, around this even before the acceleration of online shopping, especially the online grocery shopping in North America. And so, we've kind of been just monitoring the hypotheses and how we've been thinking about it and seeing what happened through the pandemic and where it's coming out now. And I think there are some clear patterns of types of, of the categories that people just have less interest in engaging with.

Michael LeBlanc  09:27

So, interesting. All right, well, let's talk about the Future Consumer Index. Again, for those who may not have heard earlier, just describe the index, its scope and, and its objectives. So, they know what we're talking about in terms of this, this research.

Kristina Rogers  09:41

So, this research was launched at the end of April in 2020. And it was launched globally in 15 countries to put a stake in the ground really as to what was happening to us as people and as consumers, as all, of, the, the global hard lockdowns began. Because you know, I'm a person, I'm a consumer and it was clear that something was happening, right. So, to us, our family, our household. And so, we quickly wanted too, to get something out there that we, we, would be able to track people's changing behaviors, sentiments. What was happening. And we didn't know how long we'd be doing that for, clearly at the very beginning, but we certainly wanted to be doing our best to understand the changes that were about to become upon us.  So, since then, we've launched 10 rounds of research, tracking consumer sentiment, throughout the pandemic, and then post-pandemic to really understand, you know, as I said, you know, what sort of behaviors did we adopt that are sticking around? Or what things are, we've dropped now that we're kind of getting back to normal, but you know, what has really changed? So, you know, we're trying to really understand some of these changes, both in our behaviors, our sentiments, our expectations, that, you know, in terms of where we are, you know, two and a half years later. And so, the latest research took place in early June, this year and covers 18,000 respondents from 24 countries, we've, we've, (crossover talk), managed to up the number of, - 

Michael LeBlanc  11:07

Including Canada, right, - 

Kristina Rogers  11:09

Yep, in Canada, absolutely. And, you know, trying to get a real 360-degree perspective on just how we're changing, you know, or, and, and what we're thinking about the future, if that's possible. Since we last spoke, since probably the last iteration of the, of the survey, a couple of things have happened, war in Europe, first of all, -

Michael LeBlanc  11:22

We're in some kind of quasi-post-COVID. You know, it's still around, it might come back, but it's still, it's still has some impact. And then you've got inflation, which for many consumers, and in fact, many retailers, you know, there's a generation of us that hadn't really dealt, you know, what's the playbook for a high inflationary environment? We don't really know. So, are those some of the things that, that, could have influenced how folks have responded? And what are the kind of top things you learned out of this round of the research?

Kristina Rogers  11:55

Well, we absolutely asked about the war, because it had been going on for a few months, by the time we were in the field, and inflation. I think we'd had a few, a couple of months. It, it peaked, I guess about a month later. But yeah, so we did, certainly we, we asked about those things. And you see, of course, differences, right? Globally, in Europe, the war is much more prominent in terms of people, people's minds. But you know, one thing that I just, even looking across the data. So, we've got all these things, we thought the pandemic would be over and, and, you know, we'd all go back to get kind of late 2019. But I think, you know, clearly, we ended up with inflation, the war and other, other, you know, things happening, you know, this year that weren't expected.

Kristen Rogers   12:01

And so, you know, having looked at our data and data elsewhere, and even speaking to clients, I think one thing that sticks out is that, for me, for retailers, you know, consumers now we can't be counted on, right, we used to have predictable routines around shopping and consumption, we used to stick to our beloved brands, and we maybe thought private label or store brands were only for low income families. And I think we've just kind of gotten used to needing to be ready for change, and we have changed. And so, I think, you know, retailers really need to be thinking through that. What does that mean? You know, we're now, we now accept almost that we don't have a comfort zone, (crossover talk), and we need to be ready for something new to be thrown upon us. And I think that affects the way retailers, you know, need to think about consumers, you know, retailers used to count on predictable seasons, - 

Michael LeBlanc  13:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, - 

Kristina Rogers  13:34

Predictable ways of shopping adherence to premium brands, and so on. But I think we're seeing now consumers are comfortable with changing things up, comfortable with changing patterns, comfortable with changing products brands, for whatever reason, they might need to, because they've been on edge and in a cycle like that now for almost three years. And so, you know, we're seeing we're seeing a lot more of consumers kind of ready, ready for change. Interesting. Were you, you know, one of those changes, I can think about the kind of, you know, the, the shock wave of demand, and then the, the sledgehammer of slowness is eCommerce. I think for some retailers and, and some observers the deceleration of eCommerce and a return to stores took them by surprise. Did, did you see any of the data and, and were you surprised with how fast eCommerce flatlined?

Kristina Rogers  14:25

I guess I'll refer to what I said earlier, or just a few minutes ago, about the cate-, some categories you know, have become those to be shopped and others to be simply bought. So, I think those things that people truly wanted to be out physically and shopping for, you know, where they wanted an experience. They wanted to linger, they wanted to gather information and wanted to compare and contrast in that case, I'm not surprised because I think there was probably pent-up demand for having those experiences for things that they emotionally cared about or categories they, you know, wanted to be part of, I guess. So, I'm surprised, I suppose I'm surprised by who is in the store and this is completely now anecdotal, Michael, so I'm off of our research per se. But I can say my households aligns with it. I mean, it seems to be younger people. And so, you know, I don't know if that's something to do, and maybe a welcome relief from digital life. But I also, (crossover talk), - 

Michael LeBlanc  15:23

That's my theory, youth who are getting off their phones and, and going shopping in shopping malls together to get away from the oppressive social media.

Kristina Rogers  15:30

Absolutely, I can see that amongst my children and their friends. So, I, I also wonder, Michael, if it's an escape from sort of the higher and higher delivery charges, right, for hyper fast delivery. I mean hyper fast and free is actually going to the store, right. So, -

Michael LeBlanc  15:45

Right, - 

Kristina Rogers   15:46

You know I, I think we can think of a at least in the United States, that particular grocery retailer that used to have free delivery during the pandemic, but now it's 10 bucks. So, - 

Michael LeBlanc   15:51

Yeah, yeah, -

Kristina Rogers  15:53

You know, there's, there's some of that going on, I can see from our, FCI data, or I could infer that, you know, while some segments of consumers, right, were forced into eCommerce during the pandemic, and, and maybe they hadn't used it before. And, and you know, maybe they were suspicious of it anyway, regardless of the convenience, you know, we can still see in the data that there are, you know, large chunks of the population globally, that are concerned about ID theft and fraud, but they're concerned about apps tracking their movements, they're concerned about sharing personal information. And so, it wouldn't surprise me that there's, you know, a good chunk of those people who said, you know, thank goodness, this is all over, I can get back into the stores, right. So, there's probably, a number of things going on. And even for those people that, you know, are just suspicious still of shopping online, you know, there's still the cost of delivery, which many people are, are having an allergic reaction to? And then, you know, more often than not, there's the not sustainable packaging, part of online shopping that I do think in some parts of the world. And I'm hopeful, more and more here, you know, we try to address and sort out.

Michael LeBlanc  16:08

You know, that's, that's a great segue into my next question, which was, you know, when I, when I looked at the headlines of the report, when I first kind of opened that email and downloaded the, looked at, the report, I was a little it was a little depressing, because it felt like consumers were doing this old habit of returning to the mean, you know, that I think the lead was, you know, just prices taking over from sustainability issues. But then on further reading, you know, as I delved into the report, it's a little more nuanced than that, right? How do you, how do you interpret what consumers are doing? You know, there i-, i-, it used to be the case that when the economy got more difficult the concerns or interest in buying or forwarding or focus on sustainability, or any of those practices went down? I have you seen any fundamental change? I see some change in your data. But talk, talk about what you see in terms of how consumers are thinking around sustainability ESG issues and, and the like?

Kristina Rogers  17:57

Well, you're right. So, thank you for paying attention. We have, we have seen change. So, you know, there was a part, you know, there was, I would say a few cycles of research ago, where I think and, and we might have discussed this back in November, even where, you know, people had been at home, and they realized how much stuff they had. They realized how much stuff they had that they didn't need. And being at home, they also realized how much waste they created. Because you know, if that waste was not distributed at the office, at the gym, at school, right in the coffee shop, or what have you, it was just, you know, whole families were filling up their garbage bins you know, dailies.  So, there was we certainly saw more interest and more desire for you know, to participate in, in buying things that were, you know, more sustainably sourced or had more sustainable packaging. But we definitely, to your point about a little depressing, we've seen, you know, because of I think inflation and we see that in the data, people find, you know, they're just concerned about, you know, their budgets, and they do find that it's expensive to buy environmentally sustainable products, I think something around 70% of those, that we, you know, researched say that really higher prices have deterred them from buying those kinds of products. But you do have mixed income levels, you know, in, (crossover talk), - 

Michael LeBlanc  19:21

Sure, sure, yeah, - 

Kristina Rogers   19:23

That data, but to your point about the nuance, there's some interesting things there. You know, we have seen people looking to reduce and reuse, and so, you know, some, some 79 or 80% of of those we talk to, you know, regularly try to recycle or repurpose products, and many of them are also saying that they are really trying to make an effort, to reduce food waste. Which is also of course a big problem. And, and with, with price increases and inflation, you would want to be doing that anyway, but it has a nice effect of, you know, creating a habit that we need to create in any case, (crossover talk), - what do you what do you what, what do you think what's going on in Europe because it's resonating here in Canada the, the discussion, it's been a long time discussion, the FMCG, Fast-Moving Consumer Goods around best before dates. So, in Europe, there's some walking away from best before dates, precisely, as you say, because it creates more food waste. Dr. Sylvain Charlebois, my partner on The Food Professor (inaudible) the research that Canadian said, no, I still like him. And I still want best before dates, and nested within all that is this idea of less food waste, because if prices are going up, maybe the impetus there is, you know, just buy what you need, as opposed to, you know, buy extra, and maybe that, that helps balance things out, maybe in the long run. That's not such a terrible thing, either right?

Kristina Rogers  20:44

Yeah, I, I, I think, you know, I would agree with the Europeans too, if I had to put my personal stamp on that, you know, best before dates are fine. But most, most things are good, well beyond the best before. And, you know, if you do what your grandparents told you to do, smell, smell, taste a little bit, you'll probably know if something's really not best anymore. But yeah, I think we've been really trained, certainly in North America, and maybe even more so here, where I am in, in Chicago and in the US, to be to be led that things are expired, rather than best before. And so, I do think, you know, some of these regulations, and some of the things that are out there around food waste, we do need to have a good look at because especially I think younger generations are really trained to pay attention to that and to believe that means expired.

Michael LeBlanc  21:33

So, maybe they i It's funny, right? Because on the one hand, the consumers are getting, I think, again, even looking at more, most of the recent data, they're more savvy, they're more agile, they're doing a bunch of things. You know it just, it's a funny sho-, choice of words, because best before doesn't mean deadly after, right. That's the kind of joke we have amongst ourselves like, the next day, (crossover talk), everything is so high.

Kristina Rogers  21:53

Maybe that should be, we should be replacing best before with deadly after I like it. I mean, I do think the interesting thing about what we see broadly with consumers, Michael, is that they do expect, despite a lot of what they say right around, I'll participate, I want to do my part I want, but they want it to be very easy. So, you know, consumers are not that interested (inaudible) large. I mean, there's obviously pockets and segments, but they're not, they don't want to go looking for a lot of data. They don't want to go, you know, spending time on things they want brands and retailers to, you know, help and to provide the information. And, you know, we even see that in our data where you've got almost three quarters of respondents feel passionately that companies should drive positive and social environmental outcomes. It's, it's unclear where they feel their own responsibility is. And they certainly you certainly see very strongly that consumers expect brands and retailers to provide information and the information that they need to make choices.

Michael LeBlanc  22:57

I guess, I guess there's risk and opportunity in that, right. Because if, if you're on the positive side, and, and you're doing the opportunity, you're taking those, those initiatives that you know, answer the questions. And you know, I interviewed Michael Medline and Mohit Grover from Sobeys. And they've got a comprehensive sustainability. And they're doing, you know, serious, you know, they were one of the first for example, to eliminate plastic bags, and like one step that got rid of 14 million plastic bags and, and I think it's for them, it's nested in their strategy, both, both morals, but ethics, but also practically, one of the things I love about your research is you don't just put a bunch of research out there you you draw from it, some insights or conclusions for the brands or for the retailers. So, out of this, you came up with four imperatives, talk about those?

Kristina Rogers  23:42

You know, there's a few things I'll say, if you don't mind me, a little plug first, Michael, -

Michael LeBlanc  23:50

Plug away, plug away, - 

Kristina Rogers  23:51

I would say, you know, just consi-, all of the work we're doing. Plus, looking at this research, I would say, you know, retailers really need to think about striving to create intimacy, invisibility, and in-, indispensability. And I say a little plug because at EY we call that the three I's of retail. And what, (crossover talk), I mean by that, (crossover talk), - 

Michael LeBlanc  24:09

What were again, say those again, -

Kristina Rogers  24:11

Intimacy, -

Michael LeBlanc  24:12

Yeah, - 

Kristina Rogers   24:13

Invisibility, - 

Michael LeBlanc  24:14

Yeah, - 

Kristina Rogers  24:15

And indispensability, - 

Michael LeBlanc  24:16

All right, okay, the I's, - 

Kristina Rogers  24:18

And the three I's of retail and what I mean by that is, you know, it takes great data insights to truly know me right and what I want it takes a lot of tech and operational efficiency for you to be invisible to me and it takes relevant assortment, services and logistics in the spirit of right thing, right time, right place for you to be indispensable to me. And that's a lot of work and investment for a retailer. But, (crossover talk), - 

Michael LeBlanc  24:44

Say, more about (inaudible) say more about invisible, unpack that a little for me.

Kristina Rogers 24:47

Invisible so, frict-, you know, rather than go down the frictionless route Michael. So, you know, it's invisible, you know, I, I wanted, I would like to use your services, I would like to buy from you, I would like to have, have delivery from you, I'd like to be in-store from you. But I don't want any friction about it, I want it to be invisible in my life, I want it to be easy. You know, I want to take any, any, I guess challenges or problems out of bringing the physical and the digital together. So, invisible in that sense, which is why I'm saying, you know, it leads, (inaudible) it's a lot of tech and operational efficiency to get that right. But, you know, I think this is the way we've been talking to some of our retail clients, and they get it, they understand what, what those pillars are, and how they could create really lasting loyalty from a consumer if you figure it all out.

Michael LeBlanc  25:41

Interesting. Isaac Asimov once said that great technology should be like magic, it just should happen. And it like it, (crossover talk), - 

Kristina Rogers  25:48

Oh, that's exactly right, - 

Michael LeBlanc  25:49

Right, I mean, if you transport yourself back to our parent’s generation where you, you just pick up the phone, and it works. If you go back two generations, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't always so and now you just expect it to happen, right? So, that kind of magic, that, that we can all make together. Okay, so, what were, what were some of those other imperatives that your research tow-, told you this time around? 

Kristina Rogers  26:12

Yeah, and so, we, we, you know, part of it gets back to that sustainability that we were talking about. So, really setting the, the company KPIs to really reflect the changing consumer values, and, and often that is around sustainability and what they want, you know, and I think, you know, we really need to work hard, we're working hard with our clients to help them think about what those those new KPIs are. And, and what does that mean for the organization. And, you know, retailers really need to work hard with brands and suppliers on, you know, figuring out how to deliver, because retailers are often you know, in between the brands and the consumers. But consumers do expect retailers to provide a significant amount of effort and information about products, packaging, and the direction they're taking around these things that consumers value. So, we're, you know, we're doing some work at the board level around just thinking about, you know, KPIs in this direction, that that really linked to, to what the consumer, you know, is, is emotionally wanting.

Michael LeBlanc  27:17

It's interesting that the phrase you use, I found that interesting, you know, that the, the retailers that between the brands and the consumers like, there's a great exploration or debate around the role of direct selling, and the role of retailers in some ways, the role of the, the no value added middle person, middleman in the middle of that is, is clearly the, the time is over. But at the same time, we see many direct brands starting to do traditional wholesale deals like Casper, for example, which has gone private and (inaudible), you know, a lot of these startups that were pure play, it's like taking the D out of DTC is my friend Simon Segal says, like, -

Kristina Rogers  27:56

Yeah, - 

Michael LeBlanc  27:57

Where do you, when you sit down with brands? You know, for a while, it felt like there's a big (inaudible), say, you know, what, you don't need the retail, it's just start selling direct. And, and I'm not sure, I'm sure in your meetings, there was the, the, great appreciation, but there's a lot of costs involved in that. And I'm not sure all consumers want to deal with 100 different brands, they just want to go to a grocery store, what do you, what do you think of all that? What do you make of all this stuff?

Kristina Rogers  28:18

Yeah, well, I think that does get back to really, you know, if I would think about, you know, what, retailers need to be thinking through whether they started off as D2C or that they started off just a physical and now they've moved into a, you know, a digital space plus a physical or, you know, what have you. I think it's one of your friends and the colleagues you work with Michael seem to have a lot of good phraseology. Because I think it's one of your colleagues who says the consumer is the channel now and I think that's true. And I think that's, you know, the, these organizations need to really embrace that, because it's the consumer that should be dictating how the business evolves, you know, where they want to be, you know, how they want to experience brands, what sort of assortment they what they're looking for, I mean, and I think we've probably touched on this in a previous podcasts where, you know, really, viscerally understanding where the consumer is going and, and what it is that, you know, they want and it used to be that it was one way traffic, right, the, you know, the brand or the manufacturer developed a product that they expected we wanted the retailer, put it on the shelf, and then we went and, went and bought, it (crossover talk), right?

Michael LeBlanc  29:36

Most of it failed, actually by the numbers, right? I mean, you know, -

Kristina Rogers  29:38

Yeah, - 

Michael LeBlanc  29:39

The numbers around new product launches. 

Kristina Rogers   29:32

Yeah, - 

Michael LeBlanc  29:33

Most fail, right? 

Kristina Rogers  29:36

You're better off, -

Michael LeBlanc  29:38

Now it's going in the other direction, - 

Michael LeBlanc  29:44

Sure, - 

Kristina Rogers   29:45

Michael, right? It's from the consumer back into, through to the, the retailer, maybe, maybe not, but through back into the brands, the manufacturers. So, it's a completely different model and direction of, you know, development or strategy or what have you. And you know, we've, we've talked a lot about that in our bag and food business, where we talked to it used to be farm, to fork. Right now, it's fork, back to farm, consumers are saying what they want, - 

Michael LeBlanc  29:52

Yeah, - 

Kristina Rogers   29:53

And they won't buy, you know, products brands that aren't what they want. 

Michael LeBlanc  29:57

Yeah, that's, that's a whole other exploration, that's fascinating stuff. All right, so, great exploration and I'll put a link in the show notes too. So, folks can go look at the research themselves and see the graphs and, and all that great stuff. What's next, I mean, looking ahead the next six to 12 months for you and, and how you're thinking about the continuing evolution? Will there be another iteration of the study, you said, we're not sure how long this thing is going to run, you're going to keep it going, you're going to keep the Future Index going through the future.

Kristina Rogers  30:46

We are, we're certainly making some amendments and adapting it, you know, away from you know, health and COVID and those related types of, you know, parts of the research that goes out, (crossover talk), -

Michael LeBlanc  30:58

Yes, please, let's hope, - 

Kristina Rogers   31:00

Yeah, well, let's move on. But we're what we're trying to do now is we have a body, you know, there's parts of that research. And it's a created nice, longitudinal set of data in different countries, which we can explore. And we're starting to just build on some of that. So, we're, we're starting you know, to think more about can we research people's expectations around digital life? 

Michael LeBlanc  31:15

What does that actually mean to the people of different, you know, generations and age groups, (crossover talk), - are you talking about them about the metaverse there? Are you, are you, thinking about, (crossover talk), - 

Kristina Rogers  31:29

Yeah, I mean, it's not I'm not, not I mean, we're not going to explore the metaverse, you know when a crazy big way, because there's, you know, it's, it's in certain places right now, and people are exploring it. And it was certainly much more, I would say, in our lives, and at least my work life earlier in the year. And then we had the War and COVID, sorry, and inflation and so on. It's kind of died down a little bit. But we know it's there in the background, and we want to, you know, start getting a pulse of, - 

Michael LeBlanc  31:56

Yeah, - 

Kristina Rogers  31:56

Yeah, who's, where who's, where with that. And, you know, maybe start to just try to understand some digital financial life. How are people really feeling about crypto currencies? And so, we're just getting our arms around that, Michael, to (inaudible) buttress you know, the, the longitudinal content and data, we have to see, you know, where can we explore next, because we want to certainly be moving away from pandemic and, and hopefully, you know, off inflation next year?

Michael LeBlanc  32:27

Well, as a quick side note, you talked about digital currency, was it I think, interesting. I wonder if you heard some of this back in the summer, here in Canada, one of the big providers, Rogers, you know, both mobile and, and all telephony went out, gone, (crossover talk), - 

Kristina Rogers  32:43

Oh, yeah, - 

Michael LeBlanc  32:44

Right. So, but what was interesting, what I thought was interesting about it was how cash became king for a couple of days. And a lot of retailers said, hey, you know, if we go all digital, we're out of business. And, and then sure enough, two weeks ago, all downtown Toronto's power got cut off by some boat in the harbor. And once again, cash was king. So, it's just, it's just the, you don't know what's coming around the corner, - 

Kristina Rogers  33:05

I am actually someone who’s planning, for planning, for technology. I've got cash in my wallet, Michael. So, I'm still one of those people.

Michael LeBlanc  33:13

Yeah, me too, man, I got to, I don't have it in the mattress. But I have more now since the summer than I used to carry around. Well listen, as always great to great insights, great conversation. Love what you bring to, to the market. And if people want to get in touch with you or learn more about you or are you a LinkedIn person, what's the best way to do that?

Kristina Rogers  33:31

Yeah, I am a LinkedIn person. I'm there. I, I tend to, you'll get you'll find more of the content from our work there. That I, that I put there and, and blogs that I kind of do occasionally where I've been looking at our data and thinking, oh, that's an interesting angle to it. So, yeah, absolutely. 

Michael LeBlanc  33:53

All right. Well, listen, continued success, continued safe travels when you do and or, you know, existing in the universe or metaverse when you do that, too. So, listen, thanks again, for joining me on The Voice of Retail, (crossover talk), - 

Kristina Rogers  34:04

Yeah, I'm not going to be in the metaverse anytime soon, Michael. I, I been, I have been there and I've, I wasn't that convinced yet. So, -

Michael LeBlanc  34:12

Been there, done that, got the, the T-shirt, (crossover talk), - 

Kristina Rogers  34:13

Been there, I guess I'll return later, maybe metaverse 2.0, - 

Michael LeBlanc  34:16

Maybe, maybe, anyway (crossover talk), - 

Kristina Rogers 34:18

All right, - 

Michael LeBlanc  34:20

Anyway, thanks again for joining me and have a great rest of your day. 

Kristina Rogers  34:21

Yeah. Thanks, Michael. 

Michael LeBlanc  34:23

Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure and click subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically, twice a week. And check out my other retail industry media properties, the Remarkable Retail podcast, Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and The Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. 

Michael LeBlanc   34:36

Last, but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my all-new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbecue with new episodes, each, and every week. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company and Maven Media. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow via LinkedIn, or visit my website at meleblanc.co. 

Have a safe week everyone.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

consumers, Kristina, Michael, retailers, buy, people, brands, pandemic, thinking, retail, consumer, talk, data, research, inflation, EY, categories, eCommerce