Meet Brain Corp CEO David Pinn, leader of an AI software tech company that powers the world's largest fleet of autonomous mobile robots operating in commercial indoor public spaces, including retail stores and warehouses. We spoke just before David was to join us in Toronto for the big Collison tech conference and gathered his thoughts on the current and future state of AI in retail.
Welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. I'm producer & host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is produced in conjunction with the Retail Council of Canada.
Meet Brain Corp CEO David Pinn, leader of an AI software tech company that powers the world's largest fleet of autonomous mobile robots operating in commercial indoor public spaces, including retail stores and warehouses. We spoke just before David was to join us in Toronto for the big Collison tech conference and gathered his thoughts on the current and future state of AI in retail.
About David
David Pinn joined Brain Corp 2017. As Chief Financial Officer, he was responsible for the Finance organization along with building and implementing growth plans and partnerships. David brings nearly two decades of experience managing finance, strategy, and corporate development for innovative technology companies.
Prior to Brain Corp, David was head of finance for Antenna79, a technology startup backed by L Catterton, the world’s largest consumer-focused private equity group. David was a founder of Snaptracs, Qualcomm’s consumer electronics subsidiary, and he led a number of acquisitions and divestitures within Qualcomm’s Strategic Finance group. Prior to his career in finance, David was an electrical engineer designing test systems for cellular, WiFi, and Bluetooth applications.
David earned his Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering from the University of Texas at Austin and completed a Master of Business Administration at the University of California, Berkeley, where he was a Mayfield Fellow.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada and the Bank of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience with Levi's, Black & Decker, Hudson's Bay, Today's Shopping Choice and Pandora Jewellery.
Michael has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated worldwide in thought leadership panels. ReThink Retail has added Michael to their prestigious Top Global Retail Influencers list for 2023 for the third year in a row.
Michael is also the president of Maven Media, producing a network of leading trade podcasts, including Canada's top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail. He produces and co-hosts Remarkable Retail with best-selling author Steve Dennis, now ranked one of the top retail podcasts in the world.
Based in San Francisco, Global eCommerce Leaders podcast explores global cross-border issues and opportunities for eCommerce brands and retailers.
Last but not least, Michael is the producer and host of the "Last Request Barbeque" channel on YouTube, where he cooks meals to die for - and collaborates with top brands as a food and product influencer across North America.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. My name is Michael LeBlanc and I am your host. This podcast is produced in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Meet Brain Corp CEO David Pinn, Leader of an AI software tech company that powers the world's largest fleet of autonomous mobile robots are burning commercial indoor public spaces, including retail stores and warehouses. We spoke just before David was about to join us in Toronto for the big Collision tech conference and gathered his thoughts on the current and future state of AI and retail. Let's listen in now.
Michael LeBlanc 00:37
David, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. Thanks for joining me.
David Pinn 00:40
It's a pleasure to be here. Michael, thank you very much for having me.
Michael LeBlanc 00:43
Well, yeah, we're talking in advance. It's the Friday before the big Collision conference, and you will be here in Toronto. Right now, where am I finding you?
David Pinn 00:52
I am here in sunny San Diego, California.
Michael LeBlanc 00:55
Fantastic and this is actually take two we had this big jet run right overhead, is that common? Like, whereabouts, are you? Are you near a fighter jet kind of place or is that an airport? Where are you? Where are you located?
David Pinn 01:08
Yeah, so we are just west of Miramar, which is very famous for Tom Cruise and Top Gun. So, every few minutes, we are greeted by some jets flying overhead, but hopefully we'll have clearer audio for the rest of the podcast.
Michael LeBlanc 01:22
All right. Well, there's some added, some added color to our conversation. Well, listen, let's, let's jump right in. Tell me a bit about yourself, your background and what you do for a living?
David Pinn 01:32
Absolutely. So, my name is David Pinn. I'm the CEO here at Brain Corp. I've been in the company for almost six years, and I've been in the CEO chair for about one year, actually I came into this field of retail automation through a fairly circuitous route, started my career as an electrical engineer in the semiconductor manufacturing industry, spent a number of years of Qualcomm in finance, but now I've had the pleasure of digging into the retail world and it's really just been a fascinating journey for me to understand the intricacies of retail operations.
Michael LeBlanc 02:06
Well, it is, it’s funny, because the name of your company will often say, in the advocacy world that, you know, retail is, is like brain surgery, sometimes not brain surgery, it's a little harder. It's kind of like rocket surgery sometimes, but what have you-, what's your observations about the retail industry? I mean, it's I always like talking to people who are new to the industry and serving the industry is, you know, it's not a stable kind of consistent place to be operating, particularly in the past couple of years, but, you know, when asked that the dinner party, what do you think of what's going on in retail, what's your, what's your observations with your background and diverse background and thinking about it from a supplier perspective?
David Pinn 02:46
Absolutely, yes. So you know, the thing that's really struck me about the retail industry is exactly as you describe how intricate the operations are, right, as a, you know, prior to joining brain Corp and being involved in in, in retail operations, that was a regular consumer, right, just show up to the grocery store, you take for granted the fact that everything that you might want to buy is on the shelf and then coming to realize from the other side, all of the steps and the delicate ballet that go into making sure that the right product is on the right shelf, at the right price is just, just an amazing, detailed orchestration that takes place and I've just been so fascinated by all the moving pieces that have to come together to make that happen.
Michael LeBlanc 03:28
Well, there's, there were not many upsides to the COVID crisis, but if there's one from an industry perspective, a lot of people, not just suppliers, like yourself have a better appreciation for how hard it is to do exactly what you just described and all the moving parts behind it. Well, let's talk about and I'll start with Brain Corp. So, talk about what the company does, the spaces you occupy and what makes your organization stand out and remarkable in its field.
David Pinn 03:53
Sure, yeah. So, at its core, we're a robotics technology company. We help organizations automate commercial operations by utilizing robots, our tech powers, robots that operate in schools and warehouses, airports, hospitals, hotels, but we have a large focus on the retail segment. Essentially, we're helping retailers automate the aisles and what makes our company unique in this space is that we partner with leading manufacturers of manual equipment to help them create autonomous solutions and why we think that's unique and valuable is that we allow end customers to enjoy the best of breed technology from Brain Corp, but also the best of breed hardware, manufacturing and support from our partners and I think another thing that makes us unique and special is the scale at which we operate. We have multiple robotic applications across multiple OEM partners, and we'll talk more probably throughout the podcasts about the different applications that we go into, but, you know, we're just really excited about the scale that we're able to bring to the retail segment.
Michael LeBlanc 05:02
So within the ecosystem if I, if I play the tape back a little bit, so I'm clear and the listeners are clear you're, you're software developers and AI experts rather than hardware, physical robot experts, you, you look for people who design and as you said we'll talk about it in a bit, the spaces you play, you look for people who are very good at designing physical products and you power them with your you know, with your software. Is that, is that a fair description?
David Pinn 05:27
That's exactly right. Yeah. So we partner, for example, with manufacturers of manual commercial cleaning equipment, and we help them turn those solutions into autonomous solutions.
Michael LeBlanc 05:38
Right. So, you're, you're selling not to the retailers, but to the people who are selling to the retailers, is that a fair statement?
David Pinn 05:45
Yeah, it's, it's a partially fair statement. So certainly, we rely on our OEM partners, the manual equipment manufacturers, as a sales channel and we also do sell directly to the retailers in terms of really providing them a suite of automation solutions, not only in the floor care space, but also in the shelf spanning space.
Michael LeBlanc 06:05
I see. So you, you might go to a retailer and say, listen, I can bring, I have several partners who can deliver the physical good, but we're gonna sell you so to speak on the, the application the solution to your problems, and we have two or three people who could be our partners in that, again, is that is that a good, you know, what would happen in a, in a relationship call with a retailer?
David Pinn 06:28
Yeah, we view ourselves as really automation consultants, for the retailers, helping them imagine how their operations can be assisted through robotic automation and exactly as you described, Michael, we partner with manufacturers that usually they're already working with on the manual side, and you can help them work together with their existing vendors to help empower a more intelligent operation in store.
Michael LeBlanc 06:57
Okay. Now, as I said, you're, you're in Toronto, actually, this, this podcast will be played after the Collision. So, you were in Toronto for the Collision conference. What brings you or what, what compelled you to go to a big tech conference here in Toronto and what kind of knowledge you shared with the audience, not a retail conference, per se, so I'm kind of curious what you hope to get out of your visit?
David Pinn 07:20
Absolutely. Well, this is our first visit to Collision. So, we, as a company, I am just very excited to be participating, meeting with leaders from across the technology landscape, you know, just getting inspired by all the ways in which technology companies are changing ways of working, changing different industries and so I'm really excited about it. What I'm going to be talking about specifically at Collision is about universal AI and the robotics revolution. And I'm on a panel together with Peter Chen, who's the CEO of Covariant and the two of us will be talking about how AI is being applied in the robotics space.
Michael LeBlanc 07:59
You know, since ChatGPT AI has burst onto the scene in terms of the popular conversation, but it's been a conversation amongst us and industry folks, for, for many, many years. I mean, you guys have been around since, what, 2009. So, this is not new ground for you, but let's talk about AI. So, it's certainly a big popular topic of conversation, now it's a big driver in retail, and you guys have been at it for a long time. What do you, what did I read, you have 26,000 robots in, in the field. So, you know, clearly a depth of experience, both in time and scale. Now, as you've been in this, and you as you said, You've been with the organization a few years, how the AI field evolved, as I perceive that there's been maybe a great leap forward, geometrically rather than arithmetically, so to speak, in the past couple of years, or is that just me just suddenly tuning in to what's been going on?
David Pinn 08:52
Certainly, the hype cycle is at its fever pitch right now when it comes to AI, I can definitely help decompress that for you. Yeah, so one thing is, you know, that 26,000 number obviously keeps growing. We're very delighted to be close, we're actually circling in on 30,000 robots out in the field deployed right now. So you know, that's something very exciting for us in terms of demonstrating the scalability of our solution, but to your point, if you kind of rewind the tape back to 2009, when Brain Corp was started, it was really a group of neuroscience PhDs, computer science PhDs getting together and using biomimicry, using the way in which the mammalian brain operates in order to create algorithms that learn by demonstration and one of the things that we're very proud of that we've been developing over the course of those years is one shot learning for the robots, right.
David Pinn 09:46
So, the way this actually manifests itself in the field is you have an autonomous floor cleaning robot. It actually looks just like a manual floor cleaning robot. Sorry manual floor cleaning machine tram-, the janitor hops on they drive around once to demonstrate to the AI system, you know the route that the machine to take the way in which the floor should be cleaned and the robot takes that one demonstration and kind of generalizes it and uses it to then play back day after day after day, that cleaning route, taking advantage of the learning that it received from that store janitor and so that's the that's the core technology in the core AI, that was the kernel of Brain Corps founding and is the kernel of our autonomous navigation solution.
David Pinn 10:36
To your question about how things evolve over time, now what we see of course, is huge leaps forward in terms of computer vision, robots being able to recognize and systems being able to recognize what they see in front of them. The classic hot dog, not hot dog from Silicon Valley, if you remember that, if you remember that episode and so where we've been able to take things, Michael is not just cleaning the floors, but you know, since we're going up and down the aisles anyway, we can point cameras at the shelves, and we can collect imagery and we can send that imagery through computer vision systems through image classifiers and detect exactly what's on the shelf and so using those breakthroughs, to really help retailers improve their on shelf availability, improve in general their execution of how they manage the shelf.
Michael LeBlanc 11:34
And is that the real objective or point of arrival of, of this AI powered technology where you put it in and you know, all the you work in basically three, I don't know if call verticals areas, floor cleaning, supply chain moving goods, and then shelf scanning, as you said, and each of those can be in its own way very dynamic environments, is that where the AI comes in that you, you teach it the first route, but then you know, some dog walks across the way or human is there or they move a shelf, is this, is this how you don't have to consistently retained these, these robots, or this this AI, is that where the, the artificial intelligence steps in or is that a point of arrival for your, for your products?
David Pinn 12:18
That's definitely where the AI steps in. So, the magic of the technology, right is that it's got a couple of inputs, right, one is the intention that was taught to the robot through that training process that I mentioned, right, one time drive around showing the robot the route that you want to take. So that one input is the, the training or the intention of what the robot is supposed to do, and then the other set of inputs is what's going on in the environment.
Michael LeBlanc 12:44
Right.
David Pinn 12:45
A dog walks past, right, you know, whatever might be happening at that particular moment, the robot through AI is able to create a representation of the world around it, and use that representation along with understanding the intention to create a plan and execute on that plan for you know, adhering as closely as possible to that training, while acknowledging that the environment is going to be different every single time that that route is run.
Michael LeBlanc 13:12
I was at a conference couple of years ago and there's a I think more just for show and demo, there's a little robot moving around with, with a tray full of coffee and my observation was every time anyone went near it, of course, it's a busy conference, it stopped because it was like a safety thing. So, the net effect was the robot didn't go anywhere, because there's always somebody within it's kind of diameter. How do you overcome something like that, so there's always somebody moving and of course, safety is paramount application, how do these three things, you know, safety, efficiency and machine vision, how do they interact and so I'm, I'm delving a bit deeper here, but I think I want, I want the listeners to kind of really understand how these things can work and what the future looks like.
David Pinn 13:54
Absolutely, yeah. So, safety, of course, is always paramount. That's the first criteria is that we need to have a safe system and we're incredibly proud of our safety record, of course. So that goes without saying but, you know, it comes down to human robot interaction, right, I mean, we want because our robots operate in and around the general public, it's really important to get those nuances right, about how the robot interacts, right, you know, the robot wants to give deference to people, you don't want the robot to get too close someone that they feel uncomfortable, right. So, dialing in those behaviors, so that the end consumer, which is really what this all, is all about. I mean, yeah, we sell to retailers, but us and the retailer, at the end of the day, want to create an amazing consumer experience for their shoppers and so ensuring that the robot is trained to behave appropriately around people is a big part of what we do.
David Pinn 14:49
You know, and then to your question about well, it's got a job to do. If people are in the way, it's still got to clean the floor. That's really where not just technology but also operational excellence comes into play. Thinking about change management thinking about how a robot fits in with the delicate ballet or retail operations that's going on around it is so important to the success of a program, right. So what time of day, should the robot clean the floors throughout time of day, should the robot go out and check the shelves, these are very important considerations and we've created not just this autonomous navigation technology, but also a set of as I mentioned, human-, human robot interaction behaviors, reporting functions, general change management capabilities within Brain Corp that really help retailers succeed not just with the robot itself, but creating a program around the robot that's going to be successful from an operational perspective and I think that's come through the lessons learned across the 30,000 robots that we've gotten in the field. Technology is a huge part of the solution, but there's so much more to it from an operational perspective to ensure success.
Michael LeBlanc 16:07
Talk a little bit about, I get, and I've seen the floor cleaning in application and the shelf scanning, I've seen several applications, I, I know less about the supply chain. So, talk a bit more about that go a bit deeper on that one, because I've seen some product movement robots. So talk, just talk generally about how you approach the complexities in and around supply chain and you know, is that, it would feel to me that that has some of the greatest potential of the three areas you're in, is that how you see it?
David Pinn 16:38
Yeah, so our focus today really is on robotic floor care and robotic shelf scanning and on the shelf scanning side is really where you get that big unlock on the supply chain side, you know, the things that we can do by analyzing a shelf, include, you know, improving on shelf availability, by detecting out of stocks, planogram compliance, price label accuracy, locating product in order to more efficiently down stock, or for omni-channel fulfillment, you know, helping people fill baskets faster and so there's a lot of use cases that come out of understanding what's going on with the shelf that really help unlock those supply chain improvements.
Michael LeBlanc 17:22
Now, I did see on your site that there were some machines moving boxes or goods in warehouses as part of supply chain, is that a development area for you, so, so it's not a big focus?
David Pinn 17:35
Yeah, so, so yeah, that, so that product is in pilot right now. It's not fully commercial yet, but we're very excited about that, you know, our overall strategy really is about helping to automate the aisle and what we mean by that is really looking at those parts of retail operations, where retailers are really struggling to find labor, or areas where they're just jobs that aren't really well suited to a person like that super detailed work of looking at every single price label and making sure that every single price label in the store is accurate, it's just not a job than the human mind is geared for.
David Pinn 18:12
And so we talk about, you know, dull, dirty, dangerous jobs, and really helping retailers to automate those jobs so that their employees can focus on what people are really good at, right, which is assisting customers, providing that customer service layer that really adds to the retail experience and so that's really our vision and, Michael, as you point out, one leg of that school of division is certainly moving products around within store, right, so from the back room, to the shop floor, you know, from the sales floor, into, you know, whether it's buy online, pick up in store, whether it's at home delivery. So that kind of goods movement in the store, we think, also is ripe for automation and so that's certainly a very exciting roadmap growth area for us in the future.
Michael LeBlanc 19:02
And it's interesting, because, as you know, when COVID hits, suddenly, a lot of retailers are doing curbside delivery and, you know, putting associates out in the parking lot isn't always the safest place for them to be because they're outside of the, you know, the four walls so I can see an application pretty quickly there. Let's, let's, let's finish off with advice, advice for retailers. So, they would be considering increasing their investment in robots, who isn't, you know, we, I think, as an industry see shortage of people and the implications around technology is very, very important. So, with the industry moving fast, so how do you not get tripped up, how do you not buy into a solution that then becomes, you know, back to the beginning of our conversation, retail moves pretty fast, AI is moving pretty fast. How do you, how do you guard yourself against, you know, buying into a technology that six months from today becomes yesterday's technology and talk about that a bit, future proofing, I guess we'd call it future proofing in another way, right?
David Pinn 19:59
It's a terrific question, Michael and I think, you know, for us, one of the main reasons why we focused our business model on creating an ecosystem is to enable that future proofing, right. So, Brain Corp very intentionally, is not a vertically integrated company. We partner with hardware manufacturers, as we discussed in the beginning of the podcast. For example, manufacturers have manual cleaning equipment, right and so we're helping those companies provide autonomous solutions, but that's an example of partnerships in an ecosystem that avoids vendor locking. On the other side, on shelf scanning, you know, once the robot’s done its job of collecting images, and doing the computer vision to understand semantically what's on the shelf, we have an ecosystem of partners that also helps on the other side of that to make sense of that data.
David Pinn 20:52
Okay, we've detected that a certain SKU is on the shelf, was it supposed to be on the shelf, what should be done about moving it around all that kind of business logic, we provide through an ecosystem of partners and so our goal in making sure that retailers feel confident that they're buying a solution that is future proof is ensuring that we've got this robust ecosystem of vendors for the retailer to choose from and oftentimes, what we find is very helpful is that we're already partnered with a solution provider that the retailer's using in a manual operation, and so that really reduces the barriers to entry reduces the risk of making a bad vendor selection and so that's where I think our model really allows retailers to take, take advantage of all of the benefits that the AI is providing today, and really solve business problems that exist today, while maintaining existing vendor relationships, taking incremental steps that can really help alleviate some of those risks and retire some risk, while at the same time unlocking the value.
Michael LeBlanc 22:00
All right. All right. I'm going to ask you a sports related question if you're into baseball or not, but if you're thinking about AI and the work, you're in the field that you master, what, what inning are we in?
David Pinn 22:11
That's a great question, early, early innings. Top of the second, should we say.
Michael LeBlanc 22:16
Okay, long way to go, long way to go.
Michael LeBlanc 22:19
Okay. I like that answer because, of course, as you know, you, you can be sometimes you're better being a fast follower than you are being you know, to bleeding edge in this stuff. So, you're, even though you're in the second inning, you're, you're at a point in your model where you're, you can still integrate with success and not, you know, take advantage of all the upside and not see too much of the downsides. It's a pretty great, it's a pretty great model.
David Pinn 22:19
There's, there's definitely a long way to go. At the same time, I, we do believe that now is the time really for retailers to get involved. You know, we've got almost 30,000 robots out in the field. People are using them day in and day out. Yes, it's early innings overall, but there are solutions that we provide. They're incremental solutions, they sit on top of solutions that retailers are already employing today and so, you know, we're all about really providing that incremental capability that allows retailers to make a very certain bet, even though it's early innings today.
David Pinn 23:23
Incremental improvement is the way, is the way we see it.
Michael LeBlanc 23:25
Right on, right on. All right, well, where can folks get in touch, learn more, are you a LinkedIn person yourself and how do people get in touch and all that stuff?
David Pinn 23:33
You can, you can definitely find me on LinkedIn would be honored, if those who are interested, find us on braincorp.com It's a great way to get in touch but yeah, hit me up on LinkedIn would be just delighted to, to chat with you.
Michael LeBlanc 23:47
Well, David, thanks so much for, for joining me on the Voice of Retail podcast. It's been real, been really interesting kind of learning this aspect of AI and I think retailers are turning their minds and their artificial minds if I can use the pun, more to, to AI and, and solving some real problems and solutions. So thanks for joining me on the pod making us a bit smarter about artificial intelligence.
David Pinn 24:10
Well, thank you very much, Michael, for hosting me, it's been a pleasure to talk to you.
Michael LeBlanc 24:14
Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure to follow on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically each week and be sure to check out my other retail industry media properties Remarkable Retail podcast with Steve Dennis, and like Global E-Commerce Leaders podcast. Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbecue, with new episodes each and every week.
I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, consumer growth consultant, president of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc, Maven media and keynote speaker. If you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website, at meleblanc.co.
Safe travels everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
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