In this episode I’m in Chicago welcoming back Kristina Rogers, Global Consumer Industries Leader, Retail for EY and we catch up talking about the tradecraft of global consulting in the COVID era and beyond, lesson learned and observed advising clients around the world, and we get a glimpse into the post-COVID retail customer from both a global and Canadian perspective thanks to EY’s Future Consumer Index.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
In this episode I’m in Chicago welcoming back Kristina Rogers, Global Consumer Industries Leader, Retail for EY and we catch up talking about the tradecraft of global consulting in the COVID era and beyond, lesson learned and observed advising clients around the world, and we get a glimpse into the post-COVID retail customer from both a global and Canadian perspective thanks to EY’s Future Consumer Index.
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I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!
Until next time, stay safe and have a great week!
Kristina Rogers
As EY Global Consumer Leader, Kristina is responsible for defining and implementing the EY strategy for consumer products companies and retailers. She ensures that EY’s global clients are well served across geographies, leading over 30,000 EY professionals worldwide. Kristina works directly with clients on the strategic issues they face as they pursue their rapid global expansion and is the Global Client Service Partner for a major consumer products company.
Prior to her current role, she served as Emerging Markets Leader for Consumer Products & Retail. Before joining EY, she was a senior partner at a global strategy consulting firm.
Kristina has lived and worked in more than 20 countries. Over the course of her career, she has built long-term client relationships with some of the world’s largest global consumer products companies, helping them solve some of their most complex strategic marketing issues across geographies.
How Kristina is building a better working world
"I am currently a member of the Financial Times’ 'Global Board-Ready' Women group and was selected as one of 40 women by Forbes to join 'More Women on Boards' in Turkey."
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada. In this episode, I'm in Chicago welcoming back, Kristina Rogers, Global Consumer Industries Leader, Retail for EY and we catch up talking about the tradecraft of global consulting in the COVID era and beyond, lessons learned and observed advising clients around the world, and we get a glimpse into the post-COVID retail consumer from both a global and a Canadian perspective thanks to EY's Future Consumer Index.
Kristina Rogers
Well, I think, you know, some organizations were, they, they prove themselves to be much more agile and nimble than we expected. So, especially retailers who were able to, you know, pretty quickly pivot to all of the things that are kind of common today, you know, using stores for as warehousing, and picking, and curbside pickup and all of those things. So, you know, I've been particularly impressed by a few organizations who I think just did a tremendous job of repurposing their assets, and really figuring this out. One of the more interesting ideas, and it just gets you thinking about what the art of the possible, I heard, one of, some of my colleagues in China, were telling us about a very large organization.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's listen in now.
Kristina, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast, or should I say, welcome back to The Voice of Retail podcast, how are you doing this afternoon?
Kristina Rogers
I'm actually great. Thank you, it's good to be back. I think it's been what, couple of, year or two.
Michael LeBlanc
You know what I was, I was looking back through the calendar, you and I sat down at the World Economic Forum in Vancouver, and it's summer, I think 2019. So, I think that's the last time you and I, 'A' it's the first time we met and 'B' it's the last time you and I talk. So, it's it's long overdue. Thank you so much for, for making some time. I've been, I've been following the work that you've been doing. So, it's great, it's a great opportunity. For the folks who may not have heard our first interview, why don't we start at the beginning. Tell us about yourself and your background and what you do at EY.
Kristina Rogers
So, in my role, I am the Global Consumer Industries Leader at EY, and that, the three sectors that fall in there are consumer products, retail, and agri-business. And, a good part of my role is setting the strategy globally for EY in those industries. So, really taking a view of, where do we want to be making investments for priority geographies? Do we have the right people? Do we have the right approach? Do we have the right solutions to be taking to our clients who need to be served there?
Another part of the role, which I really appreciate, and value is thinking ahead. So, thinking about what are the trends in those industries? What challenges our clients going to be facing? What opportunities do we see? And out of that, how do we, you know, think about better, helping and guiding our clients to both capitalize on opportunities and take, take the challenges in the future head on? So, lots of moving parts, of course, over the last year and a bit,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, no doubt,
Kristina Rogers
As the future of so many things kind of hit us, hit us right in the face over the last year?
Michael LeBlanc
No kidding. Now you, you're a Canadian working globally, you're based in the US right now? Is that still the case?
Kristina Rogers
That is still the case. And I am based just outside of Chicago. And, it doesn't feel like the work is as global as it used to be, of course, it still is,
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right
Kristina Rogers
But I haven't been on a long-haul flight for quite some time, as you would probably guess. And, I, you know, who knows what that will look like in the future.
Michael LeBlanc
I got to ask you about that from your tradecraft perspective. Because, I imagine someone in your role at that level, a global organization, would see an airport or two on an average annual basis. What's it like? Like 'A' personally, you know, you travel less, in some ways, maybe that's more productive, maybe there's some challenges. And 'B' it just, how do you run the book of business and work with clients? Have you found it better? The same? You know, how do you, talk about that for a bit. I'm really curious, because you're just, at that extreme, not that extreme, but you've traveled a lot. And I'm just curious what your life is like now?
Kristina Rogers
Well, I think you're right, it was extreme. So, sometimes when I look back, I would see that, you know, I had, you know, been in Dubai and two weeks later been in Tokyo but had been at home in the meantime, you know, and then was in London for some meetings and you know, in some ways,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah
Kristina Rogers
It was a bit crazy.
Michael LeBlanc
Road warrior right, you're road warrior, I mean,
Kristina Rogers
But I you know, the most of my career has been outside of North America. So that,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Kristina Rogers
Is actually something I do enjoy, because it's wonderful to just be in other cultures understand how those, the ways of working and how we get things done in those places and hopefully have a nice meal and see something different that that always doesn't work out. But it's, so it's been a little challenging, of course.
The thing that I'm you know, happy about is because I had done you know, a lot of traveling, certainly working with our teams around the world. I had a good relationship with those people,
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right,
Kristina Rogers
And I knew those people. So, transitioning to video platforms or conference calls, or, you know, whatever we've had to do in the last 15 months or so wasn't as challenging because I had made the investments of getting to know people and being there in person with teams. And so, you know, I'm very grateful, despite the fact that I look back and also wonder was that, you know, a great way to be living? From a professional perspective, you know, it was absolutely, you know, a terrific investment that I had made and building those global relationships really come in handy.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, big strong foundation, both in the client side and with your, with your, with your colleagues.
Now, let's stick on that point for a little bit, but how do you see things in the future? I mean, this is a big topic for everyone. Not necessarily, you know, will I travel the world again? But for you know, for retailers, and everyone we're thinking about what's the workplace going to look like? I often hear hybrid, you know, the hybrid approach. But, you know, I, on the buyer side, I was talking to some retailers about, you know, they've saved literally, literally millions of dollars by their buyers, their merchants not doing big buying trips over to China. In the short term, it's very similar to what you're saying, because in the short term, they say, listen, it's great with existing vendors, you know, we get on zoom, and we can manage the relationship quite well. It's a little harder to find new and build new relationships. How do you see post-COVID? We can kind of see the end zone to the end of all this, the goalposts seem to keep moving, but we can,
Kristina Rogers
They do,
Michael LeBlanc
They can kind of see the end zone. So, there's an end point. How do you, how are you guys thinking about what that's going to look like? And I guess that's a, you know, 'A' in your world? And then 'B', how are your clients thinking about how they're going to work in the future? I'm just kind of curious, before we get to talk about this great report, I just really wanted to follow this thread for a bit.
Kristina Rogers
Yeah, you know, it's interesting, I think, from as a professional service organization, you know, EY has really taken a step back and tried to reimagine, you know, how, how we come together. You know, people have gotten, there's many benefits, of course, to working from home, you know, there's no commute, you have more personal time, although I think that's faded. I think people have managed to fill their workdays in those hours that might have been personal time. So, I do think here, we're really trying to reimagine, well, how do we team? You know, when should we be in the office? How do you keep the corporate culture? But you know, there's also opportunity out of all this to, to do something really different, and to do a reset of sorts. And so, you know, I know the leadership of our firm is really thinking about what that could look like.
And, you know, out of it in terms of positives, you know, we've been able to make some carbon neutrality commitments, because I think we're basically said, you know, we were doing all that travel as a firm, we don't really need to. We've got to reimagine what will take its place. And of course, there will be some, but you know, in many ways, it's given an opportunity to just, you know, think a few things over. And I think that extends to our clients as well.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Kristina Rogers
They're also trying to figure out, you know, well, you know, we've actually been able to run a FMCG company, from everyone being not in the office. So, what can we learn from that? And how can we really create some benefit and, or some new ways of working coming out of it? I don't think, I'd be surprised, as you know, anybody just goes right back to being in the office as soon as everything's opened.
Michael LeBlanc
I think the opposite is also true, right? I think, I think anyone who thinks everyone's going back to the office, and no one going back to the office is wrong on both counts, right? I think it's somewhere in between. You know, I did this, this interview with an author, Emre Soyer, and he wrote a book called, 'The Myth of Experience'. And, the worry is we learn the wrong things from this era. And, and you know, I was talking to someone else about this yesterday. I mean, listen, sure, you know, business continued, but really, I've never experienced, but I want to get your insight on this, I've never experienced such a galvanizing event where there's now mission, right. Every organization had a mission, right.Every, you know, you know how hard it is to galvanize.
Kristina Rogers
Yeah
Michael LeBlanc
An organization. Now, we were all aligned to the same mission, right. Which was, you know, survive, do what we need to do to get through the COVID era. When that mission goes away, we, I guess we have to be careful not to learn the wrong lessons. Like, as in 'Hey, business was great. And we didn't spend the money we spent before'. Yeah, okay, but, you know 'A' there's some tailwinds, and 'B' it wasn't a normal time. Like, I guess that's the challenge that you'll be helping clients figure out, you know, now and in the years to come, right.
Kristina Rogers
Yeah, I think that's well said, because I remember back this time last year, or let's say, May, or June 2020, and all the things we thought we were, you know, learning and we were observing the kind of evil ways that, you know, we, things that we've been doing before the lock downs, and we've had time to reflect and reconsider. And people were making all sorts of personal commitments or, you know, commercial commitments and so on. And, you're right I wonder if we kind of went back and unpacked you know, that have we learned, you know, has that learning carried through a year on? I would hope that there's been a very solid and imaginative leadership in these organizations.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Kristina Rogers
To, and to be cognizant and self-aware that there's a real danger of doing what you just said.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, and you and I've lived through an experience, not of this scale, but similar once before with 911, right. And, you know, we're not going to get on airplanes, and it's all going to be video calls. And, you know, within a few years, it went back to record amounts of travel. Anyway, let's not, no need to kind of, continue to talk about that. I mean, it's, it's so fascinating, I love to talk about it.
What, what kind of things are your, your clients now asking you about in terms of, you know, when they, when they say, 'Listen, we've we're a year into the COVID era, we can see the end point, but we're trying to understand, what?' We're trying to, is it how to reach, near shore a supply chain that seems so rigid that it broke when it's stretched? Is it we don't understand what consumers are talking about now? Is it, what are the top kind of issues that you're when your phone rings, or the zoom camera comes on, what do you, what have you, what have you been asked?
Kristina Rogers
I think you hit two of them. So, certainly, our supply chain practice globally, across all of those three sectors, has really exploded. And it's been, we've been challenged to just keep up with,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Kristina Rogers
You know, the discussions and the work to help the organizations, help our clients reimagine what that could look like, and take the opportunity to, if they've been wanting to do something different, if they've been wanting to digitize their supply chain, if they've been wanting to add autonomous planning, you know, things of that nature, you know, the,
Michael LeBlanc
Now's the time, now's the time, right?
Kristina Rogers
The opportunity broke wide open. So, you might as well reimagine it, because what came to light was the, you know, what was there was stress tested and in many cases broke down. So, that's been a, you know, probably for, for other professional services firm or anyone in that space, a clear, a clear winner in terms of you know, where we're doing work.
Michael LeBlanc
Through all this time, what can you call out if you can think of any, anything that stands out your mind is, of particular innovation? I half think that the innovation is yet to come. In other words, you know, I know here, here in Canada, you know, I'm in, I'm in Toronto, we're in stay-at-home orders, you know, stores are locked down. So, I'm not sure how many, how much innovation is necessarily happening, you know, just can't figure out if your store is gonna be allowed to open on a day-to-day basis. But I feel like it could unleash innovation Have you, during the past year seen, you know, if you have a couple examples of something that really jumped out at you, that was a really innovative approach from your clients or something you just seen in the marketplace?
Kristina Rogers
I would say, the, you know, you mentioned consumer behavior, that is absolutely, you know, a clear issue for companies, retailers, and consumer products companies to really try and get their arms around now. You know, what, what has changed? What is changing? What will stick? What doesn't stick? And I think that manifests itself for us in conversations around data and analytics. So, you know, companies really having to take a look at the, the data they have, do they have master data? Why don't they? Are they using it in a strategic way? How are they, you know, taking insights from that to really apply and think about where the future consumer is doing and where they're going. And are they, you know, set up to address their needs?
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I think, you know, some organizations were, they, they prove themselves to be much more agile and nimble than we expected. So, especially retailers, who were able to, you know, pretty quickly pivot to all of the things that are kind of common today. You know, using stores for as warehousing, and picking, and curbside pickup and all of those things. So, you know, I've been particularly impressed by a few organizations who I think just did a tremendous job of, you know, repurposing their assets, and really figuring this out.
Kristina Rogers
One of the more interesting ideas, and it just gets you thinking about what the art of the possible. I heard one of, some of my colleagues in China, were telling us about a very large organization, FMCG company, who turned their employees into their sales force during this time. So, not the salespeople, but say, you and I, right, we're the marketing people or the accountants or whatever. But we have a phone in our hand, we have a, you know, we have an apartment, or we have a home. So, you know, they had products that they were selling in their neighborhoods. And I thought, well, that's interesting. That's a way to redeploy your workforce using the technology. So, presumably, they were all kitted out with the right apps and, you know, connection to, you know, depositing money and tracking this SKU they were selling. And so, this was sort of, I thought, a very innovative approach to the old neighborhood selling because, you know, the, the company had distribution trucks, they had product, but they just had nowhere for people to necessarily get hold of them.
And so, you know, for me, I was thinking, well, how could you repurpose a workforce? What could you do with technology that we're not thinking about today? You know, and I think if we reflect on, on some of these kind of odder things that companies did, I bet you there's some really good ideas out of it.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, you mentioned the keyword in my mind, and that's, that's agility, right. And I think that's the thing that a lot of people, or a lot of CEOs say, 'I hope we can bottle what we did, and keep it going, when the mission fades', thankfully, the mission is gonna fade. So, how do we keep that fast decision making? Like, how do we, you know, as you know, many organizations, probably yourselves included, you know, suddenly everybody's working at home in a week, and then you probably mulling it about for years, right. Is it a good idea or is it not? And you know, curbside pickup another good example, right. Where a lot of retailers, kind of mulled it about and, 'Let's make it happen next week, how about that?' So, that agility part, I think you really rang the bell there for me there. That, that part is really, you know, how to keep that mindset if, and philosophy and culture. Culture, right, it's really about culture, agility I feel is a lot about culture. What do you think?
Kristina Rogers
Yeah, it is. And, I think that the, that entrepreneurial, you know, flair for fast fail. So, sometimes being agile might be disastrous, hopefully not, you know, in a too big of a way.
Michael LeBlanc
Hopefully short lived, right, a short-lived disaster.
Kristina Rogers
Short lived and not big. But I think, you know, you're right to say a lot of organizations that, you know, that we work with, they're really trying to reevaluate, yeah, what is, what does it mean to be in that role? What kind of KPIs do you have? Are you able to, do you have the latitude to do the type of thing that we've been doing over the past year? People moved quickly into, you know, doing all sorts of things. That wasn't the norm before, necessarily for large organizations.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Kristina Rogers
So, you're right, some of them have been probably pleasantly surprised to see that their workforce and their operations could pivot quickly into something different.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, I think, I think a lot of people were pleasantly surprised and, and proud of their organizations. And, and again, how do we bottle that so that we don't need a crisis to change, right? How do we get that that same kind of vibe, without really without a global crisis? Because I think we've had enough of that for a lifetime.
All right, well, let's talk about the Consumer Future Index. Have I got that right, the Consumer Future Index?
Kristina Rogers
Future Consumer Index.
Michael LeBlanc
There you go, Future Consumer Index. I was actually reading that a couple of weeks ago. So, it was a great coincidence that you guys reached out and said, 'Hey, let's, let's talk about it again' Great piece of work, great body of work. First of all, tell us about the body work itself, like how it's accumulated and, and what you're tracking? And then let's dive into some of the, some of the stats, hopefully, some, I see you have some stuff on Canada, what have you learned? And talk about the segmentation. But again, first, what is it? How do you pull it together? And let's start there.
Kristina Rogers
Yeah, I'd be delighted to. And actually, the journey, you know, the journey towards this probably started about three and a half years ago, when, I might have mentioned this when we spoke before, I had launched a global body of work called Future Consumer Now. And that was really trying to get EY and by extension, our clients, some scenarios, points of view, for different parts of the world about, you know, how consumers would want to live in the future. You know, and that means not just what they buy, but how are they going to manage their health, get to work, you know, learn, workout, get around towns, etc. And, you know, it was pretty futuristic at the time, I have to say, Michael, and people kind of pooh poohed it in some ways and said, you know, if there's no 5g, half of the stuff you're talking about won't happen.
Michael LeBlanc
A little too touchy feely, right? A little too, out there a little too
Kristina Rogers
It was pretty out there. You know, we did a number of,
Michael LeBlanc
What do I do with it? You know, what do I do with this information?
Kristina Rogers
And, but the practicality of it is that we had 150 drivers of change. So, when we worked with clients, we would have them select a portfolio of drivers that they felt was most relevant to their business, and play it out. What if this happened, what, you know, how do things accelerate. And I kid you not, one of the 50 drivers was global pandemic. But nobody ever selected it.
Michael LeBlanc
Come on, yeah,
Kristina Rogers
100% can you that
Michael LeBlanc
That will never happen.
Kristina Rogers
Tell you that. So, frankly, from my perspective, last March, when my kids’ school was cancelled, there was everything was closed, it look like the zombie apocalypse out there. I just said, 'Here it is'. So, we need to track the change in behavior and understand you know, how quickly change is going to accelerate and I want to track this, I don't know how long it's going to carry on. But I definitely know our behaviors are going to change as consumers and we as EY need to understand that so that we can help our clients understand that. So, last April, we quickly went into the field in five countries, Canada being one, little nostalgia on my part, I think that I selected,
Michael LeBlanc
Thank you for serving our market. We're not the biggest market, we're not the biggest market.
Kristina Rogers
No, but I also thought our clients would want a view of Canada and the US, especially our, you know, any North American based clients. So, that, we're now on our around cycle six of research. So, we've been checking in with the consumers all around the world. We're up to 20 countries now. The last two cycles, we've, we've had 20 markets, and we're almost 15,000 consumers that we are just tracking and trying to understand, what did they say to us, you know, a few cycles ago? Has that changed? Is it different? And where are we? And what can our clients learn from it? And so, it's pretty, pretty fascinating, actually, just to understand what's different in different parts of the world. You know, obviously very different when you look at that data for China versus,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah
Kristina Rogers
You know, North America.
Michael LeBlanc
That's the irony, right. I mean, China, I, you know, we thought we could learn a lot of lessons from China, but they were through the pandemic in months, not years. Like, I don't know anymore, what we can learn from China from that perspective. But other places are going to be there longer. But, let's talk about Canada, you one of the things, I'm looking at this at that, the report now I talked about some segmentation. And you say, okay, there's four consumer segments during the COVID crisis, walk me through your approach and what those segments are?
Kristina Rogers
Well, I think, you know, that, that's actually something we've, what has changed a little bit, because when we first start, you know, the first two rounds of data, we thought we could see some things emerging. And we've been just, you know, playing around with the data we have every time to say, 'Is this segmentation sticking? You know, what are we actually seeing? Does this gonna make sense?' And so, I would say even some of it is still, especially in Canada, to be honest, because I was in Canada last summer, I drove over the border, I did my quarantine with my family. And it's, and I felt like I had left what was a big mess in the United States.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, the worm has turned, the worm has turned on that a little bit, that's for sure.
Kristina Rogers
Yes, and so you know, Canada just seem to be so on track, and I was happy to be there. And so, you know, in terms of, I would expect that we're going to keep an eye just on where things are falling out there, maybe even much longer than we are, you know, looking at that research in other markets. Because, I think, you know, there's still change to come. And, I think the sentiment out of what you're experiencing there now is going to be very different, if you know, the longer this goes on. So, I actually think in other markets, we're probably going to pull back a bit, but I'm, you know, in Canada, we're going to stay the course because of just what you're experiencing there. So, I will come back to you, Michael, with where we think this is really shaking out.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, it is the kind of literally the billion dollar question and it gets back to something we were talking about, at the beginning of the of our discussion is what can you actually learn? I mean, the times are so unusual, the behaviors, I mean, the savings rate, you guys track, you know, one of your segments is save and stockpile, the savings rate in Canada's crazy, but it's enforced. Like I can't go anywhere, like, you know, I'm gonna stay at home. And if you live in Quebec, you're on, you're under a curfew. So, you know, can you really learn about consumer behavior?
It feels like, and I want to get your implication, you've looked at this data, you, you know it so well, that there'll be this burst of activity, posts vaccine. Let's call it fall for easy math. That we again, won't be able to learn anything really, from because people will be just jonesing to get out and go shopping and do all these things. It'll be pent up demand, revenge shopping, I have heard that title, or whatever. And then, it will settle out a year from there, where the longer lasting implications. Do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, you're combing through this data, you're watching it move around, it's kind of like sticking jello to a wall, I'm sure some days, you know, based on, you know, the changing, the changing circumstances. What do you, how do you think that's gonna work out?
Kristina Rogers
Well, you know, that it's, you know, it's really fascinating one because you wonder, you know, people have been home, is it all pent up? I think some of the things we're seeing are, you know, out of the data, and this is a global data, not necessarily the specific Canadian data, but, you know, there's also some recognition that maybe we can live with less.
Michael LeBlanc
Oh, interesting,
Kristina Rogers
Right?
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Kristina Rogers
So, I've been at home, I've been monitoring my shopping, I'm kind of, if I've migrated online, especially, you know, grocery purchases, I may be now just, you know, stuck with my past purchase lists there. I hardly ever explore for new things,
Michael LeBlanc
Bad news, bad news for brands, right? I mean, how do you get new ideas and freshness in when people are happy with what they got interesting.
Kristina Rogers
Right, I mean, you know, so that's one thing. I think the other thing we've been exploring is, you know, the notion of shopping versus buying and that dichotomy. So, you know, a lot of brands or products now, you know, there's, there's more shopped for, sorry, they're more bought. I don't really care to explore them, I don't, you know, I don't want to learn about new and improved, I'm not interested, you know, they're just on autopilot. So, I buy them and I'm not interested in any experience around them.
Michael LeBlanc
Right
Kristina Rogers
I think what you're talking about with the, you know, maybe revenge buying and shopping and so on, could be those categories that people still care about having an experience with. So, I'm interested in exploring, I'm interested in some sort of sensory experience around it. I'm interested in, you know, what might be new, but that's not every category. And I, frankly, you know, I think that's more apparel. And in that vein cosmetics, perhaps less so you're, you know, FMCG household products, some foods, you know, may just be very well, kind of on autopilot pilot buying now.
So, I think there's some definite, you know, things to be watching. I wonder, you know, one of the hypotheses I've got my team exploring is, you know, did we actually reach the zenith of consumerism?
Michael LeBlanc
Hmm,
Kristina Rogers
Right.
Michael LeBlanc
It's a good question, it's a great question.
Kristina Rogers
You know, we say, we say it's all gonna bounce back and roaring 20s. But what part is bouncing back?
Michael LeBlanc
It's also what's left to buy? My goodness, like, you know, I just bought a big, it's funny, I got just bought a big smoker. A Yoder smoker made out of Kansas, American made 400 pounds. I'm like, now I have four barbecues. And by the way, and like, because I'm home, right, it's a staycation I can easily justify it because I'm not traveling. But eventually you start running out of stuff to buy. And I had that same thought, did we break the back of consumerism?
Kristina Rogers
Yeah, I feel like we might have Michael, I really do. Because I also think that there's the segment of people who realize how much waste and junk we create, because it that used to be all distributed all around. And then suddenly, you and your family were at home,
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Kristina Rogers
And you just saw that what you used to maybe throw out at the gym, or at school, or at work, or at the bus stop, or, you know, whatever, was all concentrated in your home. And so, not everyone, but there's a fairly significant proportion of the population that is reconsidering, you know, this consumerism, and its impact, and their personal stake in it all. So, I think, yes, we'll probably see some spending and on some fun things, right,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure, sure.
Kristina Rogers
Eating out, vacations,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah,
Kristina Rogers
But more experiential. I'm less bullish on things,
Michael LeBlanc
Stuff. Yeah, yeah.
Kristina Rogers
Stuff.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, let's say last couple of questions for you. What, if you could so far, draw three things you've learned, your clients have learned during the COVID era, so far, what would those be? I think, you know, for example, you, you mentioned the benefits of agility, that's for some, new found, a new found skill, but anything jumped to mind, it's okay, so far, here's what we've learned that we just didn't know, and that, that's important to us?
Kristina Rogers
I think if I think about the consumer end of it. So, the, the consumer data and the way we're, we're talking about it with clients. One thing I would say is, you know, they've, they've got to really start thinking about meeting consumers where they are, right. So, not where the business is, or not in traditional retail, or you know, that, that's all been blown apart and unbroken. So, you know, the clients I work with, we're talking about, how do you redesign, you know, the business, business processes to meet, you know, consumers, where they are, how they live? You know, rather than,
Michael LeBlanc
And how the shop is going to be different, right? Because if it's, if, let's assume, let's pick a number, two thirds of people go back to the office, a third of people are shopping differently. That's a bit, that's a big number, right? That's globally, locally, that's a big number no matter what, right?
Kristina Rogers
Well, I think that the whole system of marketing to us was, you know, I'll do that, or I'll make the transaction, you know, where you buy. So, whether that was a physical store, maybe some linear pathway online. But that's all changed, I mean, especially for younger generations. You know, they want to be reached, they want you to reach out to them where they are, not have to go where you are. And that's a very different model than what are these organizations are set up for today. So, I think, you know, that's something that we're observing and trying to, trying to, you know, think through with our clients, what does that really mean?
The other thing I would say is, as much as you and I just talked about, everyone's itching to get out, you know, we want to have dinners and you know, go to party, but we're also seeing through our research, that at home living is here to stay. Right, our home is, is our hub. We've learned how to work at home. Kids have learned how to learn at home. We've learned how to do telemedicine from home. We've learned how to stay fit and healthy at home. And, you know, that's not going anywhere that you know, for me, and I think some of our data and research confirms that. So what does that really mean, right? What are people doing at home? And as an organization, what are your products and services, right? Do you fit in?
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right.
Kristina Rogers
You know, and a lot of the spending, I think we'll see, will be on people's homes.
Michael LeBlanc
It's fascinating. Listen, it's fascinating work. You know, I could talk to you about this for hours. And I'd love to have you back on, you know, the later in the year is things start to sort out and we start to see how consumers are thinking and how your clients are thinking. In the, in the interim, where can listeners go and find the best source of information about the reports we've been talking about? Where, where can they go find that stuff?
Kristina Rogers
Um, ey.com is a great place. So, if anyone is looking for some of our index data, specifically, and, you know, content and, and thoughts and ideas that we've written about that, you can always find that on ey.com under the 'Consumer Industries' tab, or "Consumer', or "Future Consumer Index', and specifically, in Canada, the CA, ey.com/canada.
Michael LeBlanc
Right
Kristina Rogers
Stroke Canada,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Kristina Rogers
There will be specific content there for the Canadian market. So, it's pretty simple.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, perfect. Thanks for doing that. I'll put that link in the show notes and you're on LinkedIn, I suppose we can people can catch up with you there and all the thing.
Kristina Rogers
I am on LinkedIn. And I do you know, put my musings there about, you know, what we're seeing in the Future Consumer Index.
Michael LeBlanc
Right on,
Kristina Rogers
So Sure.
Michael LeBlanc
All right. Well, listen, thanks so much for making time. It's great to catch up. Way too long. We, maybe one day we'll see each other again in person at a conference before we can remember what those were. But, in the interim, it was so great to hear your voice again and catch up. And thanks for taking the time to chat with The Voice of Retail.
Kristina Rogers
Oh, it was nice to be back. Thanks.
Michael LeBlanc
Thanks for tuning into today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure and follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you enjoy podcasts so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating review as it really helps us grow so that we continue to get amazing guests onto the show. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co. Until next time, stay safe. Have a great week.