On this special episode I am thrilled to be sharing a full episode from my all new Conversations with CommerceNext podcast featuring Daria Burke, Chief Marketing Officer at JustFab I launched the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast with my U.S. based partners to meet the top practitioners and thought leaders in the DTC & eCommerce marketing space, and explore both their tradecraft and share the learnings from their career journeys.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
On this special episode I am thrilled to be sharing a full episode from my all new Conversations with CommerceNext podcast featuring Daria Burke, Chief Marketing Officer at JustFab
I launched the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast with my U.S. based partners to meet the top practitioners and thought leaders in the DTC & eCommerce marketing space, and explore both their tradecraft and share the learnings from their career journeys.
Let’s listen in now to the introduction, and then we pick up the conversation with Daria as she joins CVS as the head of Beauty Strategy.
Thanks for tuning into today’s episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode please consider leaving a rating and review, as it really helps us grow so that we can continue getting amazing guests on the show.
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!
Until next time, stay safe and have a great week!
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
On this special episode, I'm thrilled to be sharing a full episode from my all-new conversations with commerce next podcast featuring Daria Burke, Chief Marketing Officer of JustFab.
I launched the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast with my US-based partners to meet top practitioners and thought leaders in the DTC and eCommerce marketing space and explore both their tradecraft and share their learnings of their career journeys.
Let's listen in now to the introduction. And then we pick up the conversation with Daria as she joined CVS as Head of Beauty Strategy.
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext Podcast. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by Wunderkind.
As the CMO of JustFab, one of AdAge's 'Women to Watch 2020' and an angel investor in the fashion tech space, Daria Burke has their finger on the pulse of the marketing world.
In this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext, we get an exclusive look into Daria's work and career. Daria talks about the big ideas that drew her into the marketing space and the values that are at the core of her work.
Gain insights on her vision for JustFab, the future of digital marketing, and the value of inclusive growth as a process and an outcome.
Daria Burke
And yes, we have an incredible reputation as a very savvy performance marketing organization and being powered by data and leveraging, deeply leveraging data science and personalization, our membership commerce model, have allowed us as a company to reimagine what fast-fashion looks like and kind of the business cycle of fashion retail.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Daria Burke
But Lebron’s still is at the core of our DNA. And fashion ultimately is about inspiration.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's listen in now.
Veronika Sonsev
Welcome to Conversations with CommerceNext, Daria. Thank you so much for joining us.
Daria Burke
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to speak with you.
Veronika Sonsev
Well, I am joined here with our producer and co-host of Conversations with CommerceNext, Michael LeBlanc.
Michael LeBlanc
Hi Daria, I know a little bit about the business, please say "Hi" to Laura, for me. I interviewed her at the last big show for one of my other podcasts. So, it's great to hear the brand again. And I'm so much looking forward to talking with you about all the great things that are going on.
Daria Burke
Oh, wonderful. I absolutely will and, and I’m sure [Inaudible] will be happy to hear that and looking forward to the chat for sure.
Veronika Sonsev
Well, Daria, talk to us about your career journey, you know, walk us through your personal and professional journey. And everything that you're rolling compass is that JustFab?
Daria Burke
Yeah. So, you know, the truth of the matter is, I think my marketing career started longer than 20 years ago. I feel like I've been in the space storytelling and selling ideas and even things, sometimes since I was really young. I have shared in the past that when I was a very young girl, my sister and I used to make bracelets, and we would sell them to you know, folks in the neighborhood and to friends for you know, not very much money, but these really cute little beaded bracelets and we would make like flowers on them and, you know, I just really loved the, the experience and the practice of creating things. And then I created my own little magazine, and I had an audience of one, which was my younger sister. And it was very much around fashion and beauty.
And so, when I got to the University of Michigan, I thought that I would parlay those interests into something that was more along the lines actually in journalism or something in that space. So, at the University of Michigan, I wound up studying literature and had a really incredible time just thinking about big picture ideas and concepts and the way the world works, and what motivated people. And it kind of led me to marketing. I graduated college after three years, and at 20 years old, still had no idea what I was going to do with my life. But I knew then that at least I wanted to have a business role in a creative environment.
And that wound up leading me into architecture and interior design. And I spent five years in the built environment, working across disciplines with architects and interior design leaders, who did everything from healthcare and, you know, hospitals, to higher education facilities, to corporate interiors, to more base building architecture projects for the government. And, and I loved how multidisciplinary it was and I really loved how you could see the impact of the environment that we were creating for people on productivity, on employee happiness. And so, there were lots of things within that that I really enjoyed.
But what was for sure, missing for me was one: really being at the center of the decision-making. When you're in marketing in the professional services environment, you're very much in a support role and not in what we call a line position. And I think the other piece of it was the proximity to the end customer. It was something that I really loved and was craving and it led me to business school.
And like many people decided to get my MBA with the goal of making that career switch into marketing within the consumer goods world and he was really focused on, on beauty and fashion, even then, and knew that not only did I have a deep interest in what makes people tick. But I really love the idea that how we choose to express ourselves externally, often reflects how we feel and has an impact on how we feel and how we behave and what our desires and our dreams might be.
And I studied marketing and strategy at Stern, at the Stern School of Business at NYU.
And from there launched into beauty. I spent several years at L’Oréal in their Luxury Products Division, doing marketing at Lancôme and then at Yves Saint Laurent (inaudible).
And it was at YSL, that my brand-and-performance-self sort of emerged professionally, you know, I went in with this deep desire to think about what it meant to center diversity in those conversations and in those ways, and it was not very trendy at the time to think about that and to think about what it meant to be appealing to a broader range of customers. And so, I think youth culture and, and inclusive growth was always something that was kind of at the core of my interests and my thesis for what would drive business outcomes.
But then I learned about performance marketing and got a chance to work in digital YSL. And I was, you know, actually working on our email marketing campaigns, I was working with our department store partners on what our brand experience was on their site. I was actually working on, you know, at the time, it was just link ads and clicking out to display ads on online,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Daria Burke
to drive people to our website or ecommerce site. And I loved it, I love the real-time feedback, I loved that I could think about what it meant to optimize, there was something there immediately that the customer was able to tell me that we could follow those breadcrumbs and think about how to improve her experience or tell better stories are really show her what she was looking for.
And I think honestly, that's really been the through-line for my entire career thinking about inclusive growth, both as a process, as an outcome. I think my instinct for where the demographic shifts have gone and continue to go have allowed me to think about storytelling and reach in a really different way, whether it's youth culture, whether it's multiculturalism, those intersect very closely, obviously, you're thinking about where the next 20 years will go.
And, you know, I was coming into the marketing discipline, kind of honing both of those simultaneously, when you thought about branding, you thought about performance. And I was lucky, I sort of grew up professionally at a time where you had kind of in the early 2000s, 20 years ago, people were just getting online and thinking about distribution that way.
And then you know, the last decade, I think, has been so much about customer acquisition at scale, how do we efficiently reach all these people, bring them into our business and do that as efficiently and effectively as we can? I think this next decade is really going to be about brand and about loyalty.
And so, for me, it's really exciting to think about then taking that experience, and really thinking about the brand and the audience and then performance, and moving through my career to a place like Rent The Runway, where I joined really, really early on in the business. And that honed my sort of [Inaudible] D to C eComm chops even further and allowed me to wear many hats as number 10, in a company that really saw explosive growth. And, and I was able to have a chance to do that across customer insights and operations, around business development, new verticals, and businesses, we would try as well as designer relations into really working with our designers to make sure that they knew that we weren't trying to cannibalize their business, but that it was an opportunity,
Michael LeBlanc
Hmm
Daria Burke
to really introduce their brands to new audiences. And, and I got a call from Lauder and I decided to go back to beauty and join them as the Director of Makeup Marketing for the North America business on the Lauder brand. And I spent several years there doing that on, you know, across all of the categories within makeup, we had about, I don't know 2200 doors that were all department store doors
Michael LeBlanc
Wow.
Daria Burke
at the time, and we were just starting to get into Ulta through fragrance. And we were in the midst of pitching Sephora and you know, that was such a shift that I started to see that was happening in the market. We were also in the midst of the recovery from the economic downturn and seeing what trends were emerging from there.
And you know, I'd had at that point a number of years under my belt of launching and sustaining and growing brands and a lot of that through a really tough time but it was you know very much in the manufacturing space. It was very much with the marketing, strategic marketing but nonetheless marketing lens and doing that as a, as a, as a luxury sort of brand within the prestige world.
And, and so I got a very interesting call. And I really wasn't considering it, but I ultimately wound up saying yes to move to Rhode Island. So, I left New York for two years, went to CVS as they were exiting tobacco and really focusing on health and beauty and thinking about what it meant to have that reflected in their proposition and what this growth look like for, for us at CVS in the beauty and health and personal care space. And so, I was this you know, beauty expert coming into head up that work as the, the right hand to the Chief Merchant of Beauty, at the time, on a $5 billion business.
And, you know, we had customers that would spend on average eight minutes in the store because they were coming in to refill a prescription or, you know,
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Daria Burke
they were in and out with convenience in mind. So how do you get them to linger? How do you get them to stay? What, what's next? You know, and so bringing Kay Beauty into CVS was one of the things that I'm really excited that I got to do, thinking about how they evolved their prestige skincare presentation with a very, like derm skincare focus, dialing up with the service and launching things like ear piercing with beauty consultants, and you know, and all.
Michael LeBlanc
Even, even back to your, even back to your architecture days, right?
Daria Burke
Yah,
Michael LeBlanc
You know, so, I think of the transformation physically of, of, of these stores, pharmacies, where the, you know, they're forward very forward in the design and the flow with prestige beauty now, right, it's changed so much.
Daria Burke
It changed so much. And you kind of bring me to one of the last things that I got a chance to work on was, you know, be one of the architects of Beauty IRL, which was CVS’ foray into beauty specific stores, and that was exact-, exactly that getting to design from just a concept and consumer behavior, what that looked like, and, and thought that I would land in what I call now very much my dream job as CMO at JustFab, but got a tap on the shoulder for, from Facebook. And it was very curious because I had not been in sales. I've not been in tech, I've not been deep in advertising singularly or in media in that way. But I've been the client. And that really was the draw to come in and to be a thought partner to a consultant to the C-suite in beauty, fashion, and retail advertisers.
And so I worked with the tapestry portfolio like Coach and Kate Spade, Stuart Weitzman, and the Hudson's Bay Company, to work with the team at Saxxs and Kors and Unilever, Shiseido and really help them think about what was next, you know, and how mobile was the future of distribution of reach, of relevance.
So again, youth culture that, you know, multicultural customer, all through performance marketing, and you know, and I did that for several years, had a blast and thought I would be there for forever, honestly, it was such a fun time and really dynamic. And finally, LJ, my boss reached out and I had a chance to, you know, have a glass of wine with her. She was actually in New York for CommerceNext a couple years ago.
Michael LeBlanc
There we go.
Daria Burke
And I said, okay, sure, we can meet and I met her, I think it was at the Renaissance Hotel, and we had a chance to chat about what she was doing in her then-new role, and leading the global fashion brands within textile and shared with me her vision for what it meant to reimagine JustFab and I packed my bags, and I left New York, I moved to LA. And I've spent the last two years leading our marketing team on customer acquisition, on brand positioning, awareness, and loyalty, and doing that, globally.
We have a team in Barcelona that really leans heavily into our European business. And they're really owning globally the positioning of the brand and that architecture, that foundation, re-engineering, our marketing processes, all the things but it's been such an incredible time thinking about as I mentioned, what this next decade looks like for us as a brand and what does that mean to feel loyalty integrated customers into just that.
Veronika Sonsev
Wow, that's, like, quite an amazing career journey. And I love kind of the mix of your direction, but also like that, taking that serendipity and really like look, finding those right opportunities that help you broaden your perspective as you kind of map out your marketing journey. It's pretty amazing.
Daria Burke
Thank you. It's a jungle gym. It really is and Sheryl Sandberg says that and I think you know are pretty careers tend to be a series of moves that often don't resemble anything remotely close to a very straight line. So, it’s been fun.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, right on.
We'll be right back with our interview with Daria Burke, right after this message.
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Veronika Sonsev
Well, I want to take a moment and kind of double click on what you're currently doing. I'd love it if you could tell our audience about JustFab. I mean, obviously, the company has been a fashion trail-blazer both in terms of the business model and the marketing strategies. Can you talk about what makes JustFab different from the, in the fashion and footwear space?
Daria Burke
Yes, happily, you know, first and foremost, we have our business model, which provides a really unique and flexible membership that allows our customers to shop as little or as often as they would like, and creating a membership model around, in 2010, you know, around fast-fashion was quite revolutionary in its form. And certainly, we have seen a number of other models emerge. But I think we remain unique in that, in our structure. And in that, we really are focused on footwear and then expanding outward into other categories, like apparel, and accessories. But really, as it ties back to dressing from the foot up, as we would say, maybe we start without footing, and then we kind of go from there.
Michael LeBlanc
Haha, right.
Daria Burke
And so, I would say that's really the beginning of it. And through that model, it has allowed us to be incredibly data-driven. We, including our creative decisions, you know, we make so many of our decisions rooted in the data. And again, you know, the customer's always telling you what they want, and when they want it, and how they best want to hear it from you. And so, thinking deeply about what that looks like, particularly at a time where this space has never been more crowded. And you know, it's been disrupted first, I would say, by Instagram, which launched months after we did, and, and the proliferation of brands being able to come online as a result of how easy it is to do so. And being able to, you know, stay competitive in that environment, I think relying a lot on the data that we have, the history that we have, and that heritage in performance marketing to do that.
And then I would say from the customer's perspective, we are very unique in that we have such inclusive sizing. And when you think about the fast-fashion landscape, it's getting better in being an offering more extended sizes, but within footwear especially, we're able to offer our customers, you know, sizes five and a half shoes all the way up to a size 12. We have wide width in the majority of our styles, as well as wide calves offerings for our, for our boots.
So, I would say that's something that I'm happy to see the market evolving, but it's absolutely something that we, you know, have cared deeply about and allows us to remain quite differentiated. And how we represent that to the customer, I think is also therefore incredibly unique in the diversity that you see with our celeb and influencer partners, the creators that we work with, and you know, and I think our ability to listen very closely to the customer, in general, it's something that we're always doing.
Veronika Sonsev
Yeah, absolutely. And that's always something that I've admired about the company, how data-driven JustFab is and, and also just how analytical your approach to marketing as a whole. But also kind of what I'm getting from this conversation is your agility to kind of adapt as the customer adapts. Because that, you know, a traditional brand can't always do that, because of the lead cycle sometimes it takes to develop products. And I guess to that effect, my, my question for you is kind of being in this fashion category, obviously, you know, when COVID hit, we all had to pivot, in the height of COVID and how to JustFab adapt, you know, women were wearing slipper socks and sweat suits and maybe not wearing heels as often as they used to.
Daria Burke
Absolutely, it was that agility absolutely came into play for us and it was a strength that we could, could leverage. We were fortunate in that, we had some of the offerings that were very easily sold and that were relevant in real-time to her life. And so, things like loungewear, things like slippers, and sneakers and, and even some things within the active space. And so, what we really focused on was pivoting hard and leveraging those categories as a means of, of driving and sustaining the growth and ultimately being relevant to the customer and having that offering. And so, chasing what we could as quickly as we could, and, and then being fortunate that we had the breath that we needed on the footwear categories, where she was more interested, you know, in the sneakers in the flats, and the slippers that could allow us to ultimately deliver across the combination of all those categories about 124% growth year over year.
And, and now we have long lead times. So, I won't pretend that it wasn't something that we thought about, and we had to continue to try to plan into. And we didn't know what was going to come down the pipe for Fall. But we were in a good position, pretty much in real-time to huddle on where we would lean in and where we would focus. And the interesting thing is that we saw as early as November, that the customer was checking with our stories around and our ideas around being fabulous at home and celebrating that even though you're at home, you can still look and feel good. But we started to see heels coming up in search terms. And you know, we started to see her actually buying heels as early as, the, around the holiday timeframe. And we still had a lot of uncertainty about what the future would hold. But I started to call it haute couture because it was, it was people willing
Michael LeBlanc
That’s funny, yeah.
Daria Burke
themselves into this next phase of where we all were as a society, you know, as a culture. And you know, we've obviously started to contin-, continue to see that pick up. But it was it was absolutely a part of our, I think our superpower in our business model that at a time where retail stores were closing and traditional companies and brands and advertisers were just starting to really think about digital marketing and reach, you know, we were able to capitalize on that and be in real-time relevant and resonant, which was, which was wonderful.
Michael LeBlanc
Your textile is known as a very savvy performance marketer, and I'm trying to pull a few threads here together, both from your experience and the business you're in, which is this intersection of fashion, and fashion and brand doesn't always intersect uniformly with performance marketing. Like sometimes those are two worlds, talk about, you were talking a bit about off-mic. You know, if we do the calendar of when you started at Textile, you're kind of at the, at the cusp of the COVID era, talking about the culture of your team, like how do you hire, who do you hire, because you both need that blend of, as marketers, you need that blend of very savvy performance marketing, which clearly you've got, you know, over the course of your career runs a solid thread. But you've also got that fashion sense, right? That, that creative sense, talk about when you hire, how you hire, how you're running your team. Now just a bit of the culture that you pulled together within your organization.
Daria Burke
Sure, it's interesting, I think about us. And yes, we have an incredible reputation as a very savvy performance marketing organization and being powered by data and leveraging, deeply leveraging data science and personalization, our membership commerce model have allowed us as a company to reimagine what fast-fashion looks like and kind of the, the business cycle of fashion retail.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Daria Burke
But Lebron’s still is at the core of our DNA. And fashion ultimately is about inspiration. And so, both of those things, I think, have always coexisted for us and have always been really important to us.
I, for sure, came in with the deep desire and the very clear goal of reimagining JustFab for today and, and ensuring that we, through a new voice and visual signature have the ability to create greater reach and relevance and resonance with, with our current customers as well as kind of that next generation of fashion interested customers.
And so, I was able to you know, pretty quickly understand I had a lot of talent on that front on my team already. But I had two roles that were really important that needed to be filled in the first was my Creative Director. And I'm very fortunate that as you mentioned, I came in quite, quite, just a few months before, before the pandemic really hit us and kind of shook the world under our feet and I was able to find my Senior Creative Director to round that out and to help me think about what our brand architecture was going to be and to be able to re-engineer that from the ground up and our value propositions, and therefore: how do those things come to life and reimagining the entire creative process and our photography and our perspective on tone. And you know, all of that.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daria Burke
That was really important. And so, when I was looking for that role, I was looking for a creative person who understood the pace of the performance marketing world and who
Michael LeBlanc
Very different, yeah.
Daria Burke
understood and could see, I think someone who had an understanding of even membership was great. And I wound up being able to bring in someone who, you know, had, had that, a lot of that experience. She's also one of the most strategic creative people that I know, I've had the pleasure of working with.
I think beyond that, folks who have, in some cases, obviously, deep technical expertise is very important, depending on the role, but that 40,000-foot view for me is driven by someone who is curious and asks a lot of questions, you know, I'm leading leaders who have to manage managers in many cases. And so, are you asking the right questions to get from the team we need?
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Daria Burke
Do you have that appetite for kind of that shift that we need? There's, there's a level of endurance and stamina and risk taking that,
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Daria Burke
you know comes with that as well. So, I would say those are two of the things that are incredibly important. We've got to be able to test and pivot and somebody who's just never satisfied with that and trying to figure out how to we out best ourselves is really important, and somebody wants to have fun. I like to have fun at work in fashion [Inaudible].
Michael LeBlanc
Right on.
Daria Burke
And you gotta you, gotta love that piece of it as well.
Michael LeBlanc
If you're enjoying this interview, you may want to join us for CommerceNext IRL on September 28th - 29th, at the New York Hilton Midtown. Some of the speakers you'll be seeing, including Noam Paransky, Chief Digital Officer at Tapestry, Ekta Chopra, Chief Digital Officer at E.L.F. Beauty, Matt Gehring, GM of Ecommerce at Everlane. Alex Waldman, Co-founder and Creative Director of Universal Standard, Jennifer Patrick, Global Branding and Packaging Director at Patagonia. And many more.
CommerceNext IRL will cover themes such as the resurgence of brick-and-mortar retail, and its impact on ecommerce, and how to prepare for a cookie-less future. We can't wait to get the CommerceNext community together in person. And hope you'll join us learn more and register now at commercenext.com
Well, what you're describing really is the art and science of marketing, which is, is that kind of a blend between the two. So, let's unpack that a little bit. You described I thought it was so interesting. You described Instagram as a disrupter. I've never heard that that deserti-, that description of Instagram before in this context. So, what's working really well for you in terms of performance marketing, if you could share with the, with the listeners and, and maybe you know what, maybe if looking back, you would have d-, would you double down on anything or, you know what, what's standing out in your mind today is as a tactic within that realm that's really working well for you?
Daria Burke
Yeah, I, you know, it's interesting, I think, and Instagram was a disrupter. Facebook, in general, was a disrupter, when you think about its ability to allow advertisers to reach millions and millions of people so quickly, and then, you know, over the last decade to be able to build out experiences that could drive, actually drive sales in near real-time, what is, is unprecedented, right?
So, Instagram, I think, what it did was allowed a different kind of storytelling to emerge. And it kind of allowed this, this collision of the traditional mediums like print that was kind of this backlit magazine, and into some extent, even television where you had short, medium and long-form content, right. So, I think it was very disruptive in that way.
For us, what's worked has been no one really following the data and thinking a lot about where the customer is going. I think our vertical integration and our structure internally allows us to do that, even more. So, where we have both acquisition and therefore the strategy as well as the media buying all in house and that those dynamics are a critical part of our DNA. It also, therefore, allows us to get generate learnings incredibly quickly and think about optimization to build the right internal tools to measure efficacy and think about attribution and the right way. And of course, creative you have to have the strong creative you cannot win in this world and I call it brand-formance.
We think about creative that can serve as the brand and be accretive to the brand and do the right job of introducing JustFab to customers who perhaps don't yet know us or haven't yet experienced us but that still has that urgency, to drive the click and, and sort of trigger the trip to our site and ultimately yield in that purchase.
And so, I think the combination of that immediate feedback of the really strong creative that we always look to put out into the world, as well as our internal structures, are fantastic. And then I think what's accelerated that and been kind of a super charger for it has been our talent that we work with, from kind of our micro-influencer community
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah.
Daria Burke
to our creators and kind of the more traditional fashion and lifestyle influencers, and then our celebrities. And I think that has really allowed us to bring all of those elements together in a really, really powerful way. And then we've got a great story. You know, I think that that's still is super important. And it's a very fun, exciting, and curious idea to think about having a membership in footwear and in fashion that allows you to be flexible, allows you to get great shoes at a really valuable price. I think that's always, you know, top of mind for us.
Michael LeBlanc
Right on.
Daria Burke
And thinking about what's going to drive that and drive that performance as well.
Michael LeBlanc
You've really written the book on, on that measurement, connecting with all these points, particularly influencers, right, because influence measurement, I think you've you know, in talking, speaking with Laura, in past discussions, you really honed in on, if we're gonna have these famous names, you're gonna have these influencers, small, bigger medium, that that DNA of measurement is still there, right? It's not some ancillary. And it's not some blank check. They, you know, the performance metrics need to be there. Very interesting.
Let me, let me shift gears a little bit on, let's talk about inclusivity and diversity, very important to consumers, you've spoken about it earlier in the interview is, as also a consistent thread, you've talked about it in the context of, of JustFab in terms of size inclusivity, you know, wide, wider elements and parts, but how does how also how other do you think of it within your world and within your universe? And how are you, how are you flexing or continuing to, to adapt and, and grow that component of the brand?
Daria Burke
Sure, I think, you know, again, I think, and I give all credit to Don and Adam, our Co-founders and the team that was there before me, because it's been important to us for the entire time we've been around. It's, it's part of what attracted me to the role and to the company. It's, it's deeply personal for me as well. And you've heard about how that's played out throughout my career before getting here. And so, for me, one of our core beliefs and one of the things in building our brand architecture, was having a very clear statement that fashion should exist for and be available to more than just a few people. And so yes, in sizing that plays out when you think about the extended sizes that we have in footwear in and apparel, but it also means having the breadth that would accommodate many different lifestyles. And you know, we talked about having all the shoes to live your life in and what does that look like.
And it means representation, it means ensuring that our models for our eCommerce, you know, photography, and our influencers and creator community, our celebrity talent, all reflect the world that we live in. And people deserve to feel seen and have a sense of belonging. And it's important to us to, to acknowledge and reflect that and use our platform to amplify very positive messages around that.
And that's extended into working with women who we are incredibly inspired by, you know, cultural changing women that we think are shaping the world in many different ways through our Leading with Style series and Elevating Women of Influence. And we work with a lot of influencers and they're fantastic and great at what they do. But women of influence who are often founders of the things like "I am a voter" and working with Mandana Dayani or Alli Webb, who's the founder of Drybar, and really thinking about what that means to elevate them and highlight our brand values in that way.
And you know, and it goes beyond casting, it's the hairstylist, it's the makeup artists, it's you know, it's our photographers, it's really important to us to have an ecosystem that is thoroughly and holistically inclusive and diverse.
And, you know, last but not least, the last year has, I think challenged a lot of us to consider whatever level of consciousness you've had about what's happening in the world and what the social injustices are that are happening, our ability to use our platform as well to speak out against racism, against police brutality, to say that Black Lives Matter and to be able to make financial commitments as well to causes and initiatives and organizations that are really rooted in fighting against those injustices and making this a more equitable place for all people. And so, you know, for us, it's so deeply embedded in what we do and, you know, within textile more broadly, as an organization having so many different partnerships and efforts that we are leading with our Head of Diversity and Inclusion, that range from training to recruitment, too, you know, some of the, some of the nonprofit causes that I mentioned, some of the volunteer efforts that we do.
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right on.
Daria Burke
You know, it really does extend very deeply across the organization so many ways.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, it feels like phil-, both philosophically and by, the, what you love to do in your career, you're at a great place, like it feels like where you are today.
So, let's talk about getting to a right place in your career. Any advice that you might share with the listeners? I mean, what did you describe it as that kind of jungle gym not nonlinear, I'm going here, I'm going there. I'm on this side of the table, I'm on that side of the table. I'm gamekeeper, sometimes maybe I'm whatever, agency, client. Is that, the, in your mind, a great path, that kind of diverse path of experiences? What are your kind of one or two things that you would advise the listeners about growing into the CMO role, as you've, as you've experienced it then you might advise?
Daria Burke
The CMO role has evolved so much. And I think my, my time growing up professionally required more of the jungle gym in order to build the toolkit that I feel like I needed, that serves me best. I think the role of the CMO is evolving. And we're starting to see CMOs being tapped for CEO roles. And I think that's a function of understanding that the person who really sort of owns, air quote, right, owns the customer.
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right.
Daria Burke
Owns the strategy for where you're going and has that ability. And I think that the rigor that has come with performance marketing, has armed many CMOs with a well-balanced toolkit to lead businesses in ways that perhaps in the past, just didn't exist. And you know, you didn't even see, consistently see CMOs owning a P&L.
So, I think if someone was really interested in this world, absolutely being able to gain, gain experience and digital marketing. Unfortunately, most people coming up professionally, now will more naturally have that.
Michael LeBlanc
Sure.
Daria Burke
But I think if it's not naturally woven into your day to day, ensuring that you create that, that understanding, and you really develop that fluency, it's, it's critical.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, seek it out basically. So yeah, your advice would be to seek it out if it's not part of what you're doing on a day to day.
Daria Burke
Absolutely, absolutely. And that might mean leaving, you know, that may mean sometimes making a choice to go somewhere else.
I think beyond that, it really does come down to developing the skills that you want to be known for. I'm a huge proponent of strengths-based leadership and strengths-based work. And CliftonStrengths is a tool that I use kind of obsessively, its something that early in my career really fueled my thesis on what I was good at, it gave me a vocabulary for how to think about what I was good at. It also understood, helped me understand how to hire for my blind spots and you know, hire for I don't want to say weaknesses, but things that are less rare in my, in my core strengths. And so, as someone who naturally has strategic thinking, acumen, and who is great at influencing others and getting people started and kind of activating the room or taking a really good idea and maximizing it to its highest potential, folks who are really good at relationship building in other ways. People who are really good at executing and can, you know, bring that focus, or bring a different type of harmony to a team are things that are super important.
And I think knowing yourself, I think being a leader regardless of the role, right, but we'll talk about it in the context of what I do. I think so much about what this, what disruptive leadership might look like, I think it starts with knowing yourself, and then it's knowing your team. And then it's knowing how to take risks and how to fail,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Daria Burke
Fail forward. And so, I think you've got to know what your strengths are. In order to do that. The functional expertise is always going to evolve to some extent.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Daria Burke
Technology's going to force us to have to learn something else along the way. And I think being okay with that and knowing that growth, and evolution means your identity will change. You can't do the same things and have the same outcome. If you want to grow, it means self-disruption, it means thinking about what might be next, it means having a beginner's mind.
Daria Burke
So, I don't know that there's a very specific road map that I would offer to someone in terms of their path to CMO, it's going to look different for everyone.
Michael LeBlanc
Sure is.
Daria Burke
Very practically, though I would say, never take the first offer. And then to really think about, you know, what it is that you want and, and go after that. And if you don't try, you know, you'll never get it have more questions than answers. And you know, ultimately you, you really only learn by acting, you're not going to think your way into learning you have to do.
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Daria Burke
And so, I think, taking those risks and testing, it would be very practical advice that I would offer to anyone.
Veronika Sonsev
That's so great Daria, and I just one thing I just want to add to what Michael asked is, if you could look at your role in five years, now, how do you think it will, if at all, how will it be different than it is today? And maybe I would even broaden this question to say, you know, what role will you be in? Will you be in the CEO suite? Or will you be in the CMO suite? Like, where do you see your career going?
Daria Burke
Gosh, that is, those are both great questions. I think to answer your first one, I absolutely think that the CMO role, it's already evolving. We're seeing now: Chief Revenue Officer, Chief Growth Officer.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Veronika Sonsev
and Chief Customer Officer,
Daria Burke
Chief Customer Officer, gosh, I mean, I can't even keep up, with all the new titles that are emerging. They all say the same thing, though. It's, they're all saying, "who is our customer? Who should it be? How do we grow our business by being relevant to that customer? And where", you know, "where do we go from there?" and that role, therefore, I think, becomes exponential in what the future could look like I mentioned a bit ago that more CMOs, I think, are moving into the CEO, you know, Office of the Chief Executive and playing, playing to those strengths and how being visionary in a different way and having a knowledge of where the customer, the market, the where the trends are going, how important it is for the CEO to have that, that instinct. And so I imagine that will just continue on.
I think that growth in all of its forms will be more important to the CMO than ever, and I think traditional CMOs, who've been very, very brand-focused, are going to continue to find their roles being stretched and pushed into places and right now, that looks like a lot of silos, if you're in a big company, and you maybe you have a Chief Digital Officer and CMO and you know, a Head of Growth. And sometimes that makes sense, I think those things will slowly become more singular in its leadership, and the teams below that person, really have those areas of expertise, but I think that it will always have some element of brand-formance. And I think that it will, you know, really be those who can follow where the customer is going or anticipate where the customers go,
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Daria Burke
and where culture is going really, who will win and thrive. For me personally, I love being in the CMO seat, the creativity that comes with that. And some of best days are the days where I get to be on set or I get to roll up my sleeves with the team and think about a concept for a shoot and/or just going through selects for, you know, for something. I love those days as much as I do, the days where we have big aha moments for what we might try or test into that feels a little bit more data-driven.
And so, I don't know I think for now that's, that's really what I enjoy. I absolutely could see that excitement move into the CEO role, but it's, it's not something that I'm on the immediate focusing on. I really do enjoy the work I'm doing and I get to, right now, think about just bringing a new version of our brand to life in T-minus four weeks. And so that's really where my attention is in the, in the immediate term.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, truly a modern CEO, the art, the science, a dollop of revenue generation, a connectivity to the customer.
Listen, it's been a great, great discussion. Thanks, Daria for joining us on Conversations with CommerceNext, and sharing your insights, professional journey.
And of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that you're going to be speaking at CommerceNext IRL, as the kids would say in real life. On September 28th - 29th. In New York City, you're gonna be back on the other side of the coast, in New York and your session is Building a Modern Marketing Organization for Today's Growth Challenges. You focus on leadership advice so, I think we'll take the, the bit of discussion we had on that, clearly there's a lot more you have to contribute because it's just such a fantastic discussion. So, thanks, thanks again for joining us. Veronika, back to you.
Veronika Sonsev
And of course, on, on behalf of Scott and Michael, I wish you much continued success and of course a great rest of your day. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.
Daria Burke
Thank you so much for having me. I've loved every minute of it. I cannot wait to be together in New York in the Fall. It is the best time to be out there. So, there's so much more to look forward to. But I am thrilled to be with you today. Thank you.
Michael LeBlanc
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon music or your favorite podcast platform where we'll be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode.
CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest ecommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at commercenext.com.
Have a fantastic week, everyone!
Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure and follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you enjoy podcasts so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating and review as it really helps us grow so that we continue to get amazing guests onto the show.
I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co
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