On this episode, an excerpt from my Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, Lisa Perlmutter, Senior Vice President, Marketing & E-Commerce at Brilliant Earth and Lauren Thomas, Retail Reporter, CNBC talk about sustainability and sustainable competitive advantage
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Recorded live in person at the 2022 CommerceNext Ecommerce Growth Show, I sat down with some of the top trailblazers and change-makers that joined the CommerceNext community in New York City to discuss the future of digital commerce and share the latest strategies for E-commerce acceleration.
On this episode, an excerpt from my Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, Lisa Perlmutter, Senior Vice President, Marketing & E-Commerce at Brilliant Earth and Lauren Thomas, Retail Reporter, CNBC talk about sustainability and sustainable competitive advantage
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven’t already, be sure and click subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week, and check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and the Food Professor podcast. Last but not least, if you are into BBQ, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbeque, with new episodes each and every week!
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co! Have a safe week everyone!
About Lisa
About Lauren
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated on thought leadership panels worldwide. Michael was recently added to ReThink Retail’s prestigious Top 100 Global Retail Influencers for a second year in 2022.
Michael is also the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts, including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus the Remarkable Retail with author Steve Dennis, Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. Most recently, Michael launched Conversations with CommerceNext, a podcast focussed on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers - all available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music and all major podcast platforms. Michael is also the producer and host of the “Last Request Barbeque” channel on YouTube where he cooks meals to die for and influencer riches.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:11
On this episode, an excerpt from my Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, Lisa Perlmutter, Senior Vice President, Marketing & eCommerce at Brilliant Earth. And Laura Thomas, Retail Reporter at CNBC, talk about sustainability and sustainable competitive advantage.
Michael LeBlanc 00:26
Lauren, Lisa, welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast here, brought to you by CommX. Nice to see you both.
Lauren Thomas 00:34
Yes. Nice to be here in person.
Michael LeBlanc 00:36
Yeah, it IRL in person. Lauren, I should say welcome back because you were on a podcast, like about a month ago. So, you know, the insights keep coming, (crossover talk), thank you for, -
Lauren Thomas 00:44
More reasons to come back, yeah, -
Lauren Thomas 00:44
I know, I know, more, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc00:46
Thank you for joining, -
Michael LeBlanc 00:47
Exactly, exactly. So, and we've seen each other a couple of times. And so, it's great to see you again in person. Lisa, let's start with you. Tell me a bit about yourself, your background, what you do for a living? And let's jump in and start there.
Lisa Perlmutter 00:58
Yeah, absolutely. So, Lisa Perlmutter, currently SVP of Marketing & eCommerce at Brilliant Earth. If you don't know Brilliant Earth, we are an ethically, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 01:09
Tell us all about it, -
Lisa Perlmutter01:10
Oh good, -
Michael LeBlanc 01:11
Yeah, yeah, -
Lisa Perlmutter01:13
We're an ethically sourced jewelry comp-, fine jewelry company, been around for 17 years. Personally, I'm a digital eCommerce marketing nerd. I've been doing it forever. And, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 01:23
You were at SEPHORA, right? (Crossover talk), -
Lisa Perlmutter 01:24
I was at SEPHORA, -
Michael LeBlanc 01:25
Now, were you there in the Calvin McDonald era?
Lisa Perlmutter 01:27
I was I was we overlapped for a little bit. And, you know, he's doing amazing things at Lulu.
Michael LeBlanc 01:34
Yeah, he's done well for, I mean, we were counterparts back in the late 90s in the eCommerce space. I'm from Toronto, we're both from Toronto. So, but he seems done, he's done well and Lululemon it's just you know, such, such a such a thing. And I have a love for your category ran marketing for Pandora Jewelry in Canada. So, I have some little knowledge about you and, and the category so, -
Lisa Perlmutter 01:57
Good to hear, -
Michael LeBlanc01:59
How did you fall into retail? Was it, you know, did you always want to be a retailer? Did you always want to be digital? Tell me about you know, when you were in the sandbox as a little kid, we're always saying, one day I just want to be in retail. Or how did your journey go?
Lisa Perlmutter 02:11
Yeah, it actually started in online travel, I have always had the travel bug, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 02:16
So, your passion was through travel and then you wound up in that, -
Lisa Perlmutter 02:18
You got it, -
Lisa Perlmutter 02:19
And my passion was always travel and I was at an online travel company and I was at Travelocity before people were really comfortable buying airline tickets on a desktop computer, -
Michael LeBlanc 02:22
In that, in that business, -
Michael LeBlanc 02:29
Imagine them doing that, -
Lisa Perlmutter 02:30
And I loved it. And then I love just the whole online kind of customer acquisition, customer buying, giving them the right information, moved over to to Macy's, dot com actually, back when Macy's was really (inaudible), mode, right, really, really transitioning from a very large store footprint are really, really driving their digital business.
Lisa Perlmutter 02:54
And then, you know, then I walked literally a few blocks away to SEPHORA and started and I haven't really looked back. The omni-channel retail model is just what I love, I think it's really interesting. How do you give customers the information they need, whether that's online, bringing in the store experience? How do you make sure that those experiences are somewhat connected? Yes, and I've been at Brilliant Earth almost three years.
Michael LeBlanc 03:17
Wow, that's great, that's Fantastic. Now, and so expand on Brilliant Earth a little bit, stores, online.
Lisa Perlmutter 03:22
Yeah, we were started as a mission driven business, started a really and that's what Lauren and I were talking about together. Started really about how do you change the jewelry industry from within. It was back in the days of, you know, the Blood Diamond movie, do you remember? And you know, the founders really thought, hey, th, - there should be no human suffering from diamond mining, and really founded this business on that premise. And then since then, you know, in addition to ethically sourced gemstones and diamonds, it's how do we think about recycled gold? How do you think about sustainability? How do we think about inclusivity? And just, just a really mission driven organization, which you don't see that much in the jewelry category?
Michael LeBlanc 04:03
Yeah. How now, how does someone in your category? You know, I've been talking about table stakes versus differentiators. And early on your approach, you know, conflict free, blood fried, that would have been a, you know, a differentiator, it's not really a differentiator much anymore. So, how do you think of that in the context of the spectrum from being different you know, from being (inaudible) that's a table stake wow what makes me different, I still see it's a big value proposition to your brand, right? So, (inaudible) how do you think about that?
Lisa Perlmutter 04:31
I think that's a really great point. I'm, I'm happy to say it's no longer a differentiator, I'm happy to say, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 04:36
Yeah, we're all happy about that, (crossover talk), -
Lisa Perlmutter 04:37
Right, on the natural diamond side. That's, it's great that that's become table stakes. I would say as we think about how to make more things, table stakes, it's differentiators now is 92% recycled metals. You know, gold is actually one of the worst things in the world to mine from the earth. So, how do we use more recycled metals, both in gold and you know, other precious metals?
Michael LeBlanc 04:58
(inaudible) do you think they'll be a day where consumers are enjoying manufactured diamonds. I mean, you know, I also worked for the shopping channel, which is like QVC North, and of course we had our own brand. You know, you got an engagement ring lately, you know, -
Lisa Perlmutter 05:13
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:14
How you feel, what is a real or not real? I mean, you can tell the, the not real ones are absolutely perfect versus the flawed. Is there is there a movement or a differentiator? Like, how do you think about it, Lauren?
Lauren Thomas 05:23
I think so, right. And you can probably attest to the fact that (inaudible) probably already happening, right? You have some consumers that are, are totally okay with that. And, yeah, so I, I feel like, you know, maybe it's starting with that, that younger generation, and I think there's a certainly an, a level of education that's involved. But yeah, I, I feel like, -
Lisa Perlmutter 05:44
Well, yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:47
The rare earth versus, -
Lisa Perlmutter 05:49
I know, we so we, we like to offer our customers whatever they would want, lab created, -
Lauren Thomas05:50
Sure, -
Lisa Perlmutter 05:52
Mined diamonds, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:53
Right, -
Lisa Perlmutter 05:54
They both have a place in, in the ecosystem, we believe. Just, you know, for the record lab diamonds, they're actually made of the same chemical material. They're all made of carbon, and it's just how long it's been pressed. And how long it's either has been manufactured, a lab or the earth, -
Lauren Thomas06:07
Right, -
Lisa Perlmutter 06:08
Created over a few million years. But you know, we do see space for both.
Lauren Thomas 06:13
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 06:14
Right, right on, -
Lisa Perlmutter06:16
We were, we want to offer the, the products, -
Lauren Thomas 06:18
Versus are there some, I'll, I'll jump in with a question (crossover talk) too like, some companies, some brands, you know, have gone all in one way or the other, right? I mean, you see some of that. So, maybe the hybrid approach you found is the best way to, to go.
Lisa Perlmutter 06:32
Yeah, we, we, we do see some brands, -
Lisa Perlmutter 06:35
We'll be sure to go all in on lab created or go all in on, on natural. We, for our customers, we want to offer breadth of choice, breadth of price point choice, -
Lauren Thomas 06:35
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:40
Yeah, -
Lisa Perlmutter06:41
By the way, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:45
And look as well and look and feel, right, (crossover talk), look and feel, -
Lisa Perlmutter 06:47
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc06:48
Let's talk about you, Lauren.
Lisa Perlmutter 06:50
And look and feel, -
Michael LeBlanc06:52
Large, you know, larger, more, more statement pieces that hit a price point, (crossover talk), that are different. All right, -
Lauren Thomas 06:54
Yeah, sure, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:56
So, you know, a very familiar face, certainly, to those who follow retail, you've done as we've discussed amazing job following in the retail industry. But tell us a little bit about your background, -
Michael LeBlanc 07:03
Yeah perfect. So, again I am I Lauren, I cover the retail industry for CNBC. I've been there a little more than five years now. It's crazy, it just feels like a long time within the journalism world, (crossover talk) maybe anywhere. But yeah and so, really, (crossover talk), you know, -
Lauren Thomas 07:03
Sure, -
Michael LeBlanc07:05
What you're doing for a living and let's start there.
Lauren Thomas07:14
Yeah, perfect.
Michael LeBlanc 07:21
Can we, can we call you a veteran retailer reporter, (crossover talk), now, -
Lauren Thomas 07:22
(crossover talk), I feel like I am you know, (crossover talk), I know I'm you know, I'm young, I may be young, younger, but certainly it feels that way. You know, and, and you know, because you see people come-, come in and out, -
Michael LeBlanc 07:34
Sure, -
Lauren Thomas07:35
And, and there's, there's a bit of a, a turnover, maybe and, -
Michael LeBlanc 07:37
Yeah, -
Lauren Thomas07:38
And people kind of evolve on in the in their careers. But yeah, I've kind of ridden it out, obviously, I, I got to know the retail industry and companies and kind of certain evolutions, you know, prior to the pandemic, and then got thrown into that, in early 2020. It felt like 2020 was the year of, you know, bankruptcies, which I know, we discussed a little bit on the on the last podcast that I was on, a lot of distress and kind of companies finding their, their footing.
Lauren Thomas 08:03
And then 2021, was a bit of a, you know, there had been that shakeout and so, it was like, you know, businesses, maybe were back on solid ground, the consumer was back out and spending. And so, now it's 2022 and are we staring down a recession, you know, when and, -
Michael LeBlanc 08:14
Right, -
Lauren Thomas08:15
When and if that is going to come? And yeah, it's, it's, you know, I feel for retailers and just having covered them in this in this period of a few years. And just like, all the things, I mean, including you all that you have to adapt, you know, sometimes at a moment's notice, like literally, and, and now just trying to figure out what, what that industry is going to look like, if and when, you know, we kind of go into this, you know, economic down downturn for, for a sustained period of time. So, yeah, again, you know, going back to your question cover the retail industry, you know, it's, it's a little bit of everything. It's companies like Brilliant Earth, -
Michael LeBlanc 08:50
Yeah, -
Lauren Thomas08:51
Your digitally native, native players, and then you know, the stalwarts, like a Macy's or you know, Gap.
Michael LeBlanc 08:57
If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform, so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be right back with this special 2022 CommerceNext Ecommerce Growth Show bonus episode, right after this message.
Michael LeBlanc 09:15
After two years of unprecedented growth, some think eCommerce has hit its peak. So, what comes next? As businesses look to enter the next year of eCommerce growth, CommX serves as a guide to get them there. Led by best in class technology providers across the commerce ecosystem, including Bloomreach, Miracle, Cinch, ShipBob and Avalere. CommX offers exclusive research, benchmarking, data and more. Empowering businesses to deliver a commerce experience that drives measurable revenue growth. Learn more at commerce experience dot com, that's commerceexperience.com.
Michael LeBlanc 09:46
You were on the podcast about a month ago and nothing has happened since then that I can think of, -
Lauren Thomas 09:50
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc09:51
Oh, wait, a few things have happened, -
Lauren Thomas 09:52
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc09:53
Right. So, there seems to be you know, I think we'd all agree that the retail apocalypse narrative was kind of misinformed, -
Lauren Thomas 09:58
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc09:59
It was more a, -
Lauren Thomas 10:00
Yeah, over done, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 10:00
Though there is tremendous transformation happening, but now we see some at least by value of the market, some digital native vertical brands in the past kind of month. Is this just a moment in time, like you've covered extensively, and, and we see some shortfalls and, and, -
Lauren Thomas 10:13
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc10:14
Is th-, is there something else going on? And then I want to talk about this, the whole idea of, -
Lauren Thomas 10:18
Sure, -
Michael LeBlanc10:19
When and if a recession, -
Lauren Thomas 10:20
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 10:21
But I want to cau-, get back to that. But what's your perspective on what you've been observing for the past month?
Lauren Thomas 10:24
More recently? Yeah, I mean, it's so one example and I don't know if you're referring to the story. Revlon, a, a big cosmetics giant, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, just a few days ago, -
Lauren Thomas 10:24
Can't, can't get enough stuff to make our product apparently.
Lauren Thomas 10:39
I know, right? I mean, that was they (inaudible) be sure, you know, they had they had a lot of debt, they have their own troubles, kind of on the back end, where they literally just didn't have money to, to pay for stuff. But at the same time, you know, the, the supply chain issues that the company was facing, did really weigh, weigh them down. And so, you know, now they're trying to restructure, and they've got some financing that will help carry them through, and, and we'll see what it looks like, you know, on the on the other side for them. But yeah, I mean, that kind of sparked this bigger conversation of like, okay, that happened to them, like what, what else could we see kind of transpire in the retail industry? I think it's going to be a case as it always is of winners and losers, right? There are certain businesses that are in categories, you know, jewelry, I feel like has been one of them, jewelry has held up so well, during the pandemic. And now you've got the year of the wedding, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:26
This has got to be the year of the wedding, right? This and next year, right?
Lauren Thomas 11:29
The year of the wedding? Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:30
Like this, this has got to be this year and next year, right, (crossover talk), -
Lauren Thomas11:33
The, the claim is the most weddings in 20 years, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:35
The most weddings in 20 years. Well, we know what happens in three years after the most weddings in 20 years. So, I guess, (crossover talk), you would be thinking about that for the year of the baby boom, right?
Lauren Thomas 11:44
Yeah, exactly, exactly. But who knows, so, so categories that, you know, our holding up fairly well. And, and certainly you, you have this divide also of you know, the higher end income consumer is still doing well, or maybe better off than the lower income consumers. So, we're watching that divide kind of play out and almost intensify, I think, is probably going to be a theme, you know, from, from, here on out. And the holiday season, you know, I just feel like it's going to be ev-, every year I'm like, I think that (inaudible) every year that I've done this, I always think this is going to be like the most interesting, like holiday, most dynamic holiday ever. And then like the next year, it's, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 12:19
It's another most, yeah, yeah, -
Lauren Thomas 12:21
Yeah, it always keeps getting more fascinating.
Michael LeBlanc 12:22
So, I was talking to with my first guest this morning, Sucharita Kodali, from Forrester, -
Lauren Thomas 12:27
Yeah, yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 12:28
And, and we got to talking about a couple things, one of which was this, I asked her, are we are we talking our way into a recession? Like, -
Lauren Thomas 12:34
It's a great question, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 12:35
Because you know, the numbers, and I, I had the opportunity to interview the chief economist from, from Deloitte and I asked him the same question. And I said, all right, you know, there's going to be a recession, I mean, that's not an if, it's a matter of when and how severe. But he said, you know, I don't see it in the numbers and, and Sucharita was saying the same thing, (inaudible) is that there's a lot of talk about it. But when you look at the fundamental numbers of like, you know, employment in the United States is almost, there's, no employment, right?
Lauren Thomas 12:34
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc12:35
Practically, if you take into (inaudible). So, (inaudible) how do you how do you what's, what's your lens on? I mean, -
Lauren Thomas 13:06
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 13:07
It's obviously a part of the narrative and a part, (crossover talk), of the story, and companies make it a part of the story that everybody's worried about it, you know, how do we get ready for it? But is it just going to happen because consumer confidence just gets battered by the talk about tougher times ahead. Like, how do you, (crossover talk), how do think about that?
Lauren Thomas 13:22
(inaudible), it's a great, I know, I agree. I think there and there's so many different data points and, and numbers that you can look at too right? There, there are dozens and dozens of surveys kind of on this stuff. I mean, you look at what I think a big thing is what, you know, some of the big banks are, are saying and what they're predicting, I feel like that's always been an important indicator in the past, I think it was Jamie Dimon kind of made headlines, a few weeks back when he described it as this hurricane situation on the horizon, you know, you're speaking to your recession, and I know that, that got a lot of pickup and, and people, you know, paid attention to that, you know, pay attention to things that he predicts, you know, this big, big bank? I don't know, I don't I don't know, you know, I'm not I'm not a an economist, per se, -
Lauren Thomas 14:09
Nor, nor do you have a crystal ball, by the way, right?
Lauren Thomas 14:11
Yeah, but the one thing I guess I'll say is, I mean, I do I, I talked to a lot of these retailers and executives. And it does seem like everyone has that plan in place for a contingency plan, so to speak, for, you know, (crossover talk), when that, that happens, -
Michael LeBlanc 14:27
All right. Lisa, let's, let's get back to what you were talking about on the panel, sustainability in the role of sustainability. So, you know, consumers, in, in my experience, have always had this difference between what they say and what they do around sustainability and green, though the, the you know, I always would frame it, there's some consumers who make a decision. I call them dark green, every decision is driven by sustainability. And on the opposite end of the spectrum is people who couldn't care less about sustainability and that middle point it's been moving towards concern about sustainability, (inaudible) in your category? You know, where's my product come from? How do you see it and how do you position around it carefully? And what are you hearing from your customers in terms of its role in the buying process? It's, it's talked about that a bit.
Lisa Perlmutter 15:11
I mean, there's a million studies we could talk about. One of them is, you know, two thirds of customers in the millennial and Gen, Gen Z are buying only from brands that have their shared values, like their shared values, whether that be about sustainability, or inclusivity, I can tell you that what we see from our customers is, is, you know, they don't just want, they're really demanding to know these things. Like there, there is a movement here it is, it's real, we're excited about it, because, (crossover talk) we think it's the right thing to do for everyone.
Michael LeBlanc 15:39
Well, you've, you've been doing it for 17 years. So you're, (crossover talk), -
Lisa Perlmutter 15:42
It's also the right thing to do for the planet, and the next generation and my kids and your kids and all that good stuff. So, you know, I, I do think that more and more people, especially when it comes to highly considered purchases, and I haven't been in the fashion industry for a while, so I can't speak to that. But on the, the highly considered purchases, I think people are much more in tune and much more make a final buying decision based on that, even if it costs a little more.
Michael LeBlanc 16:10
Do you, do you see that and I've heard from other retailers is this, this moving point about maybe I'll spend $1 this year. I was going to spend $1 but I'm not going to buy five items at, at 20 cents, I'm going to buy one item for $1. Are you are you getting any sense of that from like, I'm going to invest in other because that's a very good way to be sustainable too, I'm not going to buy a lot of jewelry, I'm going to buy that one, highly considered fine piece that I'm going to keep for the rest of my life kind of thing.
Lisa Perlmutter 16:35
Yeah, we, we are seeing that and you know, we, we see people saying like, yeah, hey, I'm not going to buy throw away jewelry, throw away clothing anyway, like, I'm going to, I'm going to really invest and in things and, you know, something we're, we're excited about doing is you know, we really promote circularity. So, whether that means bringing in your old products and having them created in something new and beautiful, using that recycled metal, -
Michael LeBlanc 16:58
And do you have a program that facilitates that. Talk about this say more about that?
Lisa Perlmutter 17:01
Yeah, so customers can bring in sort of items from Grandma's. I don't want to you know, buy items from Grandma's attic, whatever it is, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:08
Sure, sure, -
Lisa Perlmutter 17:10
In the fine, obviously in the fine, fine jewelry category. And we can take that and, and buy that back from them and, and create something really beautiful but as they want. We also really look at repairs, so our jewelry repairs is really thinking about longevity of a product, right versus always buying new. So, how do you just extend the life of products versus and that was talked about this morning as well? Like how do we as, as retailers shift and pivot like think about repairs for a longer term? Think about trade-ins, think about up-, upgrades right?
Michael LeBlanc 17:40
These things are good pragmatic traffic drivers too, right? I mean, they get people, -
Lisa Perlmutter 17:44
Absolutely, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:45
Back into your brand because they you know, -
Lisa Perlmutter 17:47
Diamond upgrades, it's a great example, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:50
Diamond upgrades, -
Lisa Perlmutter 17:53
Right. So, if you buy a setting and you love the setting and the design, you later, a few years down the road, you want to upgrade your diamond like that's, that's something I think is great as well so, -
Michael LeBlanc 18:01
Hmmm, interesting. All right, last question, Lauren. I'll start with you this two. the idea that two starts and one stop. So, you're a great observer, (crossover talk), -
Lauren Thomas 18:10
From my, my point of view, -
Michael LeBlanc 18:11
Your point of view what, what from taking in all that like how many conversations you have a week with, (crossover talk), within the retail industry, -
Lauren Thomas 18:18
A lot of different people, -
Michael LeBlanc 18:19
A lot of different people, a lot of senior levels but also a lot of different moving parts. Two things you would advise retailers, eCommerce marketers to start doing and one thing that your, (crossover talk) you think isn't working as much, -
Lauren Thomas 18:30
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc18:31
Yeah, that you're hearing in the market, -
Lauren Thomas 18:32
Right now, right now.
Michael LeBlanc 18:33
(Inaudible), really excited like getting ready for the holiday I mean we're, -
Lauren Thomas 18:36
Yeah totally, -
Lauren Thomas 18:36
Well, let's think through I mean. one maybe a start would be this is from what I've heard it's got too much we've got a lot of inventory. I was speaking with someone yesterday his advice or their advice and I think this is shared from other folks that have spoken to as well. Discount now like kind of the expectation in the industry is that promotions are coming within certain categories so it's almost best to just get out ahead of it, you know put some put stuff (crossover talk), on sale, -
Lisa Perlmutter 18:36
We're now getting ready for the holidays, Black Friday and the holidays, right?
Michael LeBlanc 19:02
July is a good month for that, right, (crossover talk), -
Lauren Thomas 19:04
You also have you've got Amazon holds its annual, you know it's a made up manufactured holiday but Prime Day is right around the corner and I know Target and some of these other companies are they always kind of match and do deals around that, that day as well. So yeah, I think an opportunity there is, -
Michael LeBlanc 19:20
Sleep on your inventory as the kids would say, right?
Lauren Thomas 19:22
Yeah, just get out before it gets you know, it's going to get really messy, I think noisy and, and that's kind of the expectation as the year drags on again in certain categories, I think where inventories have piled up but apparel and home goods are, are two good examples of that. I'm trying to think of the, the well, can I skip to the don't, -
Michael LeBlanc 19:40
Sure, -
Lauren Thomas19:41
I will skip to the don't and then I'm going to come back to another do. Don't, I would say don't, I've seen a lot of brands get into NFTs in kind of this, this web (inaudible) world without really having a great strategy or a reason to do it. You know, and, and having a substance there, I guess, with, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:02
But you us get, you must get pitched these stories, right? Hey, we're doing this, we're you know, -
Lauren Thomas 20:06
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:07
Because we're doing, -
Lauren Thomas 20:08
Sure and I get that I get that brands want to be kind of you know, to have a play there in, in this, this world but I just think there's still I, I don't think you have to like rush out in front of it, so to speak like if it's going to be there, it's going to be there. So, I would just, you know, from, from just watching, you know, different not speaking to any companies in particular, but I just feel like there's been this, this rush into that world. And, and, and it doesn't always make sense, right. So, that's, that's my don't. I don't know, my other do would be talk to me. I guess, you know, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:43
Pick up the phone when you call, right, (crossover talk). Don't be afraid pick up the phone, -
Lauren Thomas 20:46
No, no it's just always appreciate the, the transparency for sure. No, I mean, I know, I don't know, I think it's, it's a an interesting time. Again, there's so much going on just within the economy, right. And I think businesses are trying to navigate that for sure. But I think at the same time that there's going to be really interesting stories to tell around how companies do navigate that, you know, period of time, rather than, than kind of going dark and quiet. And, you know, I get that, you know, maybe there are some obstacles to work through. But I just think it'll make for very interesting stories of companies that, you know, manage through it, and that are better, you know, on the (crossover talk), other side of it. So, yeah, it's good, you know, hopefully a lot of good stories to be told in the coming months.
Michael LeBlanc 21:29
All right, Lisa, let's talk about two starts one stop. And then maybe we'll talk about that, you know, when do you know the sweet spot between do I play along with other promotions or do I let them have their own? That's a whole other, (crossover talk), -
Lisa Perlmutter 21:40
Jewelry is an interesting category, though, I feel like for you know, I don't know how many deals there are in (inaudible) that, you know, in that space, -
Michael LeBlanc 21:47
Would you describe yourself as a, a, a everyday or a high low retailer, pri-, like price wise do you do deals to (crossover talk) generate traffic, and
Lisa Perlmutter 21:56
We were not really a promotional company, we don't we don't discount, we don't (crossover talk) strike your pricing. That's just not who we are, frankly, (inaudible) start doing it could be a race to the bottom. So, -
Michael LeBlanc 22:07
You know, the problem of the race of the bottom is sometimes you win, right?
Lisa Perlmutter 22:10
That's a fair point. But the bottom keeps thinking when you're, when you're, -
Michael LeBlanc 22:13
Well, that's what I mean, you don't want to win that it's a race, you don't want to win. (Crossover talk). Two starts one stop from your perspective, -
Lisa Perlmutter 22:20
One start well, since I was talking about sustainability, and that's kind of core to who we are, I would say companies need to kind of large and small, big and small really look at even small things. Every, every team member can make changes. I was speaking on the panel like, it's everything from the paper, you buy, is it recycled and recyclable all the way to, you know, the packaging you buy to send your products in, the packaging, that packaging comes in, right. Like we get the things you don't even think about that actually can be impactful and forcing functions with the vendors you work with, -
Michael LeBlanc 22:51
Get into that value chain and pull it apart and find those, -
Lisa Perlmutter 22:54
And, and find and ask questions of the vendors and suppliers you're using, like really use this as a forcing function time, especially wherever happens to the current, current market? I'd say that's, that's one start. The other start I would say is, you know, we're coming out of COVID, there's a lot of hybrid teams, I would say there's, you know, I think there's still a good deal of burnout and still a good deal of like, what is a new hybrid work environment mean? I don't, I don't have a crystal ball of what its going to look like. I live in San Francisco and I don't think anyone's quite figured it out. But I would say, you know, start trying to work with team members to see what's going to work for your team, long term, you know, I think, and really addressing kind of burnout and keeping the team members you want happy and engaged, (inaudible) just focused on focus on the team. And, and that, (inaudible) who drives your business every day.
Michael LeBlanc 23:44
And what are you going to do less of as you head into the, -
Lisa Perlmutter 23:47
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc 23:48
The holidays, -
Lisa Perlmutter 23:48
The stop. I am going to work, Black Friday's almost here, tick tock, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 23:53
It's around the corner, (crossover talk), I tell ya, -
Lisa Perlmutter 23:54
You're telling me and Amazon's created an additional Black Friday, -
Lauren Thomas 23:58
Right, -
Lisa Perlmutter23:59
We're, we're thankful for that. What am I going to stop, I would say I, I will take a take one from, from a Lauren's and add, add to that of like, just stop doing some things, -
Lauren Thomas 24:10
Right, -
Lisa Perlmutter24:11
Like you got never ending to do lists. Your team has never ending priorities. Find a few and just stop doing them. Like if they're not driving value, they're not making your team's happy, they're not find them and cross them off and tell people not to focus on them and focus on other things. And I think we don't we don't do that check balance enough, I don't do that check balance enough because I'm excited by new things.
Michael LeBlanc 24:32
I was talking to Charlie Cole from FTD and we were talking about priorities and I'm a big trilogist, I like things in threes. Because you know, some you are tempted always to go in front of boards and executives, okay, here's the seven things you're going to fi-,
Lisa Perlmutter 24:44
70, -
Michael LeBlanc24:45
Seven, 70 things but eventually, you, you know, if you, you kind of look back and said I'm never going to get, -
Lisa Perlmutter 24:50
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc24:51
Quality progress on any past three to five, right, if, if all goes well, so I think that's a great piece of advice. Well, listen, thank you both for joining me on CommerceNext. It's wonderful to meet you both and Lauren, great to see you again look forward to your reporting about another very busy, (crossover talk), -
Lauren Thomas 25:06
No I won't I won't drum it up, you know until it happens, -
Michael LeBlanc 25:09
Really, all right, well, we can get we can count on you and again for the retailers and listening pick up the phone when you call and, and share and thank you both for being on the podcast, (crossover talk), have a great day.
Michael LeBlanc 25:21
Thanks for tuning in to this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure to click and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week.
Michael LeBlanc 25:31
And check out my other retail industry media properties the Remarkable Retail podcast, Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and The Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my all-new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbecue with new episodes each and every week.
I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company and Maven Media. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
Have a safe week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Lisa, Lauren, Michael, sustainability, buy, ecommerce, companies, podcast, retail, retailers, retail industry, differentiator, business, category, jewelry, brands, consumers