Meet Michael Appel, a seasoned senior executive with over 50 years of experience in the retail industry, including turnaround CEO at Rue21. As the Managing Director at New York-based Getzler Henrich & Associates, he leads the Retail Practice for the firm, specializing in operational turnarounds for retail businesses.
Meet Michael Appel, a seasoned senior executive with over 50 years of experience in the retail industry, including turnaround CEO at Rue21. As the Managing Director at New York-based Getzler Henrich & Associates, he leads the Retail Practice for the firm, specializing in operational turnarounds for retail businesses. We talk about the state of retail today, the role of social media and the China Factory Direct model, what has actually changed with the modern consumer and what has stayed the same, what it takes to compete in 2024 and beyond, and what it takes to come back from the brink and creative a positive forward momentum. Let's listen in now.
You can reach Michael at C: 917-789-3615
Michael Appel is a Managing Director at Getzler Henrich & Associates, based in New York City. Michael leads the Retail Practice for the firm.
Michael has expertise in women’s apparel, accessories, menswear, childrenswear, and all categories of home furnishings across department stores, specialty stores, luxury, off-price, and direct response channels of distribution. Michael graduated from Brandeis University (Phi Beta Kappa) and has an MBA with Distinction from Harvard Business School. Over the years, he has served on multiple corporate and non-profit boards, including serving as the Chairman of the Compensation Committee for Charming Shoppes, and as Chairman at Loehmann’s.
Select experiences include:
Currently, Michael serves on the Board of Ashley Stewart, Inc., the Advisory Board of FIT’s Global Fashion Management MBA program and is a member of The Fashion Group and the Turnaround Management Association, where he served on their National Board, and was Chairman of the TMA Awards Committee.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. My name is Michael LeBlanc, and I am your host. This podcast is produced in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Meet Michael Appel, a seasoned senior executive with over 50 years of experience in the retail industry, including turnaround CEO at Rue21. As the Managing Director at New York-based Getzler Henrich & Associates, he leads the Retail Practice for the firm, specializing in operational turnarounds for retail businesses.
Michael LeBlanc 00:31
We talked about the state of retail today the role of social media, the China factory direct model, what has actually changed, but the modern consumer and what has stayed the same, what it takes to compete in 2024 and beyond, and what it takes to come back from the brink and create a positive forward momentum in modern retail.
Michael, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing this morning?
Michael Appel 00:53
I'm doing great.
Michael LeBlanc 00:54
Fantastic. Where am I finding you today?
Michael Appel 00:57
I am in Manhattan.
Michael LeBlanc 00:59
All right now, is that where you're from, where do you live, are you in that area, talk about that?
Michael Appel 01:03
Well, I-, I live in Manhattan and on the east end of Long Island and I work for Getzler Henrich, whose offices are in Madison and 41st. That's our corporate headquarters.
Michael LeBlanc 01:14
What's your background and what are we doing on the mic and what do you do for a living?
Michael Appel 01:18
Okay, so I'm the Managing Director and lead the retail practice at Getzler Henrich and Associates, which is a financial restructuring and performance improvement consultancy, aimed at the middle market and I lead the retail practice their Getzler has been in business for over 55 years and they are now part of the Hilco Global family of companies and-
Michael LeBlanc 01:43
Big shop.
Michael Appel 01:43
Yeah, and well, we're a boutique within the framework of a much larger company that-, Hilco that has like 26 operating companies and-, and Hilco is in many businesses from-, from advisory to monetization of assets, anything you can think of many of those companies touch upon retail.
Michael LeBlanc 02:05
So, you said mid-market, define mid-market for us, put a-, what's the parameters around that?
Michael Appel 02:08
Middle market, we define middle market anywhere from, you know, companies, small companies of 25 to 50 million up to a billion dollars.
Michael LeBlanc 02:17
Okay, okay.
Michael Appel 02:17
So that would be the-, the trajectory, you know, we don't do the major bankruptcies or performance improvement cases like Bed Bath and Beyond or Target. You know, we focus on middle-, middle market companies, of which there are many, both in the retail and consumer product space.
Michael LeBlanc 02:35
Now, in your, for your firm, you said you're a boutique firm, do you work outside of the US, or do-, and two-part question, do you work outside of the US? You probably have retailers who have you know, stores around-, around the world potentially and what makes you different? What makes you guys stand out as boutique and successful in what you do?
Michael Appel 02:54
Well, the firm has been in business for, you know, for 55 years and what-, what the state-, what our point of difference is that we have very experienced managing directors and consultants that have great industry expertise, as well as financial restructuring expertise and frankly, we get very personalized services at prices that are very advantageous compared to the Big Four you know, AlixPartners, Alvarez, et cetera. So basically, we deliver the same quality of work and affordable prices for the middle market clientele.
Michael LeBlanc 03:32
Okay and do you work outside of the US?
Michael Appel 03:34
If-, if we need to, yeah, it all depends on the clients.
Michael LeBlanc 03:38
Sure.
Michael Appel 03:38
We travel extensively. So, you know, definitely, it's been quite a-, we've done quite a bit of work outside of the US and Canada and, and if the-, if the client-, if the if the assignment takes us outside the US, absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 03:53
Okay and what-, talking about yourself a little bit more, what do you, what's your background? How did you get into this business and what do you bring to the table?
Michael Appel 03:59
Okay, so my-, I started in the business, way back when at Bloomingdale's, and I started as a merchant, I bought hard lines, and I ended up running the children's division. Then-, then I-, I was the chief merchant at a company called Fortunoff, which was the precursor to Bed Bath and Beyond and then I've run a series of specialty retailers from Laura Ashley to Baccarat Crystals to Wilkes Bashford. I'm very agnostic when it comes to the merchandise category and the-, and the channel of distribution.
Michael Appel 04:35
Most reas-, and so-, and I've had my own-, over the years, my own firm and for the last two years, I've been working for Getzler. I also have done a lot of work as interim CEO, COO, CRO as well as going into industry. So, from 2017 to 2020. I was the chairman and CEO of Rue21, which a is 750-unit specialty retailer focused on juniors and I led the turnaround of that-, very successful turnaround of-, of that company when it emerged from, from Chapter 11 and in June of 2020, joined the board of Ashley Stewart, which is a plus sized specialty retailer focused on the African American woman. So, so I've done-, I've also done a lot of board work as well.
Michael LeBlanc 05:24
You're-, it's interesting, it's interesting listening to you, because you-, you-, you have the language and lens of a real merchant, you know, even in the way you described your-, your roles as senior operating and leader. So, it's clear, lots of experience. So that's why I was excited about chitting and chatting with you. So, let's, let's talk about-, let's talk about the state of retail today.
Michael LeBlanc 05:42
So, you know, I've been in this business a long time, and not as long as you and not as a senior levels, we both probably seen a lot I mean, geez, what a wild ride over the past couple of years, the, the highs and lows of the COVID era, right, you-, you had big winners, and you had big losers, often not for their own-, you know, not because of their own thing. They just happen to be in the wrong place, the wrong time, selling the wrong stuff. I mean, unicorns, these digitally native brands, their-, their value just collapsed, e-commerce is growing and leveling off. Oh, my goodness, there's a lot to talk about, but if you had to sum it all up, what's your assessment of the state of retail today?
Michael Appel 06:17
Okay, well, the state of retail, you know, retail. Retail has always been a challenging business, right, because retail is the is the business that's closest to consumer and the consumer is changing and the advent of technology as an integral part of running retail businesses has accelerated the pace of change, both in terms of being able to give retailers more tools as well as, as giving consumers access to so much more information. So-, so you know, if you look at the history of retail over the last 100 years, there's always been new entrants in disruptors and people who we thought would last forever, you know, like Sears Roebuck, no longer in business, right. And yet they were the dominant retailer for decades in the United States. That continues to happen, right? There's always-, there's always someone new with a new concept, entering the marketplace that-, that is able to, to really answer consumer needs or, or develop needs that customers didn't think they had. Right. In that regard. How do
Michael Appel 07:23
So-, so you know, if you look at the history of retail over the last 100 years, there's always been new entrants, new disruptors and people who we thought would last forever, you know, like Sears Roebuck, no longer in business, right and yet they were the dominant retailer for decades in the United States. That continues to happen, right, there's always there's always someone new with a new concept, entering the marketplace that-, that is able to, to really answer consumer needs or, or develop needs that customers didn't think they had, right, in that regard.
Michael LeBlanc 07:26
How do you think customers have changed? So, I hear that a lot and I think I think they still look for a great product at a great value. The-, obviously, some of the media has changed, you know, they can shop online, but they could shop from catalogs before.
Michael Appel 07:39
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean-
Michael LeBlanc 07:41
What do you-, what do you think it is like, if-, I'm asked, I'm often asked that, what has really changed about consumer behavior in the context of retail?
Michael Appel 07:47
Well, I do think that in terms of consumer behavior, is-, they have access to so much more information, right, and their purchase decision. So a lot of the leverage has shifted from the retailer who used to, you know, they used to tell the consumer what they needed to buy, to-, to the consumer, who has access to a lot of information and it's not just either in store or on e-commerce, it's the whole advent of social media, which has changed a tremendous, you know, has-, has, has changed the-, sort of the whole landscape. Right, in that, that they're looking, right.
Michael Appel 08:24
And so that's, that's a big change and, and also, I think that consumers are now you know, because of Amazon, right, the-, with Amazon, you know, free delivery, delivery in an hour, et cetera, everything-, the pace has picked up, but yet at the same time, I think your comment is very well taken in that really what-, what do retailers do, right? They're in the business of buying and selling merchandise and, and if they do a good job doing that, right, and execution, it's not always that easy. They will be successful.
Michael LeBlanc 08:55
What do you think of these-, you know, you mentioned Amazon, and they were certainly a huge force, are a huge force. What do you think of this new China factory direct model and of course, I'm speaking of Shien and Temu, they, they seem to be disrupting Amazon. I mean, they're leveraging international postage rates and, you know, they're laying a bit of-, a little bit of a narrative against this. I'm only going to shop with, you know, retailers that I believe are ethical, or at least behave properly. What do you think-, what do you think of the model, and do you think it's the risk that everyone considers it to be?
Michael Appel 09:29
And so, what-, you know what it's-, it's, they're certainly a disrupter, okay, but, you know, they're not the only fast fashion retailer out there. If you look at H&M and, and Uniqlo and-, and-, and-, and Zara they've been in that fast fashion business for a long time. The difference is that you know, the-, the sort of the rock bottom prices and huge assortments that are always changing, but it's really-, it's really the-, the price for the product that that's getting them, and they're not necessarily shipping to consumers, you know, the next day, when you look at it, that might be two to three weeks, because they're waiting to see whether enough not enough consumers want to be, you know, want to buy that item before they place their orders with the with the manufacturer.
Michael Appel 10:15
And the other thing, the one thing that that is driving the popularity of it, it's not only the huge assortment, but also the prices and they may have made use of a 321 process whereby, if you ship to one consumer less than $800 worth of goods, you're not paying duty, and that's giving them a 25% - 26% advantage over-, over people that are importers or people that are making in the United States. So that, you know, that's enabled them to do it.
Michael Appel 10:46
The-, the issue about-, about-, about what's interesting about Shein is that, you know, it's a $45 billion company, but they're now starting to make, they're doing a couple of things. One is they're looking to produce in the countries where they have big businesses, which is going to be interesting because I don't know how you make a-, I don't know how you make a t-shirt in the United States that you can sell for 99 cents and make money.
Michael LeBlanc 11:11
Not legally anyway.
Michael Appel 11:12
Correct. So-, and then there's also the longer term issue of how important is sustainability and how important is, you know, sort of ethical and moral, yeah-, sourcing to the consumer and, you know, you have to sort of break it down by-, by demographics when you're dealing with teenagers, right, when I, you know, when I was, was running Rue21, we did focus groups on that issue about sustainability, et cetera. Well, our customer at Rue was, you know, a young teen, gallon guy with not a lot of money and basically, their attitude was, we love the idea, but we're not willing to pay more for it. Okay and so, but if you're buying, if you're buying Stella McCartney, right, and you know, she's doing mushroom leather, leather for you know, $1,200 for a bag or something like that, well, you know,
Michael LeBlanc 12:06
Hard to afford, right.
Michael Appel 12:07
Right, you can do it.
Michael LeBlanc 12:08
Yeah. It's, it's fascinating, you know, we could spend a whole half hour just talking about this, this paradox of what people say and what people actually do.
Michael Appel 12:16
Right, right.
Michael LeBlanc 12:17
Well, my last question on that, and then we'll get to some other stuff. What do you think about their tie up with Forever 21, I mean, there's starting to use-
Michael Appel 12:22
I was gonna mention that. Interesting, right because they're starting to change their model and they're saying, you know, we need to sell in stores, right, in order to sustain our growth.
Michael LeBlanc 12:32
Yeah, they've had big success and pop ups, they did one here in Montreal and Toronto, people are lined-, like-, you know, people lined up down the street. I mean, it's a buzz, right, it's a buzz. Good for that industry.
Michael Appel 12:43
Yeah, and also, look that-, you know, it's-, it's-, you know, AVG is saying, okay, well, how are we going to-, how are we going to sort of salvage Forever 21, right, I don't think it's doing that great. So, this is, this is a sort of an interesting combination, right, where they're hoping that there's-, there's synergies that are, you know, mutually beneficial.
Michael LeBlanc 13:03
It's like tossing-, tossing one of those big lifesaver circle things in the Hudson River, right. Here you go. Let's see if this works and yeah.
Michael Appel 13:10
Right. I mean, one way or the other, if it works, great, if it doesn't, they still have a $45 billion a year business and growing. So
Michael LeBlanc 13:17
It’d be a downside at this point, right.
Michael Appel 13:19
Right. Exactly, exactly. I mean, the-, the issue, the issue, too, is that there's been a lot of-, a lot of people have been complaining about the quality, so that when they get it, it's not, you know, it doesn't mean-,
Michael LeBlanc 13:33
You might as well ship it direct to a landfill, right?
Michael Appel 13:35
Well, you know, that's what some people are saying and for others, and it all depends, you know, for a young team, they're gonna wear it once anyway, what do they care, right and then it goes in the pile on the floor in their bedroom, right and then they buy more stuff?
Michael LeBlanc 13:47
Becomes a penny in the car, right, and you mention-, you mentioned-, you mentioned social media. I mean, you know, I was-, I was actually doing a keynote presentation to TJX merchants yesterday and somebody asked me what I thought about and how much they should put in-, in social media just generally is a retailer and I say I, you know, with my clients and you, I don't even ask what your budget is just double it. On the one hand, you got to play on the other hand, it's a bit of a distorting thing, right, in terms of what and how people buy stuff and-
Michael Appel 14:15
It's just, it's another point of information and contact, okay. So when you're looking at it, and what you're bringing up is something that, I think is something that retailers have to really think about is in order to be competitive today, right, you've got to be omni-channel stores, e-commerce, and you've got to be active on social media and that means that the cost of doing business has gone up a lot and, and that retailers have to understand and probably faster than then what, you know, retail sales are unless you're, you know, you're really hot. So, you've got to figure out a way to play in those channels, and still wring more efficiencies out of your operations.
Michael LeBlanc 14:57
I mean, or do you. I mean and I'll give you two examples yesterday, you know, speaking to the 300 merchants from TJX, no e-commerce to speak of, they just posted great numbers and then you've got Primark. I've talked to the presidents and leadership of Primark as well. They said, listen, the model doesn't work for us, we can make money doing it. So, we're not going to do it, but they're still successful, right, so are they-, are they the exception to the rule or are they telling us something.
Michael Appel 15:23
I think in the value, yeah, I think in the value segment, in that treasure hunt segment, off price, that that model works better, because the customer is, you know, part of the experience of buying from those retailers is the treasure hunt, right?
Michael LeBlanc 15:37
Yeah.
Michael Appel 15:37
And that's always been the case.
Michael LeBlanc 15:38
Yeah.
Michael Appel 15:39
So, you know, it's not always that easy to replicate that online and you know, they, they have more than enough customers and more than enough sources of supply, right, more than ever, to keep the heat in the racks full and also, what's been happening is-, is that they're-, they're getting access to, you know, better brands. So-, so, you know, they're continuing to-
Michael LeBlanc 16:05
Surprise and delight. You know, it's a good segue to my next question. I mean-, let's talk about-, let's talk about success and failure. In some ways, it's a weird way, but I think the COVID era, hit the snooze button on a bit of-, a bit of business, if not transformation, I mean, I would regularly talk to the media, you know, usually Q1 of any year, most of the retailers who are in trouble kind of declare for one reason or the other, you know, why, and we had a bit of a lull in some weird way, like even think of the department store sector, we had a bit of a lull. There's been some notable exits, like, Bed Bath and Beyond that you mentioned, but, you know, what, what's your assessment of the days ahead, are we-, is there, I don't want to call pent up demand for people getting into trouble, but what do you think is ahead? And then we're going to talk about what do you think makes the difference between winning and losing today? What's your-
Michael Appel 16:53
I think that-, I think it's-, that's a very good question and it's on a lot of people's minds and I think if you really look back, over the last 20 years, there's just been a bifurcation in performance between those retailers and brands that have their act together and continue to innovate, invest in technology, and really mind, you know, their customers and understand their customers, and those that are sort of treading water and with, with the, you know, low interest rates, and easy access to capital, you know, a lot of these companies sort of got a-, got a pass and it's going to be interesting to see, now that interest rates are up, money's tighter, okay. So, they're being more selective.
Michael LeBlanc 17:36
And they bought a lot of, you know, I call it the great buy forward, we bought, not necessarily all in apparel, but we bought a lot of stuff during the COVID era, right?
Michael Appel 17:44
So, we're only talking about a few percentage points differential, but that could be-, but that doesn't mean that, you know, you'll have Lululemon that might be up 30%. And then you have other people that might be down 20%, right, because they don't have their act together and consumers are being more selective. So, they're saying, I'm going to shop with the-, with the winners, or the people that really understand me. So, it'll be interesting to see what happens and also, you know, part of it is whether or not the lenders or the private equity owners are willing to push the button and say, you know, what, time to move on.
Michael Appel 17:44
Because what else do we have to do, right, we'd stay home and couldn't go out and, and if you look at the United States, the United States has always been a consuming economy, right, our customers love to buy. So-, so and I don't think that's ever going to change just like when, you know, when people talk about, well, what about Christmas and I say, well, you know, there's going to be winners, and there's losers, but Christmas comes every year, all right.
Michael LeBlanc 18:43
Well, a couple of quick follow ups, did you see in the news, and I had to give a good laugh. The-, who's the CFO of BestBuy called it fun-flation. People had money, but they're spending them on, you know, $600 Taylor Swift tickets. Did you detect a post COVID behavioral change and consumers, where they're a little more, I mean, there's two narratives here. One is that consumers are a little more focused on experiences, we thought that would happen, right? Pent up-
Michael Appel 19:06
Right, course.
Michael LeBlanc 19:07
Oh no-, no question there, but the recent Wall Street Journal article talked about, well, you know, what, people are buying a little more stuff, because the-, you know, work from home. I know, in Manhattan, what did I read that there's the equivalent of like, 30, Empire State Buildings on occupied, I mean, this is a big deal in the economy, don't you think?
Michael Appel 19:24
Yeah, well, yeah. Well, it's like everything else, right. It's things change and so and you also have, the younger generation has a different attitude towards life and the balance between work and leisure time, right and me-time, and so what you're seeing is, yeah, they're going to be if the-, there's 30 Empire State Buildings, you know, empty in New York, it's even worse in San Francisco, which is a disaster and, and so in Manhattan, you know, when I think what will happen in Manhattan is, is that, you know, there's a shortage of for affordable housing or housing period, so I think you're gonna see repurposing of the real estate.
Michael Appel 20:05
You know, the industry has always done that you're seeing that you're seeing that in the, you know, the CND malls. Right, that's happening, where there's excess capacity anyway. So, I think that those are still assets, right. What-, right now and what you'll see I think in, in the real estate, part of it, is that there's going to be-, you know, it's going to be very active in restructuring, and that's going to be restructured, and then people will be able to, investors will be able to buy those properties at prices where they can afford to transform the asset, right?
Michael LeBlanc 20:36
I think some of those buildings, though, anyway, we don't want to get too off into this, but I know that a lot of those buildings just can't be repurposed. I mean, I'll buy bulldozer stock before buying them, because the modern office building, nobody wants to live in the center of a modern office building, right, right. So, there's a percentage,
Michael Appel 20:52
You know, what?
Michael LeBlanc 20:54
Never say never, right?
Michael Appel 20:55
Never say never and clever-, clever real estate people can, can, you know, find ways of doing it and you know, the big thing now, if you look in Manhattan, and you look at the construction that's been going on, is that the amount of amenities that they're offering to people who either rent or buy, and that becomes more, you know, and again, that that sort of goes into the experience, right, it's not like you, it's not just it's your apartment, your condo and that's it. It's like, there's a gym, there's a there's a, you know, a swimming pool, there's a, you know, a-
Michael LeBlanc 21:31
There's a wagon of things, you know what I mean.
Michael Appel 21:34
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 21:36
You've been-, you've been saying, kind of a last big question for you been saying, you know, the difference between winners, and those who are less successful is getting their act together. So, let's talk about advice. What is getting your act together mean and I'll frame this for you and two things that listeners, my listeners, retailers should start doing, and one thing they should stop in your language is getting their act together, what do they need to do to survive and thrive in 2024?
Michael Appel 22:01
Well, I, well, I sort of call it back to basics, okay. You know, retail, retail is not brain surgery, but execution is difficult and you have a cons-, and-, and my play, if I, you know, with my clients, I have a certain playbook, right and the playbook is the first thing you need to do is really have a deep understanding of your consumer and the consumer segments and a lot of retailers, believe it or not, don't have the research, consumer packaged goods, people, of course, they're always driven by the research, but a lot of retailers don't and so the first thing you need to do is gain a deep understanding of your customer and your customer segments, because customers for retailers or you know, are not all the same and they have different behavioral and attitudinal profiles and so you need to understand that and when you understand that-
Michael LeBlanc 22:47
Is that the red flag for you, so when you go in to meet with somebody who might be getting into trouble, or just, you know, talking about your services, and you don't, you want to hear first about how they understand their customer at depth. That's, that's a big first thing for you, yeah?
Michael Appel 23:02
Absolutely. First thing I ask is, you know, I want to see the research on your consumer, and more often than not, cons-, you know, companies that are challenged don't have any, all right, or it's old, or it's not up to date and it's the kind of thing where we don't spend the money to invest in that, well, if you don't invest in understanding your customer, all right, you're behind the eight ball right away because how can you-, how can-, that informs your strategy that informs every piece of your strategy, so that's number one. Number two is really you have to-, you have to have an A team, you have to have a team that has the capability of executing the strategy that you've developed for that company. So that's that and then-.
Michael LeBlanc 23:44
Let's stop on that because I've been involved in a-, in a-, in a bankruptcy with a retailer and-, and you know, I was brought in by private equity of a new team and, and you're right, they, you know, they really assemble a, they focus assembling a top team, but the talent gets harder and harder to hire, no, as the as the drain as you start to circle around the drain, you start to lose the talent, like-
Michael Appel 24:05
But they are there though I mean, there's enough people out there and sometimes you have to look at, at-, at around the edges, you know, you can't-, you can't look at the traditional, you know, the way the search firms defined it all.
Michael LeBlanc 24:19
You're not bringing over the CEO from Macy's, maybe you bring in somebody like yourself a workout expert, and somebody's who's like-
Michael Appel 24:24
Depending on the situation, exactly and there's a lot of talented people that are no longer in the industry. All right, but what would come back for the right situation, or there are people that are ready to go to the next step and that they don't see a path to that-, in their current companies. So, you know, I think that the-, the there's enough talent out there if you're if you're willing to be open to understanding, you know, what-, what-, what are the, the, what's the expertise that's required and, and matching that with-, with-, with people, you know, there an awful lot of-, there's an awful lot of smart people out there. So, I can't say that retail is necessarily, you know, overflowing with them in some of the current companies we look at.
Michael LeBlanc 25:11
Let's, what's the number one, I don't know, what do we call it a mistake or misunderstanding that you come across and that you'd like to say, listen, I that may have worked before, but it's not working now and it won't work in the future, what's that number one thing that pops out?
Michael Appel 25:26
Well, I sort of call it, it's sort of a denial factor, okay, which is, a lot of managements in these challenging situations feel that all they have to do is do what they're doing better, right and that that'll fix the problem, instead of saying, we need to start doing things differently. All right, we need to invest in technology, we need to get the research we need, you know, the kind of the building blocks, we need to fix the product, right, that's the other thing is like, you know, with all the discussion of e-commerce, and AI, et cetera, there has been a lack of focus on, you know, it all starts with-
Michael LeBlanc 26:04
The product.
Michael Appel 26:05
The right product, and I think and differentiated product, right, why do you have a reason for being, right, why did people come to you, because you have product that they-, that, you know, that they relate to and feel works for them and I think that we're not talking enough about that and then the other piece that I don't think we talked enough about, especially in store retail, is how do you recruit, train and retain frontline employees.
Michael Appel 26:35
It is a huge, huge issue that people aren't paying enough attention to, and I've done work over the years, with a fabulous company that's based outside of Toronto called Axonify. Have you ever heard of them, I have, I have, okay and they, and we actually use them at Rue, when we were about to launch our loyalty program and we needed to be able to train our, our associates in 750 stores to explain, you know, get people to sign up and, and, and help them in that loyalty program and they did a fabulous job and you know, today AI powered learning system that-, that-, that does a wonderful job in terms of employees and the idea is that learning is a continuous process, it's not one and done, right?
Michael Appel 27:26
So, so I think that, you know, the focus, the focus on frontline associates is tremendous, because if you look at the ROI, if you're able to, first of all, you've gotta hire them, right and, but, but that's-, that in some ways, you pay enough, you hire them, but then if they're trained and engaged in the business, they're going to stay and that means that they're going to be much more confident in-, in dealing with-, with the customers, and that will drive revenues and, you know, just the cost of turnover, which people don't calculate is enormous, and has always been a big issue in the retail business.
Michael LeBlanc 28:02
Yeah, no kidding. That's and you know, my last comment on that is this isn't a short-term challenge, right, we could see demographics is a-
Michael Appel 28:09
Oh, absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 28:10
A long term challenge. Well, listen, it's been great. Where can folks-, are you a LinkedIn guy, where do they get in touch with you and where do they learn more about your shop?
Michael Appel 28:17
Well, I have a posting on LinkedIn under my name, and then a Getzler Henrich is located on 295 Madison Avenue in New York. My direct number is 917-789-3615 and my email address is M. Appel. mappel@getzlerhenrich.com. I know it's a tongue twister, but-
Michael LeBlanc 28:44
All right, I'll put it in the show notes. Well, thanks for joining me on the pod. It's been great, great chatting, you got such a depth of experience, both historically but more importantly, today and tomorrow. So, thanks for contributing and thanks for joining me on The Voice of Retail continued success and have a great rest of your year in 2024.
Michael Appel 29:03
Thank you. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.
Michael LeBlanc 29:07
Thanks for tuning into this episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, follow on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically each week. And be sure to check out my other retail industry media properties, the Remarkable Retail podcast with Steve Dennis, and the Global E-Commerce Leaders podcast.
I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, senior retail advisor, keynote speaker, Rethink Retail 2023 Global Top Retail Influencer. If you want more content or to chat, follow me on LinkedIn.
Safe Travels Everyone.
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