Live from Dublin, meet Martin Bailie, a global retail executive with an impressive 30 years of proven expertise and experience within the global food and fashion retail industries, including c-Level roles at Lidel, Primark and Tata/Tesco in India. In a wide-ranging conversation, mics across the pond, we cover the critical issues in modern retail from a European operator's perspective with someone on the front lines of retail innovation and retail technological change his whole career.
Welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. My name is Michael LeBlanc, and I am your host. This podcast is produced in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Live from Dublin, meet Martin Bailie, a global retail executive with an impressive 30 years of proven expertise and experience within the global food and fashion retail industries, including c-Level roles at Lidel, Primark and Tata/Tesco in India. In a wide-ranging conversation, mics across the pond, we cover the critical issues in modern retail from a European operator's perspective with someone on the front lines of retail innovation and retail technological change his whole career.
About Martin
An exceptional leader, change manager and cultural architect, with over 30 years proven expertise and experience within the global food and fashion retail industries - Pan Europe, South Asia and NE America.
Skilfully blends commercial, financial and brand leadership with a visionary strategic overview and an analytical, comprehensive knowledge of local and global context. A solution-focused and innovative practitioner, highly responsive to current and emerging trends and flourishing within two of the leanest operational models for 23 years.
Universally acknowledged as a gifted and responsive driver of sweeping strategic and operational transition; transforming efficiency, dynamism and fluidity to achieve measurable increases in market share.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada and the Bank of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience with Levi's, Black & Decker, Hudson's Bay, Today's Shopping Choice and Pandora Jewellery.
Michael has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated worldwide in thought leadership panels. ReThink Retail has added Michael to their prestigious Top Global Retail Influencers list for 2023 for the third year in a row.
Michael is also the president of Maven Media, producing a network of leading trade podcasts, including Canada's top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail. He produces and co-hosts Remarkable Retail with best-selling author Steve Dennis, now ranked one of the top retail podcasts in the world.
Based in San Francisco, Global eCommerce Leaders podcast explores global cross-border issues and opportunities for eCommerce brands and retailers.
Last but not least, Michael is the producer and host of the "Last Request Barbeque" channel on YouTube, where he cooks meals to die for - and collaborates with top brands as a food and product influencer across North America.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. My name is Michael LeBlanc, and I am your host. This podcast is produced in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:13
Live from Dublin meet Martin Bailie, a global retail executive with an impressive 30 years of proven expertise and experience within the global food and fashion retail industries, including C level roles at Lidel, Primark and Tata Tesco in India. In a wide-ranging conversation, Mike's across the pond, we cover the critical issues in modern retail from a European operator's perspective with someone on the front lines of retail innovation and retail technological change his whole career. Let's listen in now.
Michael LeBlanc 00:41
Martin, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How you doing this morning?
Martin Bailie 00:45
I'm doing great, thank you very much. Afternoon for me, because this is two sides of the pond as you said, Michael.
Michael LeBlanc 00:51
That's right, the two sides of the pond podcast interview. Where's, where are we finding you this morning?
Martin Bailie 00:57
So yeah, yeah, I'm in Dublin. So, I've been here since 2012. I'm a native, I am from Northern Ireland. So yeah, all the way from Dublin.
Michael LeBlanc 01:06
Fantastic. Now, it's pretty hot over here right now, we're talking early September. How's the weather been this summer in, in Ireland?
Martin Bailie 01:15
Yeah, so maybe traditional Irish weather in July, so raining constantly. But I think it was mixed across the world in terms of what it should have been as a summer. But as we speak today, we are hitting 24 degrees, which for Ireland is extremely hot.
Michael LeBlanc 01:31
I was gonna say it's balmy there. That's absolutely balmy in Ireland. That's great. Well, very good.
Michael LeBlanc 01:36
Well, now that we've done the weather report, let's get in, we'll get into how we know each other and your background. But let's start with all about you. Tell us about yourself, your background and what you do for a living.
Martin Bailie 01:49
Look, thanks, thanks Michael, for having me, obviously, as I said earlier on, it's been a while that we've been trying to plan this. And I think it was actually two sides of the retail pond, so my apologies for that. But I'm glad we're here, that's the key point.
Martin Bailie 02:00
So my name is Martin Bailie. Born in Northern Ireland, educated in Scotland. I've got over 30 years’ retail history. Started with Tescos, and then grew my leadership capabilities with Lidel over 15 years in total, eventually reaching COO, so Chief Operating Officer for UK and Ireland. I moved down into fashion with Primark as the group board executive for retail so went from food into fashion. And then returned to accelerate my growth exponentially as the CEO of Tescos and Tata joint venture in Mumbai. So guiding them through obviously a very tough pandemic, as we know in India, and moving from a single, single channel to an omni-channel within literally a matter of weeks, because the world obviously changed.
Martin Bailie 02:47
So, look, I've been extremely blessed enough to have leadership experience over three continents, 10 countries, but predominantly in the discounter world with, with Lidel, and with Primark. But today I help essentially companies grow as the founder and CEO of MWB Advisory Limited.
Michael LeBlanc 03:08
Well, what background, I don't know, where do I start? So, I, you know, I remember I was sitting in a meeting in Stockholm, and we were talking about, and this is like, 25 years ago, where the, where's the future growth in the economy and the world? Is it China or is it India? And, and, you know, we've seen China as a nation grow, we've seen it now experiencing some growing pains, so to speak. And now there's a big focus, I think there's a G20 meeting coming up, one of these G meetings coming up in India, and everyone seems to be refocusing on India. Long thought of as high potential, I think Walmart just doubled, or tripled, or quadrupled their investment in the Instacart, not the Instacart, but the Flipkart.
Michael LeBlanc 03:50
So see, you know, I mean, listen, there's a lot of people there, challenge of infrastructure, what's your take on the future of that nation? It's always long been held as potential. What, it's the biggest speaking, biggest English-speaking democracy in the world? I mean, the statistics are overwhelming. You've been there, you've operated there. What's your perspective on the short?
Martin Bailie 04:11
Yeah, so, the potential remains vast. Obviously, there have been substantial growth pre COVID. And obviously, like any country in the world, it took obviously a hit through COVID. Although the resilience of 1.4 billion people was phenomenal, again leading in during this pandemic, to see the likes of Tata, the likes of Reliance, these big organizations and conglomerates, leading through such adversity and it was adversity, but coming through stronger. If you do any research on India, it is the number one place to be. I can see why, not just because of size of country and number of populations, but the capability capacity that the Indian culture has, the Indian education has. It is English speaking, as you already mentioned, and actually been able to harness that in a country that vast, I am not surprised that the outlook for the growth is actually number one in the world.
Michael LeBlanc 05:14
Fantastic. Let's take a different tack to your background. Lots of great leadership positions around the world. So, you know, from when you first started your career to today, what are the biggest differences that you would perceive in the world of retail? Like everybody perceives things moving, things are moving faster. But I remember 30 years ago, we were saying things are moving faster. Do you, do you perceive any genuine changes in the world of retail between when you started and today?
Martin Bailie 05:43
Yeah, I'll probably want to lean in with that first part. Certainly, when I started off in retail, I was running a million miles. And I think even today, that is the case. But it's a different way of thinking about it. I've probably made it quite simple for the audience as well.
Martin Bailie 06:00
So look, for me, again, from being a discounter, in particular, retail was very process and system optimization, that was the mindset it was continual improvement run fast, get there quicker kind of thing. Where today, it's actually full scale, digital transformation, which you and I have spoken previously off camera, we've spoken about the digital transformation is essentially cultural transformation. So, I would say, when you're looking at the rise of the Internet, the rise the omni-channel, the change on the consumer, actually, digital has played a bigger part on enabling fast track agility. And agility means something completely different today than it did 30 years ago, years ago, or 20 years ago. So that would be the first one.
Martin Bailie 06:46
The second one, especially coming from an operations guy in particular, the very, we were very historically product centric in terms of approach, where today is customer centric in terms of approach, and I think that's vitally important. Although there's added value where you have emphasis on product because we sell products, but actually it was that customer insights, the ability to know your customer, to gain that loyalty, there's much more added value moving away from a product approach to a customer centric approach.
Martin Bailie 07:20
And then the obvious one, especially coming from two discounters, bricks and mortar to the rise of omni-channel and the move towards that digitalization, I said at the start. So, the importance of having the ability to speak, to communicate, to engage with the consumer, let it be on social media, in store, on your app, where, on your website, I think that seamless customer experience has accelerated and is no longer just the physical box.
Martin Bailie 07:50
But I will, after 30 years, and knowing that level of transformation, and even foreseeing the future of 2030, the store box will still have as much relevance as it did 20 years ago as it will in the future. It's just added on with the ecosystem, and that seamless interaction in the box and out of the box. So that would probably be the three big changes in 30 years of retail.
Michael LeBlanc 08:15
You know, you strike a bunch of threads that I've been talking about. You, I was trying to accomplish much of what you were saying, you know, back in 2020, with Hudson's Bay. We had nine million people in a loyalty program and oh, my God, it was hard. Because you know, we had giant databases on premise, or on prem as they would say. I mean, the cloud, for example, it's just been such a big enabler of those things you're describing, right? That, a lockstep of improvement and accessibility of massive data storage that's kind of off prem. And by rent, I mean, it's pretty revolutionary.
Michael LeBlanc 08:48
And, yeah, let's just spend another minute on that. So, my perception was in talking to a lot of executives that you talked on agility, is that the perception of agility versus planning a change during COVID, I think there is a prevailing wisdom, so to speak, that we could plan our way out of everything that there is a five-year plan. This isn't to confuse it with a strategy, but that executives discover that, 'We don't know what's coming next, we have no idea. Like, we don't really know how to plan that well. So, let's really focus on agility'. Is that a cultural thing that is making a difference between retailers who are winning, and being less successful, that that agility, the willingness?
Michael LeBlanc 09:29
I know when I started it, you had to have a project ready, from start to end, all the T's crossed and the I's dotted. Now, we seem to have adopted, which I think is a good thing, the you know, the, the Silicon Valley minimum viable product approach, which is let's get it, get it good enough and get it into market because we don't know where it's gonna wind up anyway. Do you, is that what you're hearing from your clients and how you have?
Martin Bailie 09:52
Yeah, definitely it’s an (inaudible) scenario, you need to, you need to ensure that your decision making, your strategic thought process, is combined with natural retailing as well as the data driven decision making. And I think that's important in terms of direction. But you're right, during COVID, especially as a CEO, we were probably in version, P&L 20, within 12 months. So, you couldn't necessarily plan too far ahead. But what you knew that you had to solve today, in order to ensure that you had a future for tomorrow, and that was the God's honest truth.
Martin Bailie 10:30
And I think the importance there is agility has been able to ally large organizations, medium organizations, and there was always probably small anyway, around the importance of breaking through red tape. What was probably, and it's back to this cultural transformation that we mentioned earlier on, it was the ability of unity and collaboration and silos being dropped. And I think that allowed speed to decision making with the right people, at the right time, at the right pace, with the right review. And I think, because we all had the same purpose, during COVID, a lot organizations dropped the silos became as one as could be. And I think that's probably the perfect answer, in terms of cultural agility is actually the same as business agility.
Michael LeBlanc 11:22
Have you heard from your clients any, I don't want to call it regret, but you know, all the things you described, that happened during COVID, the speed of movement, the unifying force, I mean, it was one of the rare times, let's hope we don't have to go through it again, where we were all had a mission, everybody's mission was the same, to get through this, maybe its liquidity, whatever was, you know that that mission is kind of less clear today, it really needs to come from internal leadership. Which in some ways is a little more difficult I think with things like remote work, and just the fast-paced culture. Did we go backwards a little bit, or do you think we've had lessons learned that have stuck at the leadership level?
Martin Bailie 12:01
I think there has, to answer it simply, there has been a shift that's been done. I think the shift is correct. In terms of different organizations that's taking it too far, that you see, are slightly retracting, the perfect one is working from home. I don't I think the decision at the time, and have you got to bear in mind that during those two years in particular, there was no crystal ball, it was a blank canvas, there was things coming at you left, right and center. So, you were making the best decision at the right time. And I think even if there is this, whatever we send, everybody's retracting from working from home, they're building the decision making of maybe bringing back to the office based on science, human science, as well as evidence in terms of productivity efficient innovation. So, I think it's okay, if there is a slight reset backwards, or maybe even a, not a regression, but a progression. And how do you find that hybrid work life balance from a business point of view and a personal point of view? And I think we're much wiser, there's a wee bit more stability, although it's tough out there still at the moment for retailers, and we can discuss that later on. But I think it's okay for these decisions to be, I don't think it's regression, I think, actually is progression, because actually, there's no evidence to what works, what doesn't work on behalf of the culture of that company, the workforce of that company. But I think the shift in that direction was undoubtedly the right and it'll stay that way. So, there's a new base is probably the best (inaudible).
Michael LeBlanc 13:32
Let's talk a little bit more about retail technology, specifically AI. I think you're very much involved in AI, you mentioned it off the top, I think you're sitting on, you’re on the board of a US AI based startup. So, you know, AI has been with us for many years. But of course, it had its, you know, pop culture moment with the chat GPT and all this kind of stuff. But practically, I've thought of AI of one of the most powerful technologies, many are overstated in the short term and underestimated in the long term. How do you sit and what, what impact are you seeing today and, and what, what are you excited about the, for retailers from what you're seeing and the companies you're working with?
Martin Bailie 14:13
So, look, as you've already said, I sit on the advisory board of Quorso, which is an AI generative platform that supports retail and hospitality. But AI has been transforming retail sector and startups have played a crucial point in that innovation space, but that would have been pre COVID. If you want to think of it that way. I think it's accelerated, perhaps because if you think of what has happened during COVID, we had a broken supply chain, therefore a broken business model. We had the need to digitalize extremely quickly because the consumer wanted a change in retail. So, there was kind of all of these big crisis came at once so an imperfect storm rather than a perfect storm.
Martin Bailie 14:57
But I think coming out of that the ability to link your data, the ability to have a learning rhythm. Because it is a new world and is ever change and I think AI hits that sweet spot, essentially that's what AI is in terms of a learning tool. And I think when I use the likes of Quorso, in particular, look, it's a great retail product, but I think it's run by great people, which is really an important thing.
Martin Bailie 15:25
Because there's a lot of, there's a lot of positive stories out there about AI, there's some caution, precautionary stories out there about AI. And I think it's important, any startup, any mature AI service provider needs to be able to explain, understand, and have an element of empathy of any retailer that wants to engage with them, wants to talk with them, maybe wants to buy or rent or whatever that product is. And I think, if I use the example Quorso, it's actually great, it's a great retail product, run by great people that is an enabler for the digitalization of a smart store, and indeed up the value chain. So, I think AI brings a lot of relevance today. And I've explained probably the reason why it's 10x, because of COVID, and post COVID, based on the definite challenges that the business model had during the last three years,
Michael LeBlanc 16:20
You know, someone with your background would be highly popular with startups. So I'm sure you had a choice. So why did you choose the Quorso folks, it sounds like you'd like the people. First and foremost, tell us a little bit about the solution, what, what is it solving? I think you've broad stroked it, but you know, what's the elevator, here's this, what this company does? And I'm asking, because it really continues to help me articulate, or understand the role of AI practically, because it's a big word, or short word but it's thrown around a lot. So, what, what is this, this particular thing solve for, for retailers?
Martin Bailie 16:58
So, I think it's important, as you said, if there's going to be a brand collaboration, my brand versus their brand, it needs to be the alignment of the purpose and the alignment of the people. So, for me, that is the number one thing.
Martin Bailie 17:09
In terms of Quorso, it is a real AI startup that provides, like a platform of performance management and improvement for the retail and hospitality business that I mentioned earlier on. It leverages a live AI and data analytics to help retailers identify areas of improvement, set their own targets in their own ecosystem, track the progress within the store, within a cluster of stores, within an enterprise wide, and then obviously base them against the targets they've got. So it is that type of learning AI, which I've mentioned earlier on. But the Quorso platform enables the business to optimize their operations, to drive sales and to prove the overall performance.
Martin Bailie 17:53
And they've got live cases. And their biggest partner, although they have many in-store numbers is Dollar General. And the impact that having in Dollar General is a great case study, which would take a lot more than our interview, maybe we can do it another time. But,
Michael LeBlanc 18:09
We'll put a link in the show notes.
Martin Bailie 18:11
I believe in the people and the purpose. I see the product, I see how, and understand how it will help today's retailers in terms of transformation, digital store, smart store, ability to have more efficiency, efficiencies with its, within store management, which is delegation, which is obviously review.
Martin Bailie 18:31
I think one of the things that as a retailer, especially even working in stores, it was always the line so you can give a store manager a list of 10 things, 100 things, they're going to do naturally the easiest thing first, or maybe not the best thing first in terms of return. This actually digitalize that gives an examples if you do this, in this priority, the return is this. And that is the why and if you can create the why then you're going to do the right thing, at the right time, with the right person, and the right return. That's the sentence I didn't have 30 years ago. It was just right people doing the right thing. But it's a completely different thing. And I believe Quorso and an AI platform like that can do that very quickly.
Michael LeBlanc 19:15
I started to think of AI, as kind of our last question on AI, about it being a leveler of the playing field. You know, when I started ecommerce in 2000, it was like a million dollars to take a credit card and then now you've got thing, platforms like Shopify, which makes it easy to get into doesn't make it easy to win, but at least kind of solves that. So, it levels the playing field. Small businesses, midsize can have the same capabilities as large. Do you see AI doing that as well as, is products like this accessible do you think? Are we, are we there yet where the mid-size retailers can compete, or have that opportunity to compete thanks to tools like that are there with AI?
Martin Bailie 19:54
Look, I would fully agree with the observation in my view, like the earlier days that technology was complex, it was actually quite clunky. And it was inaccessible by the big players, as we already know. But if you kind of think about what you've already mentioned earlier on, around platforms like a, Open AI, Google Cloud, Microsoft, Amazon, they've already kind of brought the ability to accessibility, therefore affordability. And if you think of large organizations, and medium organizations, and even small organizations, it is accessible, is usable, is now probably more advanced than ever before. And as a result, you get a better output. So it is that collaboration between technology, human, and then enterprise wide, probably in that order. But the priority is the interaction between the human and obviously the AI tool, it is a tool, it's a copilot that we call in Quorso. It is there to support; it is there, it is not there to replace to be extremely clear. So, I find that, that level of accessibility has made it now more relevant to the masses. And I think this is a brilliant thing if used correctly in the in the right ecosystem, of course.
Michael LeBlanc 21:06
Let's shift gears a little bit, in the news last week, there is a Canadian connection with a European retailer. So, Wilko was rumored to be in the sights of a entrepreneur from Canada named Doug Putman, who bought HMV and here in Canada he's been buying up, he bought Toys R Us out of bankruptcy, he bought Bed Bath and Beyond, 20 locations and opened his own Bath store. He's quite, quite a believer and now there's a connection you know, just kind of popped up that he's actually considering that.
Michael LeBlanc 21:36
So that way is, I say that as, as kind of a, an overview from you about how is retail in Europe? I mean, it's a big ask, but you know, you're closer to Europe than I am. You know, I, we see the rise and fall we hear, I hear about the fall of the High Street. How's it going in, in, in Ireland and in England, and in Europe in general, broad stroke once again, but how's it going?
Martin Bailie 22:05
No, that's okay. So, the retail landscape in Europe has undergone significant challenges and changes in recent years. You gotta bear in mind, the EU is a collective amount of countries of which in January 2020, just as COVID was heading, we had obviously Brexit where the UK had left the EU. Literally a month later, we had COVID, then very sadly, we had the war in Ukraine in February 2022. So, we find ourselves in a perma crisis, which obviously is extended periods of instability and insecurity from a series of catastrophic events that I mentioned earlier on.
Martin Bailie 22:46
So there was the shift to online retail, the challenges for the High Street, which we're going to talk about in a second, we've got obviously the competitors between them online marketplaces, everybody went omni-channel because that's what the consumer wanted. Sustainability, sustainability and ethical consumerism became near enough priority one. And you're right, there was casualties in the High Street.
Martin Bailie 23:08
And you mentioned them earlier on Wilko. This is a UK based 1.2-billion-pound business, 12,000 employees, homeware, and houseware goods retailer, and it went into administration in August 2023. So that is a huge chunk, over 400 stores UK wide, that's a big player that obviously has struggled, essentially, post COVID during COVID, and coming out of COVID, as we mentioned earlier on. So that is a big thing that is only a couple of weeks old.
Martin Bailie 23:42
And the other one that was today was obviously Walgreen's Boots, which the CEO has left the business, the CFO has exited the business. We have a share price that's halved in a matter of years. And according to today's claims that there'll be shutting 300 Boots in the UK, and 150 US stores announced also foreclosure.
Martin Bailie 24:05
So, there is, there, that's bringing it to relevant today, European Canada and it's all one, all one globe at the moment in terms of ownership, etc. That's two big retailers that would have been definitely considered as popular, relevant, but obviously would have lost an element of that as well.
Martin Bailie 24:27
But like anything, it's not all negative, it's not all doom and gloom. There is definitely massive positive, positives in the premium sectors in retail and the value sectors in retail. Now, it's very obvious, the value players win when times are tough and disposable income. So obviously being somebody from Lidel, I know this, and they are obviously definitely posting over 22% LFL growth on a month-to-month basis. So, it's safe to say you're, your players like Lidel, or even Decathlon, which is the sports value player, Primark, obviously on the High Street and Champion that High Street, so you've got the value sector, definitely humming at the moment because they are the customers champion in terms of value. But actually, they, they're, the premium sector, Burberry, Louis Vuitton, Mono Prix in France, for example, they're seeing also large-scale growth based on their base, of course, because there is a -
Michael LeBlanc 25:27
A bifurcation, right, that we call it -
Martin Bailie 25:30
Exactly, and I think at the moment, if you're not in the middle of that, and you're not either identity, you have a major, major, major challenge. And I wouldn't want to comment on the examples from before, but if you do sit in the middle, it's going to be very tough.
Martin Bailie 25:45
So, you're gonna have to find, being the customer champion dependent on the customer that you're serving, which I mentioned earlier on, but there still is positives, the High Street will still definitely be challenged, as the conditions even eased slightly, we're not out of the woods. So, we're going to have to see and protect, I hope, the High Street, as you've already mentioned, there's various investors that are wanting to purchase, or buy, or whatever the request is, as many large-scale investors, please do so because we don't want to lose that High Street, but it's going to be challenged. And I give you those two recent examples. In the last couple of weeks, Wilko and Walgreen's Boots.
Michael LeBlanc 26:25
Yeah. So, let's talk about Primark for a few seconds. So, with my Remarkable Retail podcast, Steve, and I interviewed the president of Primark, US and then we were at the World Retail Congress and, and the CEO, Paul was there hosting us on a tour, us and our fellow attendees. And we saw their wonderful store in Barcelona.
Michael LeBlanc 26:44
And one of the questions that jumped out at us, and you'd have a particular perspective on this is, you know, they kept telling, you know, 'We're very customer focused', and Steve, and I said, 'Well, I'm sure your customers are saying they want eCommerce, but you're not giving them eCommerce'. So, talk about, I guess, an example there, and there's more, of retailers that are successful without, now they're very digitized, I'm sure behind the scenes, but in terms of to the consumer, and they're succeeding without a full eCommerce in, in the US. You could talk about TGX, right in Canada, US no eCommerce, no, you know, and they're very successful. So, I guess are they the exception that proves the rule? Or is it, is it because the value based or what are your thoughts on that? I mean you've got firsthand experience.
Martin Bailie 27:29
Yeah so, you've obviously mentioned a few others along with Primark and fashion you've got Lidel and Aldi outside of Germany doesn't have a huge eCommerce either, and next to nothing to be precise. So, it's the ability to be relevant is the ability to know your customer inside out, it is the ability to have an ecosystem that communicates.
Martin Bailie 27:47
So, if I just use Primark as, as an example, their digital footprint in terms of social media is unmatchable globally, it is phenomenal. So, they know their customers, they can still reach their customers. And they obviously still satisfy their customers because of great fashion, a great price, which is obviously their slogan, and they stick to.
Martin Bailie 28:07
So, I think there's an element of being, being assured that your DNA is bricks and mortar and prove it and be obsessive with your customer journey. Be obsessive with the changes in the store operate model, which every retailer has, but even if you read recently, Primark is obviously trialing clicking collect, it's in stores, so they're already moving in that direction. So, for me, I think, for any retailer that isn't pure omni-channel, it's making sure that you are obsessive about the relevance of your store, your location, your offering, your value proposition, and you're incentivizing a customer that you know more deeply than your own family, if you want to think of it that way. And I think that's the ability that these retailers have.
Martin Bailie 28:54
In the future. It may be different, because there is obviously a future generation that will be even more tech savvy and will want and demand shopping elsewhere. But I am 30 years later through this type of transformation, I am 100% assured that in the future business model, the bricks and mortar will definitely be as relevant as it was 30 years ago, it will just form a different ecosystem in my view.
Michael LeBlanc 29:25
Last question for you advice to retailers and I'll put it in the framework of a two starts and one stop. Two things they should start doing and one thing they should stop doing. Maybe that's something you've seen that's just not working anymore, or something you see commonly done that, that doesn't work. What's your, what's your advice to the listeners?
Martin Bailie 29:43
So ethical considerations probably the easiest way to say it. ESG, I know probably you were thinking I was gonna go tech. But in order to, in order to retail in the future, and satisfy the customer of the future, you need to be ethically founded and grounded well in all of your practices, in your offer, in your value chain, and the ability to communicate. So we got to be thinking about the planet. I'm extremely passionate about this.
Martin Bailie 30:14
And I think if a board, and a culture, and therefore a global culture, bearing in mind, retail is one of the largest emissions of CO2, nearly 11% of global emissions is through a retail ecosystem. So, we've got a lot of work to do in retail. But it's not just about satisfying the customer itself, it's actually about doing the right thing. And I think, I think every board has recognized that for a number of years now, not a lot, but a number of years now. So, it's important, I think, for everyone to ensure that technologies, digital ability, digital complexity, with the right solutions, is going to help us speed up the ESG agenda, hit our targets in advance, and become a better world. I know that sounds very top level, but I'm extremely passionate. And -
Michael LeBlanc 31:06
Do you worry, do you worry that actors, I'll just randomly pick a news item from last week, Shein and Century 21, that actors that pay no attention to those things, you know, are winning. I mean, they are Temu, another startup that I perceive doesn't really concern themselves with ESG. Maybe that's just my perception. But are they the, are they an outlier? They seem to be very popular with consumers who say that you care about these things. I mean, I don't want to dwell on them as an exception that proves no rule. But what do you, it feels like, I've talked to retailers who say, 'Yeah, but if I if I do some of this, I feel like I'm I don't know if I want to say tying one hand behind the back. That's a bit extreme, but it's like, 'Hey, I look over there and this competitor is paying no attention to any of the things that I think are important that you articulated that I share are important', how do you how do you think about that?
Martin Bailie 32:02
Look at the, the global movement, regardless of retail, non-retail, human, country, whatever, the ability of great conversation will have a great outcome. So, I think there is a, there is a reference to who speaks, and how they speak, and what platform and if it helps, I'm a firm believer. I'm not a firm believer of greenwashing, which is a different topic that we'll spend time on. But the ability to do the right thing with the right integrity is essential. So that would be my, my number one.
Martin Bailie 32:35
The other one which is joined together is embracing data driven decision making that will enhance the customer experience. That customer centricity away from products and just centricity is so essential. The ability to engage in light touch out of the store, in light touch in the store, but still have that extreme personalization for, for, for the brand with me, Martin Bailie is going to be the future stickiness and loyalty, and loyalty essentially is cash for tomorrow. So how you do that, and how you get to know me better is going to be based on data and big data.
Martin Bailie 33:13
And there's a lot of great startups out there, there's a lot of great opportunities to really get to know us a lot better. That's still within the realms of data protection that's still in the realms of my privacy, of course, so there's, there's governance around that. But for me, I think that would be the number one, the number two thing, data decision making that will increase and improve the customer experience.
Martin Bailie 33:36
And the last one would be a stop. And I actually mentioned it in the first couple of sentences is stopped the silos. Because if you've, you've been able to break the silos down and become more fluid and more agile, as we spoke at the start of the conversation. I have seen personally clients that have retracted on that. And that's one of the ones is not a good thing. Because the silos don't bring, doesn't bring innovation, doesn't bring collaboration, and what the world told us in 2020, 2021, and even today, is collaboration is key in your ecosystem and outside your ecosystem. So, I would say the stop is don't bring back silos.
Michael LeBlanc 34:18
All right, well Martin, it's been such a great conversation. I think we could go on for quite a while. And I look forward to hopefully doing this in person sometime real soon. And special shout out to the folks at Rethink Retail because we're both influencers. That's what brought us that's one of the things I love about that program is it brings people like you, and I together may not have been, had the opportunity to meet. So, listen, thanks for your time, thanks for joining me on The Voice of Retail podcast, a real treat to get to know you, get your insight. So have a listen, get much continued success and have a great rest of your week.
Martin Bailie 34:50
Thank you so much. I'll speak to you soon. Thank you, take care.
Michael LeBlanc 34:54
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, follow on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically each week. And be sure to check out my other retail industry media properties, the Remarkable Retail podcast with Steve Dennis and the Global eCommerce Leaders podcast.
Michael LeBlanc 35:09
I'm your host Michael Leblanc, senior retail advisor, keynote speaker, Rethink Retail 2023 Global Top Retail Influencer. If you want more content or chat, follow me on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc 35:21
Safe travels everyone.
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