Welcome to a special NRF Big Show 2022 bonus episode of podcast, one of a series of exclusive interviews produced to support the show, the vendors and industry thought leaders heading into the new year. This episode: Steven Kramer, CEO of WorkJam.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Welcome to a special NRF Big Show 2022 bonus episode of podcast, one of a series of exclusive interviews produced to support the show, the vendors and industry thought leaders heading into the new year. This episode: Steven Kramer, CEO of WorkJam.
These bonus episodes all follow a similar format: first, we learn about my guest and the company they work for, and what they are talking about to retailers at the Big Show this year, second, based on their experience, knowledge and conversations with retail clients, two starts and one stop advice for retailers listening. And last, but not least, where you can go to learn more. Alright, let’s jump right in.
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven’t already, be sure and click subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week, and check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and the Food Professor podcast. Last but not least, if you are into Barbeque, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbeque, with new episodes each and every week!
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co! Have a safe week everyone!
Check out this great interview with David that goes deeper into NCR: https://the-voice-of-retail.simplecast.com/episodes/the-heartbeat-of-the-store
About Steven
Steven Kramer is the co-founder and CEO of the Montreal-based company WorkJam which is a frontline digital workplace that unleashes the full potential of non-desk workforces.
Steven is a technology entrepreneur with over 20 years of executive leadership experience in founding and scaling companies developing disruptive, enterprise-class technologies.
Prior to Workjam, Steven co-founded iCongo, a leading global software provider for omni-channel retail and B2B commerce solutions, which merged with hybris Software in 2011 and became the largest independent provider of e-commerce solutions, which went on to being purchased by SAP in 2013.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated on thought leadership panels worldwide. Michael was recently added to ReThink Retail’s prestigious Top 100 Global Retail Influencers list for 2021.
Michael is also the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts, including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus the Remarkable Retail with author Steve Dennis, Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. Most recently, Michael launched Conversations with CommerceNext, a podcast focussed on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers - all available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music and all major podcast platforms. Michael is also the producer and host of the “Last Request Barbeque” channel on YouTube where he cooks meals to die for and influencer riches.
Photo credit: National Retail Federation.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Welcome to a special NRF Big Show 2022 bonus episode of the podcast, one of a series of exclusive interviews produced to support the show, the vendors, and the industry thought leaders heading into the new year.
Michael LeBlanc 00:22
These bonus episodes all follow a similar format. First, we learn about my guest and the company they work for, and what they're talking about to retailers at the Big Show this year. Second, based on their experience, knowledge, and conversations with retail clients, two starts and one stop advice for retailers listening. And last but not least, where you can go to learn more. All right, let's jump right in. Steve, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing?
Steven Kramer 00:45
I'm doing well, Michael. Nice to be speaking with you today.
Michael LeBlanc 00:48
Well, it's great to hear your voice. You and I met, several years ago actually, through Retail Council of Canada. I held, or sponsored, kind of, a contest about great startups and, and you entered and, and you, you were, you were the winner. And that's how you and I first got to know each other. That was a couple of years ago. How are you, and how have you been since then?
Steven Kramer 01:07
We've been, I've been doing great. The company's been growing very nicely. So, it's, it's unbelievable that that was six years ago.
Michael LeBlanc 01:14
Wow.
Steven Kramer 01:14
That we were at the RCC event and a lot has changed, for sure, in the world over the last six years.
Michael LeBlanc 01:23
Yeah, right on. Now you, you operate, I think we'll get, we'll get into this, but you operate North American at least. Where am I reaching you today, though? Where am I finding you, and where are you based?
Steven Kramer 01:32
So, I am in Montreal today, our head office is in Montreal. We have offices in the US. We also have an office in Melbourne, Australia, as well as in London, England. And so, we, we have grown to be a global organization over the last six years, and also have customers that are running our platform in over 45 countries right now.
Michael LeBlanc 02:00
Wow. Congratulations. How, how do you find operating in, in Montreal? I, I, such a great pool of talent. Montreal's got, it, it, it's a great place, great pool of talent. Are you, are you able to, to, to access that talent? Are you finding people from around the world, or are you finding them right next door?
Steven Kramer 02:18
Yeah, so Montreal is a phenomenal place to be running a technology company, for a couple different reasons. First off, there is a great talent pool here. Because of language, I would say that individuals are a little bit less mobile in, in Quebec, then perhaps in other provinces, or other states in the US. People, you know, as a result of the culture they, they, they stay here.
Michael LeBlanc 02:43
Right.
Steven Kramer 02:43
The education system has been great in, in really building a, just a diversified talent pool of, of technologists. And certainly, like everywhere else in the world, technology is top of mind and growing significantly. So, it is a tight labour market. And, and as a result, although the majority of our, of our group development, group R&D organization is in Montreal, we now have branch offices in both Australia, as well as in Europe.
Michael LeBlanc 03:15
Oh, that's, you know, I'm kind of curious, were you always the sort that would have virtual people working for you, whether it was in the office locally or internationally, and did, did COVID transform that for you? Or were you already down that path? How do you, how did you—
Steven Kramer 03:29
We were, we always had, like, you know, our multiple offices, but we were always the organize-, an organization that liked people in the office, working as a team. And, you know, certainly things have changed, obviously, as a result of COVID. We've learned a lot about how a hybrid model can be, you know, really successful for us, as well.
Steven Kramer 03:50
But we have moved to a completely hybrid model. And I think the, you know, our team members are, are thrilled about it. And to be honest, we've, I was never, never a believer in that in the past, I have converted, I am a believer in it, I can see the, the productivity gains as well, that we get from it.
Michael LeBlanc 04:10
It's interesting, right. Because it's a, it's a bit off topic for discussion, but it's also on-topic for discussion, because it's about people. And it's, it's just this trade off, if there's a trade-off to be made between productivity and culture, and I guess that's the secret sauce is keeping them, you know, productivity seems to come well with the hybrid model, but, you know, adhesion to the brand, and culture, and innovation, those things seem a little harder to come by.
Steven Kramer 04:33
For sure. And I think the key to it is just really great communication. And we, you know, we really upskilled our, our team members to operate virtually in a, in a more productive way. How do you conduct meetings and, you know, you got to have fun as well, right. Sometimes you get on a Zoom, you go straight into, into business, you also have to have fun—
Michael LeBlanc 04:54
Yeah.
Steven Kramer 04:54
Which is a big part of our culture. And I think one of the biggest lessons for me, as I've been down this, kind of, hybrid learning process, is that people still really respect the, you know, the in-person, experience and, and time together. So, although we are hybrid and, you know, Quebec right now, you know, the, the office is closed. When it was open, there was really a desire for people to come back to the office.
Steven Kramer 05:24
And, and, and so we, the hybrid model, kind of, came naturally to our team. I mean, we're, we're, we have a very family-oriented culture as well, within the organization. And so, we, kind of, got this natural progression of people wanting to be in person, but then, you know, perhaps Mondays and Fridays working from home to save time on commutes, and so forth.
Michael LeBlanc 05:46
Right, right. Well, listen, we've jumped right in, we've gotten ahead of ourselves, but this is all great. And let's take a step back.
Steven Kramer 05:54
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 05:54
And let's tell the listeners about yourself, who you are, you are not new to technology with this startup. And tell me all about your company.
Steven Kramer 06:03
Perfect, great. Well, you know, I'm, this is my second startup. Second technology company. I, my, my roots, I guess, started in e-commerce. I started an e-commerce platform company in 1999, called iCongo. And—
Michael LeBlanc 06:20
'99, you're an OG man, there's not many of us, eh.
Steven Kramer 06:23
Yeah, exactly, I can't believe it. And, you know, through, through iCongo, our clients were some of the larger retailers in North America that used our software to run their e-commerce properties. And in 2011, we landed up merging with our, one of our European competitors, a company called Hybris. So, Hybris and iCongo merged, we became Hybris, which was really the largest independent, back-office, agnostic e-commerce platform in the world.
Steven Kramer 06:56
We had explosive growth and landed upselling to SAP in 2013. So, that was a, an amazing ride, obviously. I spent, you know, 15 years evangelizing, you know, a single customer experience and, and, and omni you know, omni-channel commerce and so forth. And when I landed up in SAP, which is a company that I absolutely loved being part of, I started getting really enamored around other challenges that organizations were starting to think about, and to, and to face in real, in, you know, in their operations.
Steven Kramer 07:36
So, in speaking to a lot of executives, the topic of people started to become really top of mind for organizations. And I think there were a couple different factors. This was like 2014, Michael. There were a couple different factors, if you think back to that time, that were impacting the way organizations were thinking about their future. You know, first one is that millennials were starting to enter into the workforce.
Steven Kramer 08:02
And there was this big concern in 2014, how are we going to manage millennials, and their expectations are different. And it turned out not to be as hard as people thought, but, for sure, the expectations were, are different in the younger generations, and even in older generations that have been more accustomed to technology. Everything in our lives, as an example, we have digital relationships with people around us, our doctors, our restaurants, our, our—
Michael LeBlanc 08:30
Sure.
Steven Kramer 08:30
You know, I just brought my car into the garage today. You know, everything that I'm doing with them today is, is through texting and their systems. So, the expectations of employees started to change in 2014. And then you also had President Obama who started to put more emphasis on protecting the rights of hourly workers in, in the US. And, and also with Amazon, which was really starting to put a lot of pressure on retail organizations back then.
Steven Kramer 09:01
There was this realization that the store of the future is important, but also upping the game on in-person experiences. Which obviously, people are a big part of that. So, I got enamored by all these different, you know, social, economic and cultural aspects of, of, of business that were challenging organizations. And when we looked at it, we, we landed up noticing that, that there had been a lot of innovation on the HR and workforce management front, but nothing that really touched people in the frontline operations.
Steven Kramer 09:37
You know, there were systems that, back office systems that did better forecasting and optimization, but no real operational tools that were able to scale at mass, be compliant, and drive, what we thought, was just an amazing concept of dollars and hearts. And the system that can pull costs out of a business, while also winning the hearts of employees. And if you think about it, and technology, particularly retail technology, like there's not a lot of technologies that, that can say that they win dollars and hearts, right. It's not like you—
Michael LeBlanc 10:09
Yeah.
Steven Kramer 10:09
Put in a POS machine into a store, and it may save you money, but it's not necessarily winning the hearts of your, of your team members. So, we came up with this concept of building a digital workplace platform, and taking the concepts of omni-channel commerce and applying it to the HR industry, and workforce management, and operations. And that was really the beginning of WorkJam.
Steven Kramer 10:33
So, we started WorkJam seven years ago. And essentially, the concept around WorkJam is to have an operational suite that allows everything from employee self-service, operational execution, such as task management, employee learning through a variety of different learning tools, as well as communication. And put those together under one single platform that is both compliant, but also drives dollars and hearts in organizations.
Michael LeBlanc 11:06
Now, off the top, you mentioned, you had a great presence in North America and around the world. Give me an idea of what kind of clients are, are using your product in the retail space. Of course my listeners are in, in retail. And do you focus beyond retail? Or is it you really just focusing on expertise?
Steven Kramer 11:21
Yeah, great question. So, so we have phenomenal customers around the world. And retail is one of the segments that we cater to. We also cater to other segments that are, that have frontline workers, such as hospitality, manufacturing, distribution, logistics, as well as healthcare.
Steven Kramer 11:45
Those are, those are the, and, and retail, those make up the four, you know, segments that we, that we cater to right now. As far as the customers, we have great customers around the world. Organizations in, such as Shell Oil, you know, we, Couche-Tard, organizations such as Ulta Beauty, Woolworths, for example, in grocery and in Australia, so—
Michael LeBlanc 12:10
Ulta, I just, I just interviewed the CEO of Ulta, for my Remarkable Retail podcast. Very impressive, very impressive organization.
Steven Kramer 12:15
And a remarkable company.
Michael LeBlanc 12:17
Yeah.
Steven Kramer 12:17
Really just a tremendous organization. So, our customers are made up of both large enterprises, as well as small, small, medium sized enterprises. And—
Michael LeBlanc 12:28
Tell me a little bit about that. So, your typical, I mean, not all platforms are designed for all sized retailers.
Steven Kramer 12:34
Right.
Michael LeBlanc 12:34
So, when you, when you think about, or when my listeners are thinking about, hey, that could be a solution for me, they should have, how many employees, or be of a certain size. Give me a sense of, of what, where that works best for you and your customers.
Steven Kramer 12:47
Yeah, so typically, our, our system works, and, by the way, it's a very good point, which is, there's no, that, you know, in this type of technology, you can't have a technology that fits every sized organization. And for us, we typically cater to organizations that have, you know, over 1000 to 2000 frontline workers.
Michael LeBlanc 13:10
Right.
Steven Kramer 13:10
And it's, and it's not like a set rule. I mean, it's also based on the number of locations that they have, and some of the challenges that they're trying to overcome. You know, for example, if there's a lot of locations, but maybe they only have, you know, 1500 frontline workers, and they want to get into labour sharing between locations, that's a perfect, perfect type of customer for us.
Steven Kramer 13:33
So, it's a mix of both number of employees, as well as number of locations, that you know, that qualify, you know, a great fit for WorkJam—
Michael LeBlanc 13:43
Right.
Steven Kramer 13:43
For that type of organization.
Michael LeBlanc 13:45
And up, right. Because Ulta's got, what, 30,000 people. So it, that's a tremendous, kind of, breadth you've named some big companies, Shell, Couche-Tard. Lots of, lots of people. All right.
Steven Kramer 13:55
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 13:55
So, that's a great introduction to WorkJam. And let's talk now, you're at this pivot point, you're at the intersection point of a whole bunch of trends, yet again. You know, seven years later. We've got, what do, what do they call, 'The Great Resignation' or 'The Great Moderation'.
Michael LeBlanc 13:57
And, and staffing is an issue. Right now it's a particular issue. We're, we're speaking here in January, Omicron is taking a lot of people out of the workforce. So, advice. I mean, you're, you, you've talked to decision makers, retail decision makers and beyond, two starts, one stop as they think about now, and, and 2022.
Steven Kramer 14:10
Yeah, great, great question. So, you're right. There, there's a lot of, there's a lot going on in our space right now. And I think one of the interesting aspects is that COVID has really accelerated the need around digital transformation of frontline operations. It opened the eyes to what is possible and where some of the pain points, you know, that need to be resolved very quickly are, you know.
Steven Kramer 15:00
So, it's really uncovered a lot and educated a lot of, a lot of, a lot of organizations. I would say that when we're speaking to prospects on our customers, the two things that are really top of mind right now is certainly the labour crisis and also productivity of the frontline. So, on the labour crisis, you're 100%, right. It's not only Omicron that's taken people out of the, the workforce. There's obviously a lot of other factors that are playing into that as well.
Steven Kramer 15:31
In my opinion, the shift in, in, in the labor actually started before COVID. I think it, it, COVID has accelerated it. And it certainly is one of the biggest challenges for organizations right now. So, where a lot of our customers and prospects are spending time on, right now, which I think is really critical, is around how do you optimize your workforce to be able to get the right coverage in your stores.
Steven Kramer 16:04
And traditionally, as you know, many, most retailers are staffing one location at a time. And with Workjam, what we're able to do is allow organizations to share labour across locations. So, for example, you can take a district, and you can actually share train labor across multiple locations. So, you may have an individual that is trained as a cashier in one location. And now you're able to offer shifts for that individual at another location where there might be, you know, some scheduling shortages.
Steven Kramer 16:37
And that has proven to be really strategic and, and helpful for organizations, particularly in this environment. You look at organizations like American Eagle, some of the other customers that I, that I mentioned before, shifting from a location-based staffing model to a regional, or district based, staffing model is an absolute start, in my opinion, for organizations to be looking at in 2022.
Michael LeBlanc 17:06
Right on.
Steven Kramer 17:07
The other aspect is productivity. So, if you're having issues hiring enough staff for your locations, and then you're also dealing with, you know, a lot of new types of processes that are being introduced to your business, either from e-commerce, or health and safety, and so forth. You need to focus on productivity. How do you allow your staff to be more productive and save time, so that you can get more out of your, your team members?
Steven Kramer 17:36
And that's where task management is also top of mind for many organizations right now. And it's either replacing, you know, legacy applications with more modern applications like WorkJam. Or, as you can imagine, you know, still a lot of organizations that are running in a very manual process with pen and paper. So, just beginning the digital automation, you know, journey, is important right now.
Steven Kramer 18:05
And so, so that, those, those particular ones are very, very important starts. And I would say that the, if I'm going to add a third, is communication. Being able to have a compliant communication tool for the field, that's both bi-directional, so head office to the frontline workers and be able to collect feedback as well, and bring it back to head office is, is super important. And—
Michael LeBlanc 18:33
What should they stop doing based on, based on your experience? What should they say, you know what, it used to work—
Steven Kramer 18:39
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 18:39
But it's probably not going to work anymore.
Steven Kramer 18:41
Well, this, this is a really interesting one, because there's a lot of, listen, retailers are really smart, and they, and they understand their, their challenges. And, and as a result over the last couple of years, you know, they've started to put more technology into their stores, and particularly, you know, trying to solve some of these, these workforce challenges.
Steven Kramer 19:03
I think one thing that we see over and over in our implementations, as well as in speaking with prospects, is there's only so many systems that you can put into the field. You know, being a frontline worker is really difficult as it is, let alone getting trained on six or seven applications. And that's where consolidating all these different systems into one, you know, single view or one app for the frontline is, is really critical to get the value out of your investments, but also to drive the right productivity in the field.
Steven Kramer 19:37
You know, not to, you know, you know, promote WorkJam too much. But that's really one of our big advantages of having this one platform that covers all these different disciplines and provides an employee a single pane of glass into their organization.
Michael LeBlanc 19:55
So, less it, basically less is more. If I turn the other, you know, stop, relying on, trying to tie systems together and try to find a system, a singular system to make it easier for your employees.
Steven Kramer 20:07
Absolutely. And it's one of the challenges of SAS, which is, you know—
Michael LeBlanc 20:10
Yeah.
Steven Kramer 20:10
A lot of these applications are easy to stand up and they serve a purpose. But particularly with the frontline, it's, it, there's only so much you can put in the fields.
Michael LeBlanc 20:19
All right, well, that's a great message. Great overview of WorkJam. Where can people go to connect with you or learn more about WorkJam, if they want to delve in.
Steven Kramer 20:27
Yeah, great. Well, certainly, you know, our website has a wealth of information at workjam.com. And I'm happy to provide my email address if anybody wanted to reach out to me, and it's Steven, S-T-E-V-E-N, dot Kramer, K-R-A-M-E-R at workjam.com. And I'm happy to continue the discussion with anybody that would like to reach out.
Michael LeBlanc 20:50
All right, fantastic. Well, I'll put that in the show notes. And listen, it was great catching up. Long overdue.
Steven Kramer 20:56
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 20:57
And we're in the same country, but I miss, not being in Montreal, I miss being in Montreal. Probably the longest time in my life I haven't been in Montreal, so, I'm going to rectify that as soon as possible. But listen, I wish you continued, continued success. You've been on a great run, and it sounds like you're solving a lot of problems, some gnarly problems. So congratulations. And again, thank you for being on The Voice of Retail podcast.
Steven Kramer 21:19
Thank you, Michael.
Michael LeBlanc 21:20
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure and click and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, so new episodes will land automatically twice a week. And check out my other retail industry media properties, the Remarkable Retail podcast, Conversation with CommerceNext podcast, and The Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 21:40
Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbecue, with new episodes each and every week. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E LeBlanc & Company and Maven Media. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblannc.co. Have a safe week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
organizations, people, retail, started, frontline workers, montreal, employees, locations, podcast, systems, office, company, hybrid model, customers, productivity, big, world, technology, frontline, platform