In this episode we get the podcast on the rails with our special guest Dan Bresolin – Vice President – Intermodal, CN. With 20 years of experience in international and domestic supply chain, and with the movement of goods around the world and through our vast nation a top priority for retailers coast-to-coast, never a better time to be delving into the insights, details and product movement trends that retailers need to know today.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
In this episode we get the podcast on the rails with our special guest Dan Bresolin – Vice President – Intermodal, CN. With 20 years of experience in international and domestic supply chain, and with the movement of goods around the world and through our vast nation a top priority for retailers coast-to-coast, never a better time to be delving into the insights, details and product movement trends that retailers need to know today
As Vice President of Intermodal, Dan is responsible for all Sales and Marketing components of CN’s International, Domestic, Supply Chain Sales (Regional), CN Worldwide, and CN’s Asia Marketing Teams. Reporting to the Senior Vice President of Consumer Product Supply Chain, Dan’s primary role is to enable CN’s customers to win in their markets and help create CN’s next generation of Railroaders.
Prior to this role, Dan was responsible for the full scope of the Sales and Marketing areas of CN’s International book of business including managing all relationships with Ocean Carriers and Port Stakeholders on the three coasts that CN serves. Before that, Dan was the Director of Marketing, Intermodal International, accountable for all aspects of pricing, strategy, new product development, & contract analysis for CN’s entire Intermodal International business.
Dan has also held leadership positions in Sales at CN including Director of Sales in International and Director of Strategic Sales in Domestic Intermodal. Dan joined CN in April, 1999 as a Domestic Intermodal Account Manager based in Toronto ON.
Dan takes great pride in his knowledge and experience in rail operations and has taken full advantage of CN’s Management operations training programs. During his 20 years at CN, Dan has qualified as both a Rail Conductor and an Intermodal Crane Operator. Dan is a Graduate of Brock University in St. Catherines Ontario and currently lives in Stoney Creek ON with his wife and two children.
Thanks for tuning into today’s episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode please consider leaving a rating and review, as it really helps us grow so that we can continue getting amazing guests on the show.
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!
Until next time, stay safe and have a great week!
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada. In this episode, we get the podcast on the rails with our special guests Dan Bresolin, Vice President, Intermodal, CN. With 20 years of experience in international and domestic supply chain. And, with the movement of goods around the world and through our fascination, a top priority for retailers, coast to coast. Never a better time to be delving into the insights, details, and product movement trends that retailers need to know today.
Dan Bresolin
I think pre COVID, I would say that most of the big cargo owners, retailers, I think were really running a true just-in-time supply chain. And, if there's anything that has changed, it's now more where they want to have a little more landside flexibility and be able to make sure that their, their large skus are more easily, the large skus that they sell in their stores are more easily nearby, ready to fulfill the stores.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's listen in now.
Dan, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How you doing this morning?
Dan Bresolin
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me, Michael. I look forward to our discussion.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, listen, I gotta tell you, I'm a big fan of, a big fan of your work, big fan of CN and, and I love trains, I gotta tell you, just like from being a little kid, but I also love him as a, as being part of retail. You know, the infrastructure and the movement of goods. It's, it's such a part rich part of the Canadian history, but it's so relevant today. So, it's a nice juxtaposition of, of, you know, the uniting of the nation, but also the, the services you provide to retail, and your understanding of, of supply chain. Which a, Dan, did you ever imagine this number of people in the country would be knowing what the word supply chain means?
Dan Bresolin
Well, I mean, to your first point, you know, it's, it's kind of been exciting in the last couple years with CN. You know, we're 100 years old now, actually, 101 I think this year. So, you know, you're mentioned of the history and the legacy of the railroad is something that's quite, quite exciting for us.
And, I can, I cannot fathom two years ago, knowing what we would be going through now in the supply chain. And, you're right, I think, I think any, every business owner has got a supply chain now, you know, at the forefront of their, of their mind. And, I think that the average person at home is learning about supply chain, because they're waiting for those sorely needed vaccines.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, and, and it's more than vaccines, right? I mean, 'A' it's vaccines, but it's also bike parts. It's everything, right? Like, it's, it's, it's so, you know, this time last year, at the beginning of the COVID crisis, Canadians had a bit of a sense of food insecurity, because they saw some empty shelves. And, you know, it took a little bit of time for the supply chain to react. But, but generally, it's, I mean, it's probably the first time in my lifetime that, that you just can't go out and buy what you want.
You know, there's many, many instances of back orders and there's complexities and in all the, you know, from manufacturing to all that stuff. Which is why I'm really excited to talk to you about it, because you've got that front seat, so to speak, view of everything that's going on. But anyway, I've jumped right in. Let's step take a step back and tell me about yourself, your personal professional journey and your role at CN.
Dan Bresolin
Right on, well, I started, I started my transportation career in the trucking industry working for the TNT group, which became the TST group, which is now part of TFI for about five years, and then I joined the railroad in 1999. And, I hold, I held about six positions in Intermodal.
So, I've spent most of my career in the Intermodal side of CN. And, right from an entry level account manager in 1999, and I've kind of went into the international side of the business in 2009. So, I've kind of got a good base on the domestic side. And for the last 9, 10 years, I worked in the international side and now I have gotten both domestic and international Intermodal under me.
Michael LeBlanc
That's a great run, right? I mean, it's a great, a great background. Now for, now for those listeners who may not know exactly, they may be familiar with the term intermodal, but they may not know exactly what it means, give us a quick brief on what intermodal is.
Dan Bresolin
Yeah. It's a container that's interchangeable onto a chassis for a truck for final delivery first mile last mile, it can go on a vessel and it can go on a train. Yeah, so the container can move. anywhere you want it.
Michael LeBlanc
You move the containers, but on any given day, how many containers are moving around and your network?
Dan Bresolin
I'll just give an example. We have three trains a day, just at the port of Prince Rupert alone, that comes out of the port with over 1,000 containers on it. So, you know, you layer that on with the port of Vancouver, port of Halifax, port of Montreal, and New Orleans in the Gulf. And that's just the international segment. The domestic segment also as a robust train package with, with multiple trains that are arriving and leaving Toronto every day, going in all directions. So, it's literally 1,000s of containers every day.
Michael LeBlanc
So, I've tried to count at, while I'm waiting for a train to pass by, how many containers on average, you know, are on a train? Is it, it's less than 1000? Like, is there an average? I guess it's capacity. But what's the max capacity, I guess?
Dan Bresolin
So, you know, I would say that trains average, around, you know, 10,000 feet in length. And if you've got a 10,000 foot train of, of intermodal containers, you're looking at around anywhere between 350, well give or take, 350 containers on that train.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, let's talk about let's talk about supply chain logistics as we headed into the COVID era. So, let me take you back to this time last year, minus a couple of months. So, pre COVID, the before time, you know, your job is to move a massive amount of goods that arrive on our shores or maybe even manufactured on our shores. So, what, you know, what were the best-in-class strategies for doing that? What were the trends you saw in supply chain, you know, and we'll talk about them, where I'm going with this is, what's what have you, what have you done as an organization to react to the COVID crisis and its characteristics? And then, how the COVID crisis might impact, or frame, what you do moving forward?
But let's start in the before time, because, you know, many of the things that happen during COVID are an acceleration of already existing trends. So, what were those big trends, when you talk to executives in supply chain? What, what were you talking about?
Dan Bresolin
Well, I mean, first of all, I think, you know, pre COVID, we had a really good start to 2020, in January, and in the months leading up. You know, we were, we were really pushing our domestic core business with our trains. We were seeing a lot of eCommerce was growing at the time. So, it was it was something that we were, had our eyeball on. That's since been accelerated immensely, here through COVID, and I'm sure we'll get into that a bit later.
The supply chain was really operating the same way as it has always done. You know, the ports were busy, the, the imports were, were coming in, and we still continue to move a lot of US destined cargo through the ports.
We were watching real closely and trying to get deeper into the end customer and the BCOs, or beneficial cargo owners, out there try and understand a little bit more about their import and export strategies.
And, at the time, we were really trying to bring the international and the domestic supply chains together. Because, at the end of the day, they do interchange and, and we were, we were very much we wanted to break down the silos between those two businesses.
So, I mean, going into going into a pre COVID, I mean, it was it was, you know, full steam ahead business as usual. And, we were starting the year off in January with a with a pretty robust kickoff and volume at the beginning of the year.
Michael LeBlanc
And then COVID started. I mean, I remember speaking to retailers in late January, February of last year, and mostly the concern was around supply chain. You know, would there, would there be impacts coming out of China particularly? And, I described it as casting a shadow on retail, I had no idea it would be a full eclipse of the sun. But now COVID is kind of, we're a year into the COVID crisis. And, tell, talk about, I've been reading a lot about, and hearing a lot from retailers around the complexities and challenges in the supply chain. I alluded it, to the, to it at the beginning of the conversation. You know, I hear congestion at ports. I hear, you know, shortage of containers. I hear containers in the wrong places. Like what's your, as you step back, what's your global perspective to give the listeners an idea of, of exactly what's going on out there with the movement of goods globally?
Dan Bresolin
No, I mean, we were watching what was happening in December in January, you know, in China with, with COVID. And, you know, the whole, the whole concern was, was well, is that is that going to come here? And, but, but at the same time, we were also asking ourselves, well, what is it going to do over there? Because, you know, we could be, we could be looking to consume a lot of goods. But, if if the factories aren't open and they're closed down, then that's going to be an issue.
So, what we saw was a dramatic decrease on the import side. As, as COVID, as China shut down, and many of the nations shut down over there. And, with this massive decline in import volume, you know, we were forced into, into a situation where we had to make sure we were managing our cost and, and, and managing how we were running our own supply chain, internally to make sure that we had the right trains on the network to handle the volume that was there. That was very, that was a very trying time.
And then as China became more, or we're getting well, that's when we were getting sick. I mean, that's when everything, everything really changed, when that happened. So, as the volumes went down, what we saw was all of the grocery pharma, all of those goods took off. We kind of as we were dipping down on our international volumes, our domestic volumes took off. And, not only that, the demand for temperature protected equipment, you know, refrigerated containers, heated containers, anything that would be able to move pharma and grocery goods into these, these, these stores was in high demand.
And so, you know, we kind of we kind of got really lucky that the international business dropped to the point where our terminals could stay extremely fluid, and extremely responsive to the market so that we could be fast and get the goods out as soon as possible.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, and it's not like you don't, you know, that's not, it's not like that's not part of your DNA anyway, to be fast and nimble. But, this, this kind of I'm sure, you know, as I've often said, the supply chain is harder sometimes to start than it is to stop. Which we, you know, merchants experienced in the beginning of the year.
Now, fast forward a year, December, January, February. And, we've got kind of the opposite problem I hear is that we've got this, this choke point where this massive demand of very big physical goods is coming in and the container issue. What do you know about the, what do you think about the container shortage and traffic at the ports? What's your experience?
Dan Bresolin
Well, let's just talk about you know, what happened. So, we get into we get into June, July, August of last year, and, and, you know, the ocean container carriers were still forecasting, blank sailings based on volumes. And then within, within, you know, 15 to 30 day switch in July was hit, and the volumes just took off. And, I think it's just a function of the fact that, you know, people were starved for goods. I think people were at home, you know, looking to shop. That's when we watched the eCommerce a lot of the, you know, it happened in my house, where, where packages were showing up every day to the door. I know that my family was not going to the, to the mall as much. But, you know, we watched all these, this takeoff, this, this huge boost in volume takeoff.
And at the same time, we're watching it happen at all the ports across the US, and in the East Coast of the US and Canada. And as you know, the Canadian gateways are a very, very good gateway to go to the US Midwest. So, we're watching volumes go, go up there as well. So, I mean, it was really, it was really a dramatic shift, you know, being down 20% to volumes going up over 20%. And, all it all happened, it all happened within, within about, you know, a month, a month and a half, start to finish.
So, you know, you go from taking resources down to having to not only bring resources back, but having to hire in some cases in some of our terminals in Toronto, where we're, we've got new hires going in. And, and that was really difficult too, because you know, when you hire people during COVID, usually you can have a class of, you know, 10 or 20 people doing training, well, it's a lot harder to hire and get people back when you have to have a classroom with only two or three people in it, that are socially distance and they can learn. So, I mean, it was quite a challenge, getting back to where we, to where we were.
I mean, I'm we're really in a good place now. We've hired. We've, we've ramped up the resources, our trains are getting really fluid on the network. We're getting our velocity up and things are, things are very good right now, which is really important because you know, even though we're, we've got some hope on, on the vaccines, we also have, you know, a bit of a third wave going on here right now. So, we've got to make sure that we keep our terminals fluid and ready to go if there's a, if there's an urgent need.
Michael LeBlanc
And you know, I was speaking with Dave Poirier, and he's an expert in supply chain logistics, and he described a history where the supply chain in general, were so locked down, and so optimized by retailers that it almost got too rigid. And that, it was that the challenge was responding to these kind of shock. Would you think, would you agree that moving forward, even now, that the, the bias now is towards agility versus locked down? Like you, you know, you if you can't predict the future, and you better be able to respond better to it. Is that your perspective as, as CN? And, is that what you're hearing from your clients?
Dan Bresolin
Yeah, I think the, I think pre COVID, I would say that most of the big cargo owners, retailers, I think we're really running a true just-in-time supply chain. And, if there's anything that has changed, it's now more where they want to have a little more landside flexibility and be able to make sure that their, their large skus are more easily, the large skus that they sell in their stores are more easily nearby, ready to fulfill the stores.
I mean, what we've really seen, I think, is a lot of concerned retailers with, you know, what is happening because of the pandemic, why, they're ordering products much earlier, because they never want to be in a position where three months from now, if there's a variant wave or something going on in Asia, that they can't get their goods. So, they want to make sure their goods are secured here in a warehouse ready to go in the, so, that they can put them in the stores quickly. You know, I really feel that, that that's really driving what's happening right now. And as you know, concurrently, or what's happening at the same time, is we've got ocean carrier capacity, which is tight to say the least. We've watched,
Michael LeBlanc
I hear the, I hear the spot rate, I index, the spot rate is, which is my amateurs way of kind of figuring out how busy the lanes are. Just at record amounts, right? Like,
Dan Bresolin
Yeah, if you really, if you really look at the situation where most of the contracts get signed in February, March, April of 2020, they're ending now. They were signed, they were signed as we're heading into a pandemic. So, people that signed contracts probably had a really good rate. But, the spot rate changed quickly, in order to fill up the ships and was raised dramatically, to a point where we're seeing some, some incredible rates on the ocean. You would be ordering on your contract, but if you needed more space, you would have to order on the spot market. And, I'm sure you were concerned of geez, if I don't order now, I might pay a higher rate later. So, there was a lot of almost panic type, maybe panic type buying. Maybe that's not the right word. But, I mean, people were, we're really trying to get, get things ordered quickly and get them in, in case there was another wave or, you know. Even another wave here in North America. What happens if a if a port were to have an issue with an outbreak or anything like that? So, I mean,
Michael LeBlanc
Tt can happen, right? I mean, let's bring that to you, to your front door, so to speak or on your tracks. What does all this mean for you? Does it mean more marshaling? More storage? Does it, does it change the way you move the goods? I mean, you're, I suspect you're getting the goods out of these ports as fast as you can. What has changed based, because we've been talking about ocean liners and things, but what, what is what has changed from your perspective?
Dan Bresolin
Well, what we've seen is, is, you know, a couple things. First of all, there generally is a lot more freight desiring to come through the gateway than what the gateway can traditionally handle. You know, we know, we know the capacity of the gateway. How much, how many trains can be processed a day. How much work can be done. And really, there's, there's ships that are still waiting to discharge there, there's a lot more cargo than what the gateway can traditionally handle.
You know, I'll preface that with you know, in February, you know, we generally have cold in Canada. It usually gets down to minus 25 or 30, or even 40 in some places across the west. So, you know that, that really puts a strain on the rail network because we're not able to run the same velocity in the same speed cross the network as, as we normally can. So, it's a traditionally a time where our car supply is, is a little bit tighter to the, to the ports. You know, we're getting a lot, lot better now as the, as the network is warming up. But in general, there is a lot of cargo that still wants to be discharged at the ports and transited into Canada or into the, to the US Midwest.
And, you know, I don't know if everybody's reads you know, reads the periodicals that are out there, and we all know that the, you know, LA, Long Beach is the, is the, the biggest terminal on the US West Coast and, and they've got anywhere between 30 and 40 vessels that are at anchor right now waiting to, waiting to discharge. So, I mean, all of the supply chains, in my opinion from what I'm reading and seeing is, you know, every supply chain is, is taxed right now with a lot more, a lot of volume trying to transit through the gateways.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's talk about retail and supply chain. So, kind of last question. Second last question. But as, as you sit with retailers, turn that around a little bit, what would you, what would you be advice, what would your advice be to retailers when they have the conversation around moving goods with CN? What, what should they be thinking about for the future? Let's talk about the future, and how should they be framing that up in their minds and, and that configuration of their, of their supply chains?
Dan Bresolin
Yeah, it's a good question. You know, I think, I think it's imperative that, that we as CN, and, and the true shippers, I mean, develop a better understanding of what the requirements are, and the needs are for the business. You know, in the past, you know, the traditional relationships are, you know, on the international side, we deal with the ocean carrier. And I think it's important that we develop a deeper understanding of who's in the box from an international perspective. And, we develop relationships, whether it be with the forwarder, or with the, with the cargo owner. You know, everybody, we talked to the, we talked to the big shippers, but we really need to talk to more to the smaller shippers and understand their requirements from our perspective and build products around their needs. And so, I mean, from that standpoint, I think we're doing a great job there, we will only continue.
And, you know, I think when it comes to eComm, the large retailer, speed is very, very important. CN is blessed with amazing geography that we have across our network. You know, we got Prince Rupert and Vancouver, which are a day, to two days closer to Asian markets, so that we have the ability to be fast off the ship. You know, even Halifax, whether you're coming through the Suez or a North Europe trade, it's still you've got to go right by Halifax before you get to New York. So, we've got great, great geography there that we can, we can, we can, we can build our product around speed to market and, and work with the train package in order to drive a consistent reliable train that can be fast into the Midwest or into Toronto, or Montreal for that matter. So, it's building products that, that the customers need. We've got to build better relationships with our cargo owners.
And, then on the on the domestic side, it's finding that right mix of 53-foot business on the domestic side, working with different products like transloading on the west coast. Whether it be in you know Vancouver, which we do a lot of today, Prince Rupert which is developing their, their import and export logistics parks, right now. Whether, or in Calgary at our, at our logistics Park, LPC Calgary, where we can, we can, we can marry up shippers with an international to domestic supply chain in order to speed their products to market.
So, I mean, it's, it's eComm is, is the future. We're not, we're not a direct player, we're a supporter. We're a supply chain partner with the, with many, many supply chain players. Whether it's the ocean carrier, or the port operator.
But, we've got to be there and make sure that we've got the digital tools. Which I think is the last piece here is the digital tools that, that can, that can work with many of different supply chains, and give, and give that information, that transparency and information to, to the shippers.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, it's been a great discussion. We've kind of gone from, from the beginning to right to present day. It's been a really nice fulsome discussion, so, thank you for that. And, where can the listeners go if they want to learn more about but CN or about your work or, or get in touch with you.
Dan Bresolin
You know, I think our best resource is on the internet right now www.cn.ca. It's very clean, clear easy, laid out. You can, you can serve, you can, you can go through different markets that we serve, and how we serve them. And there's great contact information available on the websites, on our website. And you know anything else, you know, I, reach out to the Account Managers that we have and they're all listed on the on the website as well.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, that's perfect. Well, listen been great conversation thanks for joining me. It's been, I wish you continued success and continued moving of the goods. I mean I thank you for, from me to move, for you moving the goods. You, you're behind the scenes but critical to getting products and food on the shelf and feeding the nation. So, so thank you and all the hard-working men and women at CN for doing that in all kinds of, all kinds of circumstances. So, yeah, Dan, thanks again for joining me and thanks for being on The Voice and Retail.
Dan Bresolin
Well, thank you, Michael. And, you made a really good point there. You know, during these times, we really do need to thank all of the men and women, whether they're driving a truck, or a train, or a frontline, you know, grocery store worker or nurses, doctors, I mean everybody, we have to thank all of them as, as we deal with this tough time. So, a great point there and thank you for your time.
Michael LeBlanc
Thanks for tuning into today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating and review as it really helps us grow so that we continue to get amazing guests onto the show. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc Company Inc. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn. Visit my website at meleblanc.co. Until next time, stay safe and have a great week.