Fotini Iconomopoulos is the person you call if you need to get what you want. After a decade in the retail space, Fotini refined her negotiation skills in the consumer packaged goods industry before becoming a management consultant. Today, she teaches MBA Negotiations at the Schulich School of Business, speaks to audiences all over the world and, most recently, wrote a book titled “Say Less, Get More: Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want.”
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Fotini Iconomopoulos is the person you call if you need to get what you want.
After a decade in the retail space, Fotini refined her negotiation skills in the consumer packaged goods industry before becoming a management consultant. Today, she teaches MBA Negotiations at the Schulich School of Business, speaks to audiences all over the world and, most recently, wrote a book titled “Say Less, Get More: Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want.”
Fotini joins me on The Voice of Retail to talk about refreshing our understanding of negotiation and proven tactics that can work for anyone. We discuss Fotini’s retail origin story, war rooms and common misconceptions to step away from.
Written for everyone and anyone, “Say Less, Get More” offers a refreshing take on modern negotiation.
Thanks for tuning into today’s episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode please consider leaving a rating and review, as it really helps us grow so that we can continue getting amazing guests on the show.
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!
Until next time, stay safe and have a great week!
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and the all new Conversations with CommerceNext podcast. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael Leblanc and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:10
Fotini Iconomopoulos is the person you want to call if you need to get what you want.
Michael LeBlanc 00:14
After a decade in the retail space, Fotini refined her negotiation skills in the consumer packaged goods industry before becoming a management consultant. Today, she teaches MBA Negotiations at the Schulich School of Business, speaks to audiences all over the world and, most recently, wrote a book titled “Say Less, Get More: Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want.”
Michael LeBlanc 00:35
Fotini joins me on The Voice of Retail to talk about refreshing our understanding of negotiation and proven tactics that can work for anyone. We discuss Fotini’s retail origin story, war rooms and common misconceptions to step away from.
Michael LeBlanc 00:48
Written for everyone and anyone, “Say Less, Get More” offers a refreshing take on modern negotiation.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 00:53
So, asking questions is another great way of collecting information, but it's also a wonderful way of making the conversation seem much more collaborative, so that you're not, they're not feeling as though they just got beaten up in this entire conversation or forced or at gunpoint to give you this information. So, it's a more collaborative approach.
Michael LeBlanc 01:12
Let's listen in now. Fotini, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing this morning?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 01:18
I'm doing fantastic. How about you?
Michael LeBlanc 01:20
I'm good. Thank you and first of all, let me say what, how much I enjoyed your, your keynote presentation at the Star Women In Grocery Awards a while back. It was great and that's how I came to, mostly how I came to be aware of you. So, that was great. You're a keynote speaker you do, you write, you're an author, you do a bunch of stuff. So, it was great to listen to you and I actually knew and have had on one or, one or others of my podcasts, some of the great impressive leaders, but they're all impressive. I mean, it was such a great, it was such a great morning.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 01:48
Yeah, I appreciate that. It was, it was a full circle moment for me because I started my corporate career in consumer goods in that space attending events like that. So, it was kind of fun to be on stage even virtually for that one.
Michael LeBlanc 02:01
Well, it was a great, it was a great way for them to program content, it was award, award, award and then you take a break, and you had a great keynote. So, anyway, well, listen, that, that's what brought us here today, why don't we jump right in, tell us about yourself and what you do for a living?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 02:17
So, I mean, my tagline is, I help people get what they want and that pretty much sums it all up. It all happens because I am either doing these types of keynotes where someone in the audience will get some nugget of information and years later, they get to tap me on the shoulder and say, hey, I made a whole lot of money because of something you said, or it started really with more consulting and training for organizations who are going through high stakes scenarios. So, I'll sit in a war room with corporate clients and help them plot out how to save millions or billions of dollars and what do they say and how do they do it and lots of roleplay and strategy and power decisions or they'll hire me and go, hey, train our folks to be better at what they're supposed to be doing because they've got to do these big negotiations and profits are running through their fingers. So, how do we make sure that we're not bleeding money and how do we make more money.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 03:07
So, either I'm spending time, you know, multi days at a time training folks in a boardroom or in a virtual boardroom, or I am, you know, discussing real life scenarios, or I get to do this whole speaking thing, which means I get to reach so many really cool audiences and from time to time, I also teach MBA negotiations at the Schulich School of Business, which is another big love of mine, teaching and academia.
Michael LeBlanc 03:29
You mentioned you were in packaged goods. So, before you became a professional negotiation coach and negotiator, I guess for hire, I could say, tell me a bit about how you got there. Where did you start your professional career and what are the, what are the milestones there?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 03:45
Well, before I did my MBA, I actually had a small retail business growing up and then I went to do my MBA in organization behavior, and I was recruited by L'Oreal. So, my days at L'Oreal, I was basically negotiating with Walmart on a daily basis immediately. So, those, you know, how do you get them to buy more of your product and less of somebody else's and then I was poached from there to another company where I was in the grocery world, and then a, and a consulting firm was hired to train us to be better negotiators and they went, you should really be doing what we do and I was like, yeah, sure, someday, I was still in my 20s at that point. No, seriously, you should be doing what we do and I joined them and I spent the next almost five years with them traveling all over the world, working with companies and everybody from the junior account managers to the C suite executives.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 04:35
And then seven years ago, I quit that job and I, my clients kept going, hey, when are you going to come back to work with us and I said, well, I don't work for that company anymore and they said, we didn't hire the company, we hired Fotini. So, that's, that's how my current business was born, but it all started by understanding what are those dynamics between a buyer and a seller, how do you build relationships, how do you use those relationships to acquire more wealth, how do you, you influence those relationships daily to make sure that you minimize conflict and, you know, I, at the time was working with one of the highest conflict retailers in the business and I felt like well, if I can learn on, on that, kind of, playing ground, then everybody can learn something from those experiences.
Michael LeBlanc 05:18
And, in early spring 2021, you put out a book, Say Less: Get More Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want. So, tell me about why you wrote the book, I mean, reading through it, it's a real intersection of the personal, professional, right from the beginning with your dedication, what does it say, to my family who sealed my fate by giving me loads of negotiation practice. So, tell me about why I wrote the book and, and how it connects for you and start there about your, a bit of the tradecraft about writing, writing the book.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 05:47
So, my story is a bit of a bizarre one, I wrote the book because Harper Collins asked me to. So, I had an email in my inbox from someone saying, hey, we saw some of your videos online and
Michael LeBlanc 05:59
You should write a book.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 06:00
We've heard your name a lot, we think you have a book in you and I went, okay, but the reason, when you, you don't just write one haphazardly like that, it took a year of evenings and weekends because I had a full time job. So, the reason I dedicated the time to do it was because I had always been trying to figure out, how do I get my information to the masses because it's great when corporate folks can pay me a lot of money to help their teammates, but then I meet people all the time who go, obviously, I can't afford your fees, how do I, you know, improve my situation for myself and it was great to be able to do that in keynote format.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 06:36
But again, if you're not working for those organizations, despite the fact that I do try to work with as many nonprofits as I can.
Michael LeBlanc 06:42
Sure.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 06:42
It's very hard to get that information to people who need it. So, it was a great opportunity for me to go, all right, I keep telling people that everyone negotiates, that you don't just do it in these fancy boardrooms, that you do it at home all the time, and that you do it every day when you're interacting with human beings, or even dogs for that matter, but how do you bring it to them and really, the book was a really, a gift to be able to do that to give people this reference guide, something to sit on their shelf, something to look at when they can't afford an expensive coaching session with someone like me.
Michael LeBlanc 07:14
Right, right on. Well, it's a great, a great book. I've had a chance to go through it and it's got lots of great techniques and tips. It's not the first negotiation book, right, since, I mean, Getting to Yes, is that classic book and why do you think there is room on the shelf or, I guess, Harper Collins for what you had to say? How is your book, you know, if I, if I like negotiating books, which I do, why would, why would I pick yours up, would you take a different tack to it and describe your thinking about when you sat down to write the book, I'm sure you said, well, I just don't want to write another negotiating book that's already been written, I want to kind of infuse it with my own ethos. Talk about that a little bit.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 07:48
Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, I've read a lot of really great negotiation books. The, the issue I had in terms of, there was still a gap out there, was so many of them that have come across my path, I've taken little nuggets out of all of them, but I always found even when it came to advice from the outside of books, I was always surrounded by older white men. That's been my career path, that's been my circumstances. It's just been how I've been present in the world and the advice that they gave me didn't always work for me and I found some of that out the hard way and then I started doing more and more research about where, where's it going wrong and why some of this stuff is going wrong.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 08:31
And I went, okay, well, if I'm figuring this stuff out, how do I spare someone else, that pain and so what happened was, I use the analogy of the on ramp versus the stairs, the majority of the population can use the stairs, those able-bodied folks, folks can use the stairs, but everybody can use the on ramp. So, my goal was, is to always share information that everyone can use. When you find the weakest denominator, the weakest common denominator, whether it's women, minorities, you know, anybody who is ostracized or marginalized in some way, if I can find advice that's going to work for them, then that advice will work for everybody else in the room as well and so that was the goal with this, so that nobody feels left out, so that it's not too much jargon, or too much academia, or it's not one of those books where people look at it and go, eh, that doesn't apply to me, I'm not in that world. I wanted everybody to feel like they're a part of this world and everybody to feel like every single nugget of this book was going to be useful to them.
Michael LeBlanc 09:29
It's a good segue to my next question, which is who should read the book, my audience, my listeners, retailers, you've already talked about working with world class retailers at Walmart and you know, they're nonstop negotiators. Is this the book for those who, kind of, imagine that there's more out there, as you've described, the kind of, the on ramp, is it, is it a graduate class in negotiation strategy, what, how would, who do you, who did you imagine would benefit or who did you write the book for?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 09:55
I feel like it's a marketer's nightmare because it's to everybody, but really, it's those people who want to improve themselves, who are looking for some, a little bit of personal development and who go, yeah, this is a really easy, enjoyable storytelling way for me to do that. So, you know, somebody who is, is seeking more knowledge, obviously, I know non, nonfiction business books are not everybody's cup of tea. But if my mother can read it, then I think everybody should read it because she doesn't enjoy nonfiction books at all and she's like, oh, I really liked it, as soon as I read the first story I started reading more and more. So, I was like, well, that's a relief for me. I truly feel like it's for everybody and I'm, and I think it's particularly important for younger people to read it. So, I love when I hear people saying, I bought it, and I gave it to my mentee, or I bought it, and I gave it to my, you know, university student kid, or, or somebody like that. I do think it's for everybody and I'm flattered when senior executives will tell me that they got something out of it, but I think it's particularly important for anybody who is about to go through some life changing negotiation, so that they have, they're armed with everything that they need to maximize that opportunity.
Michael LeBlanc 11:05
What do many people get wrong about or when they negotiate what, what's the common first wrong step, or some of the things, the myths, you could say, about negotiating?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 11:16
I'd say the biggest misconception is what we're fed in pop culture. So, when you look at movies and TV shows, people will always say to me, ooh, your life must be like that show suits and I'm like, actually, my life is way before any of that happens, my job is to prevent a lot of that stuff. So, it's not the fast-talking slick, power suit type of stuff, it is those who are really successful at it do a lot less talking. That's one of the reasons why the title is ‘Say Less, Get More’. So, how can you be present, how can you show up in a way that people are going to know you're there, but you don't have to fill that void, you have the confidence, to sit there quietly and absorb all of the information that's coming your way, because I think everybody's heard, the old adage of knowledge is power. So, how do you get that knowledge, it's not by giving it away and talking and filling all the air, it's by listening to what people are feeding you and then you can use that to your advantage.
Michael LeBlanc 12:13
You know, as you say, you spent a lot of time on, on tone and approach and, you know, basically, the title of your book, in this era, lots of email, in the COVID era lots of Zoom and disconnected from an in person discussion and you know, tone and body language is a bit stilted or it's hard to come by or it's easy to be misread, any of those things. Any thoughts on, on our current era of, of how we can negotiate through these actually, I call them handicaps in some ways, you know, how fast an email that's maybe written in haste and poorly written can be misinterpreted. Any, any thoughts on that?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 12:48
Yeah. I did a gig for Microsoft a few years ago and I asked them like, can you please, please work with me to come up with a pause button over send button because it's so easy to quickly hit send, whether it's a text message, and email, and so on and that's where I want people to check themselves and go, wait a second, is this really what I want to be saying right now, can I edit myself for that tone, is my sarcasm truly coming across or is it even appropriate at this particular moment.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 13:17
You know, there are definitely ways that you can be polite and respectful and even firm on email, but you have to be really conscious of who specifically is my audience because what I send to one person may receive differently by somebody else and it might be cool for you to have quick and swift emails, chains back and forth with, you know, one person that you're dealing with, but the other person that you're dealing with finds that really rude and I and I tell a story in the book where I learned that lesson the hard way, when I was going back and forth with one of my administrators in my office in New York. And the next time I was visiting in the office, I was like, ‘Hey, I noticed that you're not quite as responsive to something up, like what's going on?’ and she goes, ‘You know what Fotini, I don't like the emails that I get from you’. I was like, ‘whoa’ and it was, she didn't like getting these bullet point form emails and the reason for those-
Michael LeBlanc 14:06
It felt (inaudible) to her right.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 14:07
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 14:07
Like, yeah.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 14:08
Even though she knew, like, the reason I was getting, sending those emails was because I was running a workshop and when I had a five-minute break, that was my time to run to the bathroom. That was my time to answer a question from someone who was, you know, coming up to me, that was my time to check in my voicemails and my emails. So, I was always quick on the go, and going, hey, so and so can you do this, this and this. Thanks, bye and even though I was saying thanks at the end, that wasn't polite enough for her. She needed paragraphs instead of bullet points she needed, hey, how's your weekend going, hope you're having a great day and it doesn't take very long. I think I did the math in the book too, like how many extra words did I need to insert, and I think it took like 41 seconds to be able to, you know, have that polite sandwich in my email and that eased her body language and eased her mind a little bit and it made her more receptive to what I was writing. So, we do have to take that time to pause, and this is one of those moments where I tell people you pause to actually speed up, because now you're not going to have to write five more corrective emails, you can get it done properly in one shot.
Michael LeBlanc 15:10
I worked for someone who had a built into it program, I think you can do it in Outlook, a delay for her emails to be sent, she would, she would hit send, and they wouldn't actually send for 15 minutes, you could override it and she would often say, and it was a great lesson for me too because I, you know, you think about something you just wrote and then, you know, sometimes you might regret it in just some way shape or form you phrase, anyway, that's great, there's, there's my great tip or whatever to the (inaudible) on Microsoft.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 15:38
I encourage people to use that delayed Outlook because it can get dangerous, if you don't
Michael LeBlanc 15:43
Now, for classically to be trained negotiators, sometimes they shape their approach at the beginning of negotiation to, either, distributive or iterative negotiations, do you find that useful framework?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 15:55
I do. I mean, in the book, I talk about a spectrum. So, distributive is what some of us would know in the language of competitive, cold, tough, those are the types of words that
Michael LeBlanc 16:04
You're more, you're buying a house, right, you're not going to buy a house from these people 10 more times, you're going to buy it once, right, kind of that.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 16:09
And you don't have a relationship with them, that's why it's so transactional, and there's only cash, this is the only thing that we're talking about. It's just money and that makes it by nature, very cold. So, it is appropriate to go what is the context here, what are the variables involved, what are the relationships at stake, is there something more long term about it and I find more than anything, I, in, especially in the world where most of your listeners are listening, when we're dealing with this retail and supplier world, it's not usually one off things. So, there's, there's sometimes a mistake that happens when you're too much in that competitive zone because you go, yeah, I want the best price, but there are other things in the mix, there's quality, there's supply chain, there's service levels, there's all of these other things that could,
Michael LeBlanc 16:51
There's the next, there's the next negotiation with the same person, right, that's the nature of being iterative, right.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 16:55
Exactly, so, it's not, it's not a one off transaction, it's not one and done. On the flip side, I find when I speak to suppliers, too many of them err on the side of, well, this is a relationship, we're partners and I cringe when I hear them say that word because partnership means the most integrative, the most collaborative types of negotiations, I will do something at my expense for the sake of the partnership and I rarely see that in the retail world. So, it's just the dynamic at stake. So, people assume that they're too integrative at times and that means that you're going to make the mistake of being taken advantage of in those situations too. Partnership and relationships don't mean you're going to, you're going to go on vacation together and have a beer after work together every single night.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 17:38
So, most of the time, when I talk about those integrative or collaborative negotiations, the most collaborative ones are the ones that you're having internally because you are working with these people day in and day out, you need to have those relationships, you're both heading in the same direction, you both want your organization to achieve the same objectives. When you're dealing with someone across the table, who's external, you might be, kind of, what I call, in the middle of the spectrum, where yes, there's definitely huge parts that are competitive because it's a lot of cash that we're talking about, but there are these other little, tiny bits and pieces, these other variables that move us tiny steps along the spectrum towards a slightly more collaborative place. So, I like the spectrum visual because it's not black and white, it's not, it's competitive, or it's collaborative, there is this space in between where you do have to be mindful of, I have to deal with this person again at some point, or I have to make sure they follow up on this thing. If they're going to cut me a check, who am I getting it from, when am I getting it, how are they going to deliver it, all of those types of things as well. So, there's the extra kind of color or variants around it that we have to be keeping in mind when we're considering the context of each negotiation.
Michael LeBlanc 18:42
Yeah, I guess, that, that's such a great point, because you, it's important you understand, is this a zero sum gain negotiation, I'm buying a car, I'm never going to see this person again, I want to optimize my outcome, or is it a, you know, leave a, leave a little bit extra on the table, potentially, so I can, you know, have a great negotiation next time, kind of, thing, so, very, very good.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 19:01
Yeah. I mean, you mentioned buying a house. I remember the, I sold my house about a year and a half ago, I moved, and the agent said to me, oh, these, you know, these people with the highest bid, they added a video for you, I'm like, I'll watch it after I sign the papers. This is not going to influence me in any way shape, for me, this is just cash. This is nothing else that's going to affect my decision making, but some people are trying to ingest into this more collaborative space.
Michael LeBlanc 19:25
Well, it's all part of the negotiation. Now, explain the idea of, it's one of my favorite ideas in negotiation of BATNA and how it can help you walk away in a negotiation or understand what you're willing to walk away with. Explain that for the people.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 19:38
Yeah, so BATNA is a Harvard term. It's the best alternative to a negotiated agreement. In simpler terms, it's a plan B. So, the more Plan B's, C's, D's, E's and F's that you have, the more options you have and when it comes to negotiation, the more options you have, the more power you have because now you are no longer dependent on the other party. Would it be nice to go with Plan A, absolutely and that's why we're having this negotiation to begin with, but I know that if it doesn't work out, I have plans B, C, D, and E.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 20:08
So, you know, in the real estate world, there's a running joke of fall in love with three houses, not one, because if you're falling in love with that one, you're going to pay through the nose for it, but the more options you have, the less dependent you are, the less you know, you're going to have to pay for this particular thing. So, when it comes to negotiations, in general, that your, your optimal choice is the one that you're trying to negotiate, but if you have to walk away, if for some reason, it doesn't work out, your BATNA is what you're walking to and it may not be as great as the original plan A, but it's not so terrible that you're going to be completely stuck. So, you shouldn't be agreeing to something that's going to make your life miserable. So, it's being able to accumulate as many of those BATNAs as possible when you're in that zone.
Michael LeBlanc 20:52
Let's, if you can, I mean, I encourage everybody to pick up the book. I mean, it's not a short book, it's not a, an airplane read, it's pretty comprehensive. If you could boil down the top three things. I mean, one of them is probably in the title, to be successful at negotiating, what would those be?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 21:09
I'd say the number one thing is to, truly, shut up, there are those moments where you want to keep yourself from spewing out all the information. There's also those moments where you need them to be giving you information and like I said earlier, they can't do that if you're constantly doing the talking. So, saying less and getting more, truly, was the epitome of the number one lesson to take out of it, take that moment to pause and even you know, when you're faced with difficult situations, we tend to get into our cave person mode, and that fight or flight or freeze instinct and so, that's where we tend to make a lot of mistakes. If you can say less, that's giving yourself a moment to compose yourself, to think of what really is the best thing for me to do or say here. So, shutting up is the first one.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 21:51
I'd say the second biggest piece of advice that I give constantly, and I spend a lot of time in the book on it, is asking questions. So, if you're somebody who's uncomfortable with silence, if you're somebody who doesn't know just how to sit there and be quiet, when you are tempted to say something, make it a question that prompts the other person to do the talking. So, there's none of these awkward silences because you're now inviting them to give you lots of information. You're inviting them to give you power and even though people might think, but, but aren't I supposed to be in charge of this conversation by asking questions, you are the one in charge, you're the one in the driver's seat, you're turning that wheel in the direction that you want it to go. So, asking questions is another great way of collecting information, but it's also a wonderful way of making the conversation seem much more collaborative, so that you're not they're not feeling as though they just got beaten up in this entire conversation or forced or at gunpoint to give you this information. So, it's a more collaborative approach to communicating.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 22:47
And I'd say, what's the last one I would choose, I would say the big one often overlooked, is to consider things from their perspective. So, you know, your perspective, you know, your objections coming in, you know, your objectives going in. What about them, have you thought about, have you anticipated some of the issues that are going to be important to them, have you anticipated some of the objections that they're going to be having, have you anticipated some of the obstacles that they may be facing when they leave this room, and some of the follow ups and deliverables and all of those things, you really need to put yourself in the other person's shoes so that you are more thorough, and that you can anticipate a lot of the problems that could come up and prevent them in that vein as well. So, it's being able to balance all three of those, I think would make anybody a successful negotiator.
Michael LeBlanc 23:35
Fantastic. Well, the book is, Say Less, Get More: Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want. Fotini, if I wanted to, be one to learn more, maybe hire you for one of those great keynotes or just find the book, where would people go?
Fotini Iconomopoulos 23:50
I mean, the book is everywhere. So, whether it's Amazon or Indigo, or Barnes & Noble, or wherever you buy your stuff and I've made all of my social media easy to find. So, you don't have to spell the whole last name. It's @fotiniicon, whether it's fotini@fotiniicon.com, for email or on social media on Instagram, I'm giving it lots of advice and saving them in my stories there. So, yeah, people are welcome to reach out.
Michael LeBlanc 24:12
Oh, very good. Well, thanks so much for being my guest. It was great to chat with you. I always love talking about negotiation. Very interesting. Great book. Congratulations. I wish you continued success and once again, thanks for joining me on the Voice of Retail.
Fotini Iconomopoulos 24:24
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Michael LeBlanc 24:27
Thanks for tuning into today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Sure and follow the podcast on Apple Spotify or wherever you enjoy podcasts so you don't miss out on the latest episodes industry news and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating review as it really helps us grow so that we continue to get amazing guests onto the show.
Michael LeBlanc 24:45
I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
Michael LeBlanc 24:55
Until next time, stay safe. Have a great week!
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
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