There’s no doubt that the last twenty months have changed us and our relationship with the world. For retailers, this has resulted in an unprecedented shift in consumer behaviour that has proven difficult to stay ahead of, let alone predict. In today’s episode of The Voice of Retail, we’re going to step inside the mind of the modern consumer by unpacking the latest research coming out of EY. I’m thrilled to be welcoming back to the podcast Kristina Rogers, Chairwoman of the Global Consumer Board, who takes us through the latest edition of EY’s Future Consumer Index. We cover the key takeaways, surprising findings + more.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada
There’s no doubt that the last twenty months have changed us and our relationship with the world. For retailers, this has resulted in an unprecedented shift in consumer behaviour that has proven difficult to stay ahead of, let alone predict.
In today’s episode of The Voice of Retail, we’re going to step inside the mind of the modern consumer by unpacking the latest research coming out of EY.
I’m thrilled to be welcoming back to the podcast Kristina Rogers, Chairwoman of the Global Consumer Board, who takes us through the latest edition of EY’s Future Consumer Index. We cover the key takeaways, surprising findings + more.
Stick around for Kristina’s three pointers for retailers that are planning for 2022 and beyond.
Thanks for tuning into today’s episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode please consider leaving a rating and review, as it really helps us grow so that we can continue getting amazing guests on the show.
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!
Until next time, stay safe and have a great week!
Kristina Rogers
Globally led fastest growing set of industries at EY - from FY16-FY20 - by 2%. A creative and experienced senior executive leader in the areas of strategic marketing, corporate strategy, and global business development. Global sponsor and architect of both EY’s signature FutureConsumer.Now program and the EY Global Future Consumer Index.
Areas of expertise include new concept and offer development, profitable growth planning, market entry strategy, strategic portfolio management, and market evolution planning in both the B2C and B2B marketplaces. Highly team-oriented and able to develop and communicate clear vision while assembling and galvanizing high-performing teams. Has had long-term client relationships with the world largest soft-drinks company, largest confectionery company, and largest FMCG/CPG firm working at the EVP and CEO levels. Currently Kristina is the Global Consumer Industries Leader at EY working to implement EY's global Consumer Industries strategy and to deliver exceptional client service to EY's global clients.
Kristina is a truly global citizen having lived, worked, and travelled in over 50 countries. Previously, Kristina was the Emerging Market Leader for Consumer Products at EY. In this role Kristina worked extensively with EY teams and clients across markets such as Brazil, India, Turkey, MENA, and Asean.
Over the years, Kristina has been a formal mentor to a number of high potential women in her field and was an Executive Member of Monitor Group's (now Deloitte) Global Women's Initiative. She is a member of the Financial Times 'Global Board Ready Women' group and peviously sat on Medtronic's Corporate Advisory Board. In Turkey, Kristina was selected as one of 40 women by Forbes Magazine to join 'More Women on Boards' or 'Yonetim Kurullarinda Daha Cok Kadin' encouraging more female Board participation.
Kristina is an accomplished public speaker and panelist and has spoken at various conferences on the topics such as 'Keeping Senior Women in the Workplace' and 'Winning with Consumers in the Marketplace'.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and the all new Conversations with CommerceNext podcast.
Last but not least, check out my new YouTube cooking show, Last Request Barbecue!
You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to the Voice of Retail, I'm your host Michael Leblanc and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:10
There’s no doubt that the last twenty months have changed us and our relationship with the world. For retailers, this has resulted in an unprecedented shift in consumer behaviour that has proven difficult to stay ahead of, let alone predict.
Michael LeBlanc 00:21
In today’s episode of The Voice of Retail, we’re going to step inside the mind of the modern consumer by unpacking the latest research coming out of EY.
Michael LeBlanc 00:29
I’m thrilled to be welcoming back to the podcast Kristina Rogers, Chairwoman of the Global Consumer Board, who takes us through the latest edition of EY’s Future Consumer Index. We cover the key takeaways, surprising findings and more.
Michael LeBlanc 00:41
Stick around for Kristina’s three pointers for retailers that are planning for 2022 and beyond.
Kristina Rogers 00:48
I mean, I think we can drop new now, I don't think we need to say we're living in a new normal, you know, the way we're reading our data is that most consumers around the world are living in normal, right, whatever that has come to mean, you know, for them and so, in the most recent research, you know, we noted that 63% of consumers say that the new habits they've adopted, whatever those are, feel like the way they will carry on.
Michael LeBlanc 01:12
Let's listen in now. Kristina, welcome to the Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing?
Kristina Rogers 01:17
Hey, Michael. I'm great and delighted to be back and very sorry, we couldn't make good on our promise to meet up in person. I think we did promise that quite some time ago, but at least the border is open. So, there's some progress there, which is fantastic.
Michael LeBlanc 01:34
You're right, you're right on all those accounts. A, it's not your first. I think it's your third time on the podcast. So welcome back, I should say and then, B, we're making progress, right, where the borders open and as I've been saying, you can see the end zone, the goalposts keep moving a little bit, but things are good. You're traveling now, we were talking off mic, you're starting to travel a little bit, which is back to you, your old life. Hey, I'm curious, are you, you know, as you think about your life, the tradecraft of what you do, do you imagine today going back to travel the same way, do you think it's going to ramp up or do you think it's changed for, for good, do your, do your clients still want to see you in person and see you in the data room, like, how are you feeling about that?
Kristina Rogers 02:17
I hope they don't want to see me in the data room. I think it's changed for good, simply for, uh, for a couple of reasons. One, at least in my case, and I, but I think for all professional services, I, you know, I had a very good relationship with people that I worked with, as a result of all the traveling, I did, you know, pre pandemic, so it's been a very easy transition to things that are, you know, over video, then we figured out how to do all of that and do it, you know, reasonably well, I mean, people tire of it, but and I do think in person now, and then it's going to be necessary, because a that's just I think, what we all need, but I don't think we're going back to that and frankly, certainly from an EY perspective, we are we have made a lot of carbon commitments, and us not traveling the world helps to support some of those.
Michael LeBlanc 03:10
Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I thought you were gonna say that. It probably does, as it does for everyone, it's, you know, it's very cost effective as well. So, you can transfer even more value to your clients, you know, by not traveling the world, but that's interesting, the sustainability angle.
Kristina Rogers 03:25
Yeah, I think you're well, that there's the third leg, which I think you just said well, which is certainly just expenses down and all of that. So, there's a number of reasons why I can't see that returning and I frankly, after, you know, a couple of years now without doing international travel, I don't need it to return in that way, personally.
Michael LeBlanc 03:46
Well, we've jumped right in. So, let's take a quick step back. Tell us about yourself, a bit of your background for those folks who hadn't heard our prior interviews and what you do at EY.
Kristina Rogers 03:56
So, I am Canadian by background, I don't know if that's as evident anymore, Michael, but my accent has changed since I, most of my career, has been abroad. Living in Turkey, in the UK and, and here in the US now and at EY, I'm our, I am our Global Consumer Industries leader, hence the conversation around traveling so much. I used to spend a lot of time with retailers and consumer products companies around the world and my role is really to think about where are those industries going and hence, what's EY's reaction, what sort of services do we need to continue to develop and coordinate to ensure that we, you know, bring the best of EY to our clients in those spaces.
Michael LeBlanc 04:42
Now, where do you, where are you based out of, what do you call home and where are we talking to you today, where do you situate in the US?
Kristina Rogers 04:48
I'm based in Chicago now and so that always reminds me of my early days working in Toronto, very similar cities to some extent and on the lake. So, that's where I am, I've been in the, in the Chicago area for about six years now.
Michael LeBlanc 05:03
Oh, fantastic and now Illinois, I think, is, has legalized recreational cannabis, am I right, is that one of the things in the States, in the state?
Kristina Rogers 05:10
Well, it's the number of stores that have popped up and I'm sure you went through the same thing a few years ago, but certainly there's plenty of evidence that it is legal from all of the new stores that are around and then at the airport, you have the drop boxes. Yeah, encouraging people to, you know, drop their goods before going to a state where it's not legal, or a country.
Michael LeBlanc 05:35
So, yeah, we, we had it. Here in Ontario, there was a big log jam because of some decisions made by the government, but then that log jam opened up in the middle of COVID. We had 1000 stores open last year.
Kristina Rogers 05:48
Yeah, it's crazy.
Michael LeBlanc 05:49
In the last 12 months and, you know, as I often say, it's, it's wonderful, because it's not creating a new market, it's actually just shifting that market, from, you know, organized crime into the legal market where they pay taxes and hire employees and do all those things.
Michael LeBlanc 06:02
So, I don't know what, what, what will be interesting to see for both of us, maybe next time we chat, in that little vertical because it's an, it's a microcosm of competition because all right, so there's 10 of them in a block, as you said, it's probably the same, they tend to cluster a little bit, can they all survive, should they all survive, how do they survive, what's the, how do they differentiate, so it's pretty interesting, right?
Kristina Rogers 06:22
Some of them are enormous, to be honest. I mean, there's the high street types, which are, you know, if you think about, you know, just on the, but then there are some that are really, really big and here, it's a little different, your experience is probably different in that it's a nation-, national legalization.
Michael LeBlanc 06:37
Yeah.
Kristina Rogers 06:37
Whereas here at state by state, so that presents its own challenges of just being in business,
Michael LeBlanc 06:42
Yeah, just banking, for example.
Kristina Rogers 06:44
Banking, for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 06:45
Anyway, this isn't a podcast, but retail cannabis, but I think we could have one because it's a pretty fun topic.
Kristina Rogers 06:51
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 06:51
Let's talk about the Eighth Edition of the EY Future Consumer Index. So, first of all, it's out now and available, I'll ask you later where we can find it, maybe I'll be able to put a link in the show notes, but first of all, tell us about the overall objectives of the index itself, and a little bit of the tradecraft the methodology, scope and scale, that kind of stuff.
Kristina Rogers 07:13
Well, Michael, it's incredible to think that this work has been going on since April 2020. I, you know, at the time just took the my remaining budget for the our fiscal year and said, let's launch something to, you know, track consumer behavior, I had an inkling that since our lives had been turned upside down, there might just be some changes in consumer behavior and sentiment along the way and the point of the index is really to do that right to track consumer behavior, intent and sentiment, as we were going through the pandemic and as you just said, we're on cycle eight, now, we cover 16,000 people across 21 countries and we've added, this go around, Mexico and South Africa, with the hope of being able to keep, keep those countries in, in the index, as, you know, it feels to me like this has been something where we look back and was seven interesting. I mean, in such a short period of time, but transition, you know, sentiment and consumer behavior really is changing.
Michael LeBlanc 08:15
Yeah and Canada, we should mention, for my Canadian audience, for those in Canada, Canada is included in your results. I'm just reading your 16,000 consumers, and it was done, very recent, right, six weeks,
Michael LeBlanc 08:27
Early, early October.
Michael LeBlanc 08:28
Early October. So, we're talking about fresh
Kristina Rogers 08:30
Fresh data.
Michael LeBlanc 08:31
Data.
Kristina Rogers 08:33
Yep, fresh off the truck4. So, but Canada is involved and has been involved from the beginning. So, it's very interesting, we can do a really nice, deep dive into each country that's been there from the start.
Michael LeBlanc 08:45
Well, it's often the case when I look at global studies that include Canada. On the one hand, it's remarkable how attitudes are fairly global, like, there's some differences, but not many, but every now and then there's something that, that pokes itself up as a very, as something culturally or materially different. So, we'll look forward to seeing a slice of that data as well.
Michael LeBlanc 09:05
All right, so let's, let's dig in. So, you know, when you and, you and I are talking off mic about both our experiences, talking to retailers, and brands, who are saying, okay, I get that we've had, you know, the circuit breaker of consumer behavior for 18 months, 24 months, by the time we're done 36 months by the time we're done, who knows. What has changed in terms of consumer behavior and habits just to accommodate the weirdness of COVID, the COVID era, but more fundamentally interesting, what is changed permanently, what is what has actually altered consumer behavior on a go forward basis? So, so, as you think about that question, what, what, jumps out at you from the research where consumers are saying, you know, this has changed this, this is different behavior from pre COVID from the before time?
Kristina Rogers 09:52
Yeah, and you made a good point. I mean, one of the things we were trying to track, track, in be in terms of behavior, is what would stick and then what would, kind of, go back to the way we were, and I think from my perspective, and I'll given I've got fresh data, I will drop some, some data bombs on you. We, I mean, I think we can drop new now, I don't think we need to say we're living in a new normal, you know, the way we're reading our data is that most consumers around the world are living in normal, right, whatever that has come to mean, you know, for them and so in the most recent research, we noted that 63% of consumers say that the new habits they've adopted whatever those are feel like, the way they will carry on, right, so 50%, you know, expect to continue living the way they have been living.
Kristina Rogers 10:41
And they like some of their new habits, whether it's flexibility, but certainly workwise, the use of digital, starting to focus on experiences and better experiences, and, you know, having, you know, reflected on what they've been through, you can see that consumers are looking for what a better version of normal, let's say and I think part of that is just accepting that risks and threats are, kind of, around every day and they're everyday concerns and that they, you know, that there's not, there's not much to do to worry about them, unless it's a real financial worry that you can't provide for yourself. So there's, I think, a real sense of just getting on with it.
Kristina Rogers 11:20
So, that's one thing we've seen. Certainly, one thing that we've been noticing, and we will continue to track this going forward, is this desire to want less random consumption. So, I don't have the hard and fast economic spending data so it's sentiment and intent, but consumers are saying they want to buy better, right, they've had time to reflect better quality, and wanting to use their, their money in a better way.
Michael LeBlanc 11:46
Hmm, less stuff more purpose or more, you know,
Kristina Rogers 11:49
More experience, more purpose, you see, yes, spending less on what they see as unnecessary. So, you even, I think, maybe you had this experience, Michael, just sitting at home working from home, noticing all the things that you have around you, that are maybe not needed.
Michael LeBlanc 12:07
Clutter, a little bit of a clutter, yeah.
Kristina Rogers 12:09
Clutter, clutter for sure. We even saw, I mean, you know, something like 48% of people said, it became very obvious, this will make you laugh, that they had too many clothes. Now, we weren't doing much, we were all sitting around, right in the same yoga pants and just looking good, good from the neck up, but, but I think that will stay. I mean, that feels to me like a trend that's been tracking, and we're just seeing it strengthen over time.
Michael LeBlanc 12:34
Apparel, has been just in one way, some parts of apparel have just thrived, you know, your Lulu, your active wear your casual wear, but other parts of apparel have just been punished during the COVID era, it sounds like if you're, if you were sitting in front of some of the fast fashion, folks, they've got a challenge on their hands by, you know, if I read that into your data that I want to buy better and buy product that's going to last, I still see volumes coming out of, you know, these, some of these brands. So, what is that a paradox in your mind or what do you think's going on there?
Kristina Rogers 13:03
Maybe, there's a bit of catch up with, you know, pent up demand to some extent, and I would like to see the data you have, you know, at a generational basis, because I think there's one of the things that I think to your point is a paradox is you have younger generations, saying that they care more about the environment, they want to be conscious and you know, buy things that are sustainable, but then those are the generations that are also very much influenced by drop culture.
Michael LeBlanc 13:33
And they're buying from Shine, sites like Shine, which you're just like, fast, fast, fast.
Kristina Rogers 13:38
Right, did it drop today, did an influencer tell me I need it and all that, so there's definitely a paradox there.
Michael LeBlanc 13:44
Well, it's like, you know, I talk to my daughter who's in that generation. I'm like, you know, you're, you buy more ethically in all parts of your life, what are you doing hold-, just holding your nose and saying, I'm gonna buy?
Kristina Rogers 13:54
Right, I need, I need, you know, 10 pairs of sneakers and so, but I, you know, so those, those trends are we're definitely monitoring that, but I do think that, you know, one last thing I'll just touch on, and this won't surprise you. I mean, there's just an acceptance that digital is becoming the default.
Michael LeBlanc 14:12
Yeah.
Kristina Rogers 14:12
Right. So that it's the default channel for work, education, shopping, maybe medical appointments, exercise, even socializing, right meals together, watching movies together online, having a glass of wine together, all very accepted now. And there's, you know, a bunch of data hanging around, which really supports that. And if you have a child and the generation we were just talking about, there was a point in your life where you were asking politely and then maybe not so politely for your child to get off their screen.
Michael LeBlanc 14:40
Yeah.
Kristina Rogers 14:41
And you and you actually consciously monitored screen time and that's, I mean, out the window.
Michael LeBlanc 14:48
Yeah, it's out the window, you know, it's, it's, you know, I think this time is, in my mind, full of paradoxes because on the one hand, we see this great acceleration, lots of digital, digital first, but on the other hand, you know, evidence have, you know, stores still matter, stores aren't going anywhere, you see these digital, native vertical brands, you know, they raise money in IPOs and the first thing, first line item on what you're going to do with all this money is open stores. Like, it's really interesting, right, this, this paradox and this, this, this bifurcation, so to speak of, I want to shop in person, I want to shop online and the purpose of stores, right?
Kristina Rogers 15:22
Yeah, and I think that that's one of the things I would say, I'm noticing I've been both out of our data, but also just my observation with clients and reading and so on. The ability to really integrate that physical and digital experience. I think, if you can win there, you're a winner.
Michael LeBlanc 15:40
Yeah, right, right on, right no.
Kristina Rogers 15:41
That's important.
Michael LeBlanc 15:43
How did brands fare during all this? I know you work with a lot of, of big packaged goods, brands are fast moving consumer-good brands or brands of all sorts and I hear two schools of thought one is brands matter more. I mean, that kind of feeds back to your conscious consumption and consume better and I hear others where brands don't matter at all. I'm, I just want what I want and where do you, where do you sit on that anything that came out of the survey around preferences for brands?
Kristina Rogers 16:09
Well, we did see, I mean, we've been tracking, that was something that was fascinating for me too, if you remember, at the beginning of the pandemic, certain items, certain categories, were completely out of stock.
Michael LeBlanc 16:20
Yeah.
Kristina Rogers 16:20
Right, you couldn't find them. So, people did try different brands, not their favorite, or they went to private label and so there's definitely been for certain categories. That has lingered. So, people have found that there are things that are just fine, and they've continued to, to use them and I would say half of our respondents globally, noted that on the whole, you know, brands are less important, I think you, we would want to have an unpack of that, right, at a really detailed category level.
Kristina Rogers 16:50
So, my hypothesis that tends to be for a lot of household, consumer products brands, although to your point, I think there's an opportunity here, too, if you want to think about, you know, quality, if I care about sustainability, and getting information about where these things come from, or how they're made, there's certainly an opportunity to use the brand to signal, right, those sorts of things that I care about. So, I wouldn't, I personally don't believe, Michael, that that is there to stay. So, even though we're getting that kind of response out of our data. That's, that's certainly one thing I would like to see six, nine months’ time, where are we there and I wouldn't expect the same thing in luxury, of course.
Michael LeBlanc 17:35
Right.
Kristina Rogers 17:35
You know that they’re luxury, I think is having a revival in some geographies and, of course, brands matter.
Michael LeBlanc 17:43
Right, right on, yeah, they matter pretty deeply at that, at that level, I had the opportunity to talk to the CMO of Poshmark, for one of my other podcast Conversations with CommerceNext and we were talking about that because they have a, you know, Poshmark they allow, you know, consumers, consumer peer to peer market, but they have a service where they allow or invite consumers to send in their products for validation, you know, if it's, it's a high price brand over $500 and very popular service. So, brands are certainly, you know, I want to know, I'm getting the right, I want to know I'm getting the, the actual brand. That's, that's pretty important any day.
Michael LeBlanc 18:19
Speaking of brands, I'm not sure I would have wanted to be a beauty company over the past two years. I mean, I certainly didn't want to be a beauty company selling lip products, maybe, maybe I want to be a beauty product right now selling teeth whiteners after, you know, he's worn masks and stuff, but what, what, there is some information about how consumers are feeling about the beauty category. In other words, maybe it's like fashion, I, I realized I don't need as much of it, maybe just purely because I'm not going out as much as I used to. You know, again, you see some paradoxes, the hair coloring was one of the top selling items about a year ago.
Kristina Rogers 18:54
Right.
Michael LeBlanc 18:55
And then and then I know in my social circle, that some friends of mine just said, well, forget it, I don't need to do this anymore, I'm not going to color my hair anymore, forget it. So, any, any, any trends that you picked up from a deeper perspective around beauty and the beauty category?
Kristina Rogers 19:10
Yeah, I think this is fascinating to me, as someone who was probably a heavy user, of beauty and cosmetics and I think the beauty industry, the ones that work through social influencers, young, for, you know, geared, maybe, towards younger consumers is still going, you know, reasonably strong, but I think that you're right, if I look at our global data, it suggests that, you know, 47% of respondents intend to pare down their beauty routines and their cosmetics purchases, and that they, you know, are around the same number and this would go across both genders. Just claim they're more comfortable in their own skin. When so they've kind of, you know, reflected and I think that goes hand in hand to your point about of course, we've had less occasions maybe to wear cosmetics,
Michael LeBlanc 19:57
Less going into work certainly, I mean, for sure.
Kristina Rogers 19:59
Less going into work less going out to parties less going out for dinner and so I think a lot of those habits that at least think about my case that I've had, since I'm 15 years old or whatever, right, that's, that's been destroyed, that's been broken and I think that a lot of those products rely on habitual, my habit, but my habit for buying them over and trying new things right, within the category and so, you know, I think the industry does have some thinking to do in terms of what will bring consumers back and maybe, you know, that is if we think about what we were talking about earlier, higher quality products, maybe changing the products, right, being more environmentally conscious or sustainable, both in the packaging and the product, and being able to give us information, right about that. I think that's going to be a real challenge for these companies. They might have great intentions of doing that, but how do I know it's true, how'd you, do I have the data for that, but we, and we've certainly seen more interest in this topic in that category over the life of the Future Consumer Index.
Michael LeBlanc 21:07
Sure, I'd imagine, you know, I thought, at some points during the COVID era, that it would break the back of consumerism, but I look at the dozens of cargo shifts sitting off the coast of Vancouver and, and LA, and I look at the you know, the NRF is talking about between a 9 and a 11% year over year growth in holiday spending and so, you know, again, we've talked about paradox, couple times, it doesn't look like it, it looks like consumers are spending a lot and having a lot of intention, you've, I think, called the pent up demand, whether it's pent up demand, or whether it's just what I've called the stockpile of cash, you know, they're just not spending on other things. What does the survey, what does the survey tell us about, about consumption and then what are your observations?
Kristina Rogers 21:51
I think you're right about the pile of cash. So, people do have money to spend, but I do think they're being more judicious about it. So, what do I, what do I want to spend on and we've definitely seen a change from the very beginning and one of the questions around buying things because it makes them feel happy, right, so we, kind of, associate consumers and sometimes with that, right?
Michael LeBlanc 22:13
Yeah.
Kristina Rogers 22:13
Makes me feel good. I like it. I wanted to buy something.
Michael LeBlanc 22:16
I shop therefore I am right.
Kristina Rogers 22:17
Yeah, and that's really kind of 27% of respondents agreeing with that statement. And so I think there has been a real rethink, and that gets back to the stuff, right, in terms of having too many, too many clothes, or, you know, just too much around my home. So, I think what they, it will be very, I think retailers especially need to really be thinking what are they spending on.
Michael LeBlanc 22:42
Yeah.
Kristina Rogers 22:42
Right, so it's, it, has it, is it transitioning to quality and value versus a large basket
Michael LeBlanc 22:50
53% of consumers are more likely to repair things instead of replacing them. That's interesting, right, that that feels different to me.
Kristina Rogers 23:00
That does feel different. It's less throw away than I think, maybe, I grew up with in some sense, but part of that, I, you know, and we could unpack that from a demographic point of view, but I do think that the one thing and I just mentioned it earlier, when we were talking about the cosmetics, this notion of sustainability, and what we're doing to our planet, has been a topic that has grown in importance, at least in terms of intention through our research and so, you know, we went through that phase last year where the skies were clear in Los Angeles and all that stuff, right, but then I think people also were home and they just saw the amount of garbage and things we throw out and wondering, where's it all going so there's been a lot more conversation about it and I do think there's people out there, consumers out there really trying to see what is the part they can do in the circular economy. I hear that term more and more and it's not just,
Michael LeBlanc 23:59
Upcycling and I hear.
Kristina Rogers 24:00
Not just in Europe anymore.
Michael LeBlanc 24:02
Yeah, you know, that's a really good point because, you know, a lot of these things, whether it's privacy or, or environmental starts in Europe, but I hear a lot of the EU upcycling cross cycle, I mean, even H&M in Canada has launched a resale platform.
Kristina Rogers 24:15
I also think in that case, as you know, we're talking about people shifting some of their spending, even if they've got a pile of cash to spend towards experiences and services.
Michael LeBlanc 24:24
Yeah.
Kristina Rogers 24:25
And so, you know, do I want to repair something, or do I want to get rid of it and have a big cash outlay for something that probably could be fixed, depending on what the what it is. So, there's, I think, some of that going on too. That, that transition between wanting to spend on goods and wanting to spend on things that make me feel happy, whether it's experiences or services I buy, or things I do with you know, family and friends.
Michael LeBlanc 24:51
Yeah, I mean, you know, I mentioned these boats sitting off the coast. These cargo ships part of the supply pain that retailers and consumers are going through. I wonder what your thoughts are, if there's any, anything in the data around substitution because we're, kind of, circling that issue and I was speaking to the media last week, and they said, well, what's going to happen if consumers can't find the thing they were looking for, I said, well, they might not be able to find that brand, but there's 10 others that are similar and I think some of the success in retail for the next, you know, couple of months is going to be consumers’ willingness to substitute or even buy gift cards. Any, any, any insights, or any thoughts on that?
Kristina Rogers 25:27
I agree with you. We've all, the other thing too, Michael, we've all been made aware of, in the media, of the supply chain pinch and that, right, we, most likely, you know, we might not be able to find what we're looking for and actually, we did some research around people's expectations for upcoming holiday shopping and two of the pinch points, especially for online shopping, was, you know, the cost of shipping seems to have risen, and people are becoming aware of that. So, it's expensive, a real friction point and then just finding things.
Kristina Rogers 26:00
So, lots of stock outs when you even look online. So, there was some belief that maybe if you go in store, you might actually find what you're looking for because people-, less people are going to stores. Although, you know, any good retailer can give you visibility of what's in the store, online as well, but I think that, look, we've, some of the data I've seen throughout, and I've shared some of it with you before, people are willing to substitute. We've all lived through the last, you know, 18 months of, you know, either buying things, not buying things, finding brands we want and not finding them, I think, you know, there's a lot more openness to the things you're describing for a vast majority of consumers.
Michael LeBlanc 26:44
Anything surprise you from the results in the survey, anything jump out and go, wow, I didn't expect that?
Kristina Rogers 26:52
There was some data that caught my eye, and this isn't, so I'm not a psychologist and neither are you.
Michael LeBlanc 26:58
I play one on television.
Kristina Rogers 26:59
Right, exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 27:00
I play one on the podcast.
Kristina Rogers 27:01
That sort of thing, but I, this isn't really around shopping or buying, or, but it's, you know, even in our most recent round, so October 2021, 35% of respondents said they feel lonelier now than they did, you know, prior to the pandemic, so two years ago, and maybe that's not surprising, but what I found interesting was, you know, 52% said, they're much likely, they're much less likely to want to leave their home than before, unless they have to and so, you know, presumably, somehow those things are related, but our, you know, our physical social routines have really been busted up and, you know, like, how are we going to get people to be social again and off screens, you know, or is that necessary, are we transitioning into something where
Michael LeBlanc 27:57
The Meta universe we're trying, we're going to the Meta, the Meta-verse.
Kristina Rogers 28:01
Yeah, and I'm sure this looks different generationally, but, you know, I wondered about the impact that that has, if I feel lonely, and I don't necessarily want to go out for much, like, what am I, how am I shopping, you know, what am I buying, how am I even getting the necessities I need and so on and how long will this take to transform or is, is that just where we are?
Michael LeBlanc 28:25
Well, it's an interesting point, because as you know, shopping just isn't about a transaction. It's not about just getting a thing, it's social, it's cultural, it's interacting with people and all those things. So, there's a role,
Kristina Rogers 28:37
There's a role to be played, but if people are afraid-, you know, are, sort of, accustomed to not really going out much and that might not be you, you or I, or that might not be our kids, but it's some swath of the population that just doesn't feel the need and I think, you know, some, some data we saw earlier in the year which talked about, you know, our homes becoming our hubs.
Kristina Rogers 28:58
So you know, we've sort of set up gyms in our homes, we just started cooking more or at least ordering in, you know, we were doing all sorts of things from home and home to your point about DIY, home improvement became, right, a big deal, redecorating making your place a lot cozier and so there's, you know, possibly some of that going on, but that to me for retail that just, you know, begs for the you know, continued thinking about the real integration between you know, what I experience digitally when I am home, or wherever I am, if I'm on my phone, on the bus or whatever, and what I experienced when I get to the physical space.
Michael LeBlanc 29:34
So, last question for you, any, any words of wisdom tips or advice, a couple, two, three things that jumped out in terms of advice for the retailers listening about how to think about 2022, 2022 consumers and beyond?
Kristina Rogers 29:46
I think when we were, I think this was off, off mic before we got on, but we were talking about the, you know, the ships sitting around, the ports around the world, and whether what's on them is what people really want now because were those things procured and ordered months and months and months ago.
Michael LeBlanc 30:03
Yeah.
Kristina Rogers 30:04
Right and here they are. And so, I think, you know, after certainly through the holidays, and come January, I think it'll be very important to really have, an, a real analytical look at the data that the sales data, as much as can be rather, you know, not just traditional look, but, you know, has purchasing has what people are buying, you know, actually changed. Is it moving beyond volume to quality, is it moving, is it value for real, you know, what are the intentions here and can we get hold of some, something that might, you know, help understand the transition, better that consumers are going through in terms of mindset, values and habits, you know, that would be, kind of, number one. If I was going to make some investment in terms of just, you know, what am I doing after the holiday period, really understanding what happened and why. I think investing, continued investment in data and technology, so that, you know, you really become a trusted companion or a part of a person's life.
Kristina Rogers 31:04
So we talked about brands, that's part of it, I think brands can indicate trust, but some of the work that, you know, we've been doing, and I don't know, if I shared this previously, around retail is really, you know, getting back to three simple Is, right, immediacy, intimacy, and invisibility in the consumers life. So, immediacy, we all know what that means, I want it when I want it, and get it to me. Intimacy, really knowing me, do you know, what do you know about me, right, stop sending me things that have nothing to do with me, whether it's, you know, texts, emails, other social media marketing, what have you, get to know me, and then being invisible. So, you know, be where I am.
Kristina Rogers 31:42
And I know you've talked about this on previous podcasts, that the consumer, the consumers to channel now. So, I think you've said that many times, and that's true, you need to find me where I am, Mike, that's, that's, I don't find you where you are anymore, especially when I haven't been going out. If you, if you have a physical store, I haven't been there for 18 months, you need to rethink how that works. So, that's certainly something and I think, you know, that gets to going back and forth easily between physical and digital. I think that's the kind of the invisibility part of those three Is and I think we talked about it; do you need to really transform your business from people wanting to consume better not buy more? Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc 32:29
That's a, that's a, that's a big transition, right?
Kristina Rogers 32:31
Right. I mean, haven't we, if we think about our just general economies in the Western world, right, the consumption part of our GDP is generally quite big. What happens when it's not so big, or it's less that what happens to our retailers and the people who want to sell us things, which, in many cases, the model has been based on selling us more?
Michael LeBlanc 32:54
Well, my guest is Kristina Rogers, it is the Eighth Edition of the EY Future Consumer Index, where can folks learn more, get in touch with you and tell us more?
Kristina Rogers 33:04
Well, on ey.com, the global site, there's data to be found, there's the global content, but they should, in every country where we do this research, Canada included, the local sites should have, content should have some, some thought leadership, should have some access to data. There's actually in the, which I have found fascinating myself, to see what our, you know, graphics people can do, you can go around and play with all the data there. So, you just select a country, right, you just select what you want to do. You can compare it to other countries, etc. So, there should be a function on all of those local and the global website where you can read and play around with some of the data and the graphics.
Michael LeBlanc 33:49
Well, fantastic and you're on LinkedIn. Is a great, is that a good way to get in touch and reach out?
Kristina Rogers 33:53
I'm on LinkedIn, I try to pay attention and be active there. So, always, always available there.
Michael LeBlanc 34:00
Well, as always, great conversation. Always learn something when I talk to you. Thank you for joining me on the podcast again. I wish you safe travels when you travel and welcome back to Canada as you can come back and forth as we can both cross the border.
Kristina Rogers 34:13
Much more easily, although I think I wish I was in the testing business. I have to say that.
Michael LeBlanc 34:19
Yeah, last year was the plexiglass business this year is the testing business
Kristina Rogers 34:22
Testing business, that's right.
Michael LeBlanc 34:23
That's right.
Kristina Rogers 34:25
Thank you, this was a pleasure.
Michael LeBlanc 34:27
Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you enjoy podcasts, so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating and review as it really helps us grow so that we continue to get amazing guests onto the show.
Michael LeBlanc 34:45
I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co
Michael LeBlanc 34:55
Until next time, stay safe. Have a great week!
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
consumers, people, brands, data, EY, buy, consumer behavior, podcast, point, changed, retail, Kristina, traveling, habits, retailers, talking, Canada, home, transition, index