Welcome to a special RCC STORE 22 bonus episode of The Voice of Retail podcast! In these STORE bonus episodes, we'll be meeting the keynote speakers that will be joining us to share their insights and wisdom with the Canadian retail industry. In this episode, the one and only Paco Underhill, breakthrough author of the classic Why We Shop, still essential reading for retailers today, and his latest book, How We Eat: The Brave New World Of Food And Drink.
Welcome to a special RCC STORE 22 bonus episode of The Voice of Retail podcast! In these STORE bonus episodes, we'll be meeting the keynote speakers that will be joining us to share their insights and wisdom with the Canadian retail industry. We talk about their background, business, and a preview of the knowledge they will be sharing at Canada's most significant in-person retail event of the year.
In this episode, the one and only Paco Underhill, breakthrough author of the classic Why We Shop, still essential reading for retailers today, and his latest book, How We Eat: The Brave New World Of Food And Drink.
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven’t already, be sure and click subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week, and check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and the Food Professor podcast. Last but not least, if you are into BBQ, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbeque, with new episodes each and every week!
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co! Have a safe week everyone!
About Paco
Paco founded Envirosell Inc. in 1986 as a testing agency for prototype stores. A consulting firm that does research, Envirosell has worked in 50 countries and with more than one-third of the Fortune 100 list. While prototype testing of stores, restaurants and bank branches is still 30% of its business, Envirosell’s largest clients in 2019 were technology companies trying to understand consumer behavior in store, in home, on the job, and on-line. Other clients included global Mall Developers, CPGs, healthcare groups, airports, professional sports clubs, theme parks, home builders, office designers, and on-line agencies. Paco has stepped back as CEO of Envirosell in August of 2020 and gave the company to his young employees. Paco is now the strategic advisor to Envirosell Global LLC.
Paco is the author of popular books including Why We Buy: The Science of Shopping out in 28 languages and used in MBA programs, design schools and retailing training programs across the world. His books and articles are used in English as a Second Language (ESL) textbooks published by both Oxford University Press and National Geographic. His newest book How We Eat: The Brave New World of Food and Drink will be published by Simon & Schuster in January of 2022.
As a speaker and presenter he has worked in 50 countries talking to merchants, marketers, bankers, technologists, hospital groups, government agencies, cultural institutions, non-profits, trade institutions, and most importantly students. As the son of a diplomat who grew up around the world – he has a global perspective and believes in Edutainment – laughter and education are intertwined.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated on thought leadership panels worldwide. Michael was recently added to ReThink Retail’s prestigious Top 100 Global Retail Influencers for a second year in 2022.
Michael is also the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts, including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus the Remarkable Retail with author Steve Dennis, Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. Most recently, Michael launched Conversations with CommerceNext, a podcast focussed on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers - all available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music and all major podcast platforms. Michael is also the producer and host of the “Last Request Barbeque” channel on YouTube where he cooks meals to die for and influencer riches.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:11
Welcome to a special RCC STORE bonus 2022 episode of The Voice of Retail podcast. In these STORE bonus episodes, we'll be meeting the keynote speakers that will be joining us to share their insights and wisdom with the Canadian retail industry. We talked about their background business, and a preview of the knowledge that we'll be sharing at Canada's most significant in person retail event of the year.
In this episode, the one and only Paco Underhill, breakthrough author of the classic Why We Shop still essential reading for retailers today, and his latest book, ‘How We Eat: The Brave New World of Food and Drink’.
Let's listen in now,
Paco, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing this morning?
Paco Underhill 00:47
I'm doing just fine. Michael, how are you doing?
Michael LeBlanc 00:50
I'm doing fantastic. I'm so excited to speak to you. I've, I, I'm a follower your book and your and your writing. So, you and I were talking off mic. We haven't had the chance to meet yet. But hopefully that will come soon enough. So, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast. So welcome.
Paco Underhill 01:05
I'm delighted to be here with you.
Michael LeBlanc 01:08
Now, where am I finding you in the world today.
Paco Underhill 01:12
At the moment, I am looking out my office window in Madison, Connecticut, at a luscious end of spring in New England. The trees are out, the balloons are out. I just got back from Miami. Where it was sunny and hot. And I am very happy to be back here in my New England home.
Michael LeBlanc 01:41
Well, you will be appearing virtually bringing the power of your insights to STORE 2022. So, I want to jump on the mic in advance of the conference which is May 31. June 1 and just do some chit chatting. And I mean ordinarily it would be like who are you.I think most people but not everyone knows who you are. So, I want to spend some time on that. And then talk about your advice and the work what you'll be talking about. So, let's jump in, again a very familiar name to most if not all my listeners. But you know, not everyone knows everything. And there's some young folks maybe who haven't been introduced to you. So, tell me a little bit about yourself, your background, the books you write and, and the work that you do?
Paco Underhill 02:23
Well, Michael, I often introduced myself as a refugee from the world of aca-, academia, that some 40 plus years ago, I used to teach in a doctoral program in environmental psychology or the effect that space has on people's behavior. And I came up with a way of using observers and motion picture cameras to measure how people move in interior spaces. I've never worked in banking, never worked in retail, never taken a business course, never taken a marketing course, but I started knocking on doors going, this is what I can do. And nobody wanted to buy the technology from me.
Paco Underhill 03:06
So, I packaged a service which became the principal testing agency for prototype stores and bank branches in the world. Our original office was based in New York City. But at our peak, we had 10 offices scattered across the world. And we worked in 50 different countries, including many parts of Canada, where, from various provincial liquor authorities to Canadian banks, merchants, I went on to build other tools to be able to look at how people shop or interact with the digital world. And of course, part of what we know in the 2022 is that the line between the physical and the digital world just doesn't exist anymore.
Paco Underhill 03:59
The company that I founded is in Enviro Global LLC. You can look them up online. I started writing books in the late 1990s Why We Buy: The Science of Shopping was originally published in 1999. It's out in 27 languages and is used in design schools and MBA programs still all over the world.
Michael LeBlanc 04:24
Yeah, that's a foundation that was a foundational book, right? I mean, I, I think many of us I was thinking back that's, you know, I was in retail, many of us would that book was on our desks. So, that's, that's a huge accomplishment. I was looking 1999 release, right. And you, you had so much insight that that's still as you said this distinction. You know, this difference without a distinction, this merging, this hybridization of retail was kind of you know, the footprints were there, right?
Paco Underhill 04:52
Well, I think part of what is interesting is that there are the biological constants Michael, which are all that things that stay the same, we're roughly the same height, 90% of our , our of us are right handed, our eyes age in the same way. But retail is also a reflection of the evolution of us. So, if you think of what, what made a good store in 2000, and what makes a good store in 2022, those differences are a reflection of the evolution of us. And that's one of the things I have loved about being involved in retail.
Michael LeBlanc 05:30
Is it and if we talk about evolution, part of evolution, I guess is, is viruses and global pandemics, unfortunately, do you think that's, you know, give me a glimpse of how you think about that? Do you think that's accelerated trends that were already there? Do you think there's something genuinely new going on or probably option C, too early to say?
Paco Underhill 05:51
I think there were five things that were going on before the pan-, pandemic hit, that either got morphed or accelerated by you know, what is happening in our, in our post-COVID world. One is the evolution of our connection to information. I think screens have affected the connection between our eyes and our brains.
Paco Underhill 06:19
Second, is the continuing evolution of gender. You know, as we've uncoupled, (inaudible) from procreation. What is male and what is female is, is in transition.
Paco Underhill 06:33
The third issue is time, and how do we manage it in our multitasking world?
Paco Underhill 06:38
The fourth is what is global and what is local the way someone you know, shops in in Bedek. And the way someone shops in Toronto are different, and how do we respond to it?
Paco Underhill 06:49
And then the final issue is the is the changing evolution of money.
Michael LeBlanc 06:55
Hmm, that's a good one and how we use it, right? I mean that's got, -
Paco Underhill 06:58
and how we use it.
Michael LeBlanc 06:59
Yeah, that I mean, I, I'll take you back to that first one. And we will have a great longer conversation on this. But, you know, the buzz these days is media networks, right. Everything from and it's nothing exactly new. But basically, you know, in-store media, how do you think that affects? I mean, it's, it's seen as, as a positive thing for the merchants and the vendors. Because as you've articulated, you're one of the first to articulate many purchase decisions happen at the shelf. But now you've got so much going on in the store, like, is it, is there a point at which there's just too much going on? And it creates more chaos and confusion then, then (inaudible) the merchant?
Paco Underhill 07:37
I think that's absolutely true. We've been working on in-store media issues for more than 20 years.
Michael LeBlanc 07:42
Yeah, not new, yeah.
Paco Underhill 07:44
So, yeah, I think part of what you're looking at is the, the transition from media to dynamic signage. So, as we get away from paper and ink, and get to something different part of what it looks, or gives us the option of doing is being is having signage be more reflective of who's in the store or online when.
Michael LeBlanc 08:10
I mean, it, it, fe-, I was in a store of the future concept, layout, and I, I started to feel like I was in the middle of Times Square, there's so much messaging going on. And you're right, if you can make it somehow relevant. But even then, you know, combine that with so much, right. Did you see this coming? The amount of self serve, that we're starting to see?
Paco Underhill 08:28
Well, I think the amount of self, self serve is something that we saw in Europe, as retailers responded to labor, la-, labor issues, So, you go to a Swedish super supermarket, you go to a German supermarket, much less a Swiss. And yeah, I mean, part of what we're looking at is Canada, and the US is catching up to the innovations that have been going on in other parts of the world.
Michael LeBlanc 08:57
And, and okay, last question on this, because it's so fun for me to have you on the mic. Do you think that is a net result of what consumers want? Or that there's just so difficult to have to staff? I mean, there's the economics aside, we were right now in a particular moment, where it's very difficult to staff stores or service locations, do you think like banking and ATM you work in the banking sector, people now just get their money from an ATM its a, it's an accepted thing? Do we, do you see the evolution being on a similar kind of trajectory?
Paco Underhill 09:28
Well, I think there are a couple of things there. First of all, is many of the retail banks would love it if they could get out of retail. But the problem is for both banking and for telecoms and tech, is that in 2022, something like 10 to 20% of people walking into a retail bank are walking in angry because they've been unable to solve the problem on the phone or online, part of what is just you know, a truism is that we still live in an analog world.
Michael LeBlanc 10:06
I, I've had that same experience I was with Rogers Communication for a while and understanding and listening and by the time you're standing in line talking to a person you've gone through, you can't do that you haven't been able to work it out in the phone, you haven't been able to work it out online. So, you've got a problem. Like, it's 100% problem solving, like it, (crossover talk), -
Paco Underhill 10:23
And, and that anger is something that you can just stand out a doorway, and watch somebody walk in the door and you know, that the, the one in five people that are walking in are pissed off.
Michael LeBlanc 10:35
Yeah, interesting. Let's get to the, your latest book, you're on. As I said, you are on-stage show day two, the evening, we've got the Canadian Grand Prix New Products awards. So, we're talking about food, your latest book is, How We Eat: The Brave New World of Food and Drink. And you know, what's a give us a glimpse about what you're talking about? Coming up in a couple of weeks?
Paco Underhill 10:56
Well, I, when COVID hit, I decided to retire and I had been working on a manuscript about food and beverage, and I looked at myself in the mirror, and I took probably 60% of the manuscript and threw it out. And my premise is here is if I can help you understand the food chain and the supply chain, I can adjust to your prescription, and therefore help you get to a healthier version of yourself, and a healthier version of our planet. And it is understanding how the store works, understanding how food works. If you're walking into a Loblaws, in January, and you walk into the produce section, and you look at blue berries, where are the freshest blue berries in the store? Are they in the produce section? No, they're in the frozen food section, and they're cheaper.
Paco Underhill 12:00
What are slotting fees, understand that the eye level is something is a position that somebody's bought. And that looking up and looking down is one of the ways that you get to a better, often cheaper product. I took my own advice, Michael and I lost 25 pounds. I'm a I'm a healthier, happier, happier guy now. So, this is a book about changing your prescription, in terms of how you consume.
Michael LeBlanc 12:38
And for the retailers who will be who will be listening, I guess the, the key takeaway is understand that this is in, in motion today, right that people, (crossover talk), are getting more savvy about it, right?
Paco Underhill 12:48
There are there are a number of just poignant realities, which is I'm asking the question of merchants, who are you answerable to? Are you answerable to Wall Street? Are you answerable to your shareholders? Or are you answerable to your customers? And aren't there things in the context of the food store that we need to re-, revisit? If you have a cereal that has a certain percentage of sugar in it? Does it deserve to be on the cereal aisle or should it be on the on the candy aisle? Why is milk in the back left hand corner farthest away from the front door? Why has, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 13:28
Old school, right (crossover talk), for that old school, new school just to get people to go through the store to get the necessities. Do you, do you think that still functionally works, though? I mean, you talk about biology and habit and so many of us are, (crossover talk), -
Paco Underhill 13:42
Part of it is the poignancy of time. And in our meeting of our analog and digital worlds, Michael, once we hit a certain age, let's call it 40, 80% of our weekly purchases are the same thing. Why do I have to go, you know, walk the store the same way if I've already made my purchase decision. Shouldn't packaging be reflective of the fact that if it isn't meant to scream at me from the shelf? Can't I get it in a better form? I'm one of the things I was talking to a British package designer who was going, I couldn't make boxes out of birdseed, not cardboard, so that when you finished it rather than quote unquote recycling, you could repurpose it and feed it to the sparrows.
Michael LeBlanc 14:35
I think the frozen I think the frozen category got a bump up with COVID ironically right because people turn their minds to different aisles in the store and then maybe that's going to be a net positive outcome. Do you think that you think this is gonna last you think that momentum is there that's just going to carry us through? And that's I guess what your book is about is, (crossover talk), -
Paco Underhill 14:53
yeah, (inaudible), Michael we need to change, both personally and, and our and our food (inaudible) part there is a chapter in the book talking to Walmart's plant geneticists, which is just a fascinating topic of people engineering, organic produce.
Michael LeBlanc 15:21
Fascinating and, and you've got, you know, you've got entire countries like Singapore with lab grown meat, right? They want to be food they want to be food independent. The only way for some countries to do that is to grow it in the lab.
Paco Underhill 15:32
Well, it's also I, you know, Singapore has super supermarkets that, for all practical purposes, our vending machines,
Michael LeBlanc 15:41
yeah, (inaudible) just walk out technology and that's right. I mean, so much is going on. Listen, we can talk about this for a long time. I think people are going to be very excited to hear what you have to say. And I'm going to get you back on the mic after STORE and we'll chat about a bunch of other stuff. Maybe get you on The Food Professor podcast, too. So, listen, Paco, thanks so much for joining me looking forward again to hearing you at, at STORE and this kind of a brief bonus episode. But lots to say, pretty provocative, great stuff get us thinking. So, looking forward to what you have to say on June 1.
Paco Underhill 16:17
Sounds great, Michael, thank you for having me on your show.
Michael LeBlanc 16:21
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure and click and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week. And check out my other retail industry media properties, the Remarkable Retail podcast, Conversations with CommerceNext podcast and The Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 16:40
Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my all new, YouTube barbecue show Last Request Barbecue with new episodes each and every week.
I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company and Maven Media. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
Have a safe week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
retail, store, people, world, Michael, podcast, evolution, book, merchants, Paco, part, food, walk, talking, episode, mic, Canada, understand, meeting, media