On this special episode I am thrilled to be sharing a full episode from my all new Conversations with CommerceNext podcast featuring Tapestry, the global house of brands that unites renowned labels such as Coach, Kate Spade and Stuart Weitzman, attributes its digital transformation success to its culture and its craft.Along with my #podcast partner Veronika Sonsev we were thrilled to sit down with the company’s Chief Digital Officer, Noam Paransky to talk about how he's leading Tapestry's digital transformation and innovation, which has yielded 90%+ growth in digital compared to the prior year.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
On this special episode I am thrilled to be sharing a full episode from my all new Conversations with CommerceNext podcast featuring Tapestry, the global house of brands that unites renowned labels such as Coach, Kate Spade and Stuart Weitzman, attributes its digital transformation success to its culture and its craft.
Along with my #podcast partner Veronika Sonsev we were thrilled to sit down with the company’s Chief Digital Officer, Noam Paransky to talk about how he's leading Tapestry's digital transformation and innovation, which has yielded 90%+ growth in digital compared to the prior year.
After being the Senior Vice President at Gap Inc., Noam now leads Tapestry’s digital innovation agenda and ensures the company delivers an inspiring omnichannel experience through all of its digital touchpoints.
I launched the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast with my U.S. based partners to meet the top practitioners and thought leaders in the DTC & eCommerce marketing space, and explore both their tradecraft and share the learnings from their career journeys.
Let’s listen in
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Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform where we’ll be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode. CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in-person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest ecommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at CommerceNext.com
Veronika Sonsev
Veronika Sonsev is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. She also leads the retail practice for Chameleon Collective and is a contributor for Forbes on how to grow retail and ecommerce in the age of Amazon. Having spent the last 10+ years working with some of the largest retailers and direct-to-consumer brands, Veronika has intimate knowledge of the challenges facing retail and ecommerce today. She is also an advocate for women in business and founded the global non-profit mBolden, which is now part of SheRunsit.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael Leblanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Today I'm thrilled to be sharing a full episode from my all new Conversations with CommerceNext podcast featuring Tapestry, the global house of brands that unites renowned labels such as Coach, Kate Spade, and Stuart Weitzman attributing its digital transformation success to its culture and its craft.
Along with my podcast partner Veronika Sonsev, we were thrilled to sit down with the company's Chief Digital Officer, Noam Paransky, to talk about how he's been leading Tapestry’s digital transformation and innovation, which has yielded 90% plus growth in digital compared to the prior year.
After being the Senior Vice President of The Gap, Inc. Noam now leads Tapestry’s digital innovation agenda, and ensures the company delivers an inspiring omni channel experience through all of its digital touch points.
I launched the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast with my US based partners to meet the top practitioners and thought leaders in the DTC and eCommerce marketing space, and explore both their tradecraft and share the learnings from their career journeys.
Let's listen to now as Veronica kicks us off.
Veronika Sonsev 01:08
Welcome to Conversations with CommerceNext Noam, you have been leading a really exciting digital transformation at tapestry, which has yielded some impressive results. I'm so thrilled you could join us today.
Noam Paransky 01:20
Thanks for having me.
Veronika Sonsev 01:21
I am joined here with the producer and co-host of Conversations with CommerceNext, Michael Leblanc.
Michael LeBlanc 01:27
Hi Noam, nice to meet you. Where where are we finding you today?
Noam Paransky 01:31
I am in Connecticut today. I'm usually in my below ground lair, but I'm in my above ground lair today [inaudible].
Michael LeBlanc 01:39
Well, thanks, thanks for coming out for us.
Veronika Sonsev 01:41
Well, Noam, you have been immersed in digital retail for the majority of your career. Originally as a consultant, then you went brand side with Gap Inc., and now you're leading digital at Tapestry. Tell the audience about yourself your background and career and what you do at Tapestry.
Noam Paransky 01:58
So, I'm Noam. I'm a Libra, I have a boy and girl. My wife and I met in college although we we didn't date in college, but have known each other for a very, very long time. A lot of shared history. We've got two dogs and two cats. And people love for whatever reason my cat's names because my kids named the cat, so we have Bat Cat and Miss Fussy Wiggles. Miss Fussy Wiggles tends to be a crowd favorite. A crowd favorite.
So yeah, as mentioned, I'm in Connecticut so we live in we live in Connecticut. And yeah, I've been I've been in retail a long time. I think I'm a self-described retail nerd and proud of it. And you know I digital is newer-ish, right? And in this role of of CDO is newer. So, I don't know if there's a traditional path to get to this role. But I'm I’m told that mine is fairly untraditional so I can take the audience quickly through it.
But I started I studied economics in college, I went to Emory University. Through twists and turns, I ended up doing this general management program with a couple billion dollar privately held maintenance repair and operations distributor and you know, who doesn't dream of working in, you know, MRO supplies and distribution, frankly, but I did this general management program. So, you're in the program for like 6 or 12 months. I think mine was I don’t know 6 or 7 months. And then they give you your first management rotation. So that was in the warehouse, which was coveted internally in the company. And I enjoyed quite a bit. But very quickly, I was I think barely 21 at that point, had a team of 20 or so what I consider to be adults relative to myself at that point. And they had seen you know, many, many versions of me over the years and so very quickly taught me some basic lessons and leadership of people with a lot more experience than I had. So, it was a great learning opportunity.
But after a couple of years in in the much-ballyhooed MRO space.
Then, then entered retail where I’ve, I’ve been for the past 20 20 or so years. Hey it’s not even my dog barking this is this is a first. But I, I took that work that I was doing at the first company around DC management, I was doing some initial stuff and kind of warehouse systems. Enjoying curtailment where I worked for about 11 years. So, there I was really focused on hardcore supply chain consulting for the majority of my time there I was doing distribution center design, warehouse management system implementations, supply chain strategy, process improvement type work. Really heavily into that part of the world. And then towards the end of my time there was starting to work in the more customer facing systems and in some more retail strategy type work. And it was at the end of that 11-year period, then I went over to AlixPartners. And I was there for about 6 years.
And there, I pivoted into much more of a focus on digital. First building on kind of the operational background, but very quickly, working around digital strategy, digital business transformation, then started to do a bunch of work in digital marketing, which then became marketing. And then for kind of the last chapter of my time at AlixPartners, I started to get really heavy, heavy into kind of like, I would call it like interim leadership type gigs.
So, spend time in an interim leadership at Radio Shack, Toys “R” Us. And then, you know, my last client at AlixPartners was Gap Inc., where it was kind of a mix of everything that I was doing at AlixPartners, and had a really good time working with that group. And they kind of just didn't let me leave. So, I, so I stayed. And it made the jump in house at that point. So, at that point, I was living with my family in Florida, we moved out to the West Coast, and spent a couple years enroll with the Gap team. Really proud of the work that we did there helping that kind of reorient the organization, rebuild the platform, and turn around the commercial performance. So, the team was able to grow digital sales by over a billion dollars in those couple of years at Gap after not growing at all the previous couple of years. And at that point, I started talking to the folks at Tapestry and I thought this whole turning around a giant multi brand was, was just too easy.
So, what I needed to do was come the Tapestry and take a roll up of three brands in and work with the team to kind of let's call it a rebuild digital. So, the thesis there was kind of building a digital startup inside of a fortune 500 company. And so that that’s what we've been doing. So, at Tapestry somewhat similar, similar role was doing with Gap Inc. with a family of brands, with my responsibilities fundamentally around helping to lead our teams around digital sales and engagement, as well as the kind of like omni-technologically enabled touch points.
Veronika Sonsev 07:43
I think that that's a very logical career progression. I mean, from management training, to into consulting. The steps were very, were very logical. So, and definitely an interesting background. It sounds like everything kind of build on built on each other. And I want to kind of talk a little bit about what, what you've been doing a Tapestry, because Tapestry’s had a period of rapid growth, particularly in digital. According to the recent financial reporting, digital has grown to 1.6 billion in annual sales. And this is a 90%+ growth compared to the prior year. And you just reported that digital sales as a percentage of revenue is nearly four times pre-pandemic levels. So, talk about how you accomplish this type of acceleration. I can't imagine that that was easy.
Noam Paransky 08:29
Yeah, I mean, this this digital thing might have some, some merit and and staying power. Yeah, I mean, the the numbers sound great, we're very proud of the, you know, the work we've been doing and the results we've been able to communicate externally. But it just, you know, fundamentally starts with, you know, having a vision as a leadership team, right, that we could grow these channels. Yeah, but like the revenue, like everyone will talk about the sales, but it's really about both engagements. And of course, ultimately driving, you know, omni revenue. You know, the early innings, we're less commercially focused, but really more about just okay, let's take stock of the landscape. Let's take a customer centric view, kind of take a clean sheet approach. And you know, just recognize where on an omni basis, you know, where and how we can meet the customer, where she's at, and really leaning into that.
And then from there looking at those opportunities, what those touch points were, in how we thought we could play to our strengths and, and create, you know, a more engaging set of experiences for our customer, then, you know, then it's about building and delivering. So, for, for us about building our digital platform. People always emphasize the tech side of platforms, but you know we've been pretty emphatic that our, our platform is people process and technology. You know, all all in equal and complementary parts. And that's enabled us to develop and scale our go to market activities and our, and our best practices. And, you know, you start to get things going and you and you build that flywheel and the and the results begin to grow because you're, you're giving the customer what she wants when she wants it.
Michael LeBlanc 10:14
You know, Noam, you and I have some parallels in our career. I started in business-to-business marketing with cups, actually, you know, paper, disposable paper, cup business, fascinating business, actually, when you get into it. And then I worked.
Noam Paransky 10:24
It's all about the nesting, it’s all about the nesting of the cups.
Michael LeBlanc 10:27
And hoop strength, it's hoop strength as well, if you want to get into the details. And then with Levi Strauss, so I launched their first eCommerce, so jeans to the Gap and kind of apparel and then with Hudson's Bay, and in Canada, Hudson's Bay had five banners at the time. So, we were trying to manage that portfolio online as well, like, walk that and the last kind of parallel is, you know, Hudson's Bay 1670. This was like 20 years, dragging them kicking and screaming into the digital era. Talk about, about that. So, you're, you know, Veronika talked about the success you’re having great success today, when you're when you're first swung the door at Tapestry and walked in, what was that like? And how did you approach kind of, okay, listen, we're going to take this business, and we're going to move it forward significantly. How did you how did you approach that? And, and, you know, how did you maintain, which is a lot about culture? How did you maintain a cultural to keep the momentum behind the digital transformation you described?
Noam Paransky 11:20
You know day, day one was a was, was interesting, you know, it was it was planned, but as I came in, I had brands and digital IT and kind of like a dotted line structure. And then my straight-line structure would didn't exist was, was undefined, right? Because what, what, what had to be done was thinking about, okay, this platform is people process technology, like, what is the game plan? You know, I've been doing this work for a fair amount of time, and came from another multi brand. But at the end of the day, it was about defining how we wanted to go about it. And, you know, you've got existing organizations and varied strengths across brands, heritage in terms of where they play, where they've invested from a platform perspective. And so, you know, ultimately had the kind of sift through the pieces and parts working with the other leaders in the organization to define, you know, what that strategy was going to be?
Right, and to get the ball rolling, and, you know, a big piece of it is, you know, how do you think about approaching that? What are the first steps? And then, you know, as you start to build the team, and, you know, the first piece is defining, okay, you know, where are you going to put the pieces and parts? So, you know, what is going to be shared? Because as an entity, you know, just like your HBC example, right? You know, we view ourselves as, you know, a platform for brands, so, you know, what, what is the stuff that needs to be shared? What is the stuff that's fundamentally distinct? And how do you build the organization around it. Once you, once you get that clarity around, okay, generally, you know, what are going to be the functions and where they reside. Then you get into building RACI, then you get into defining KPIs. And, you know, those are the basic table stakes, and then building and scaling a team.
And then, and then you get into, you know, how do you build culture, and this is kind of continuous, because, of course, the company already exists. So, there's, there's a bit of culture that you're inheriting both broadly, within the organization, and then in in various brands or functions, there can be quite distinct culture. So, you're taking the pieces of that, and you're also trying to define the culture that you want to have. And when you're creating or expanding a function, and you're trying to create differential outcomes, you're trying to do transformation. You know, it's, it’s somewhat implicit that you're going to be creating some, you know, distinct elements of culture that you're looking to deliver.
So so for us, you know, a big piece of it was talking about from the beginning, customer centricity, data driven. With brands like ours, there's a lot of elements of creativity and emotion. And those are very critical components of how you know brands like ours go to market. But then how do you underpin data and science and test and learn frameworks to start to create winning strategies that you can demonstrate are helping to move things forward and then creating a velocity around it?
Michael LeBlanc 14:42
If you’re enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be right back with our interview with Noam Paransky from Tapestry Right after this important message.
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Noam Paransky 15:39
But that cultural evolution and transformation is kind of ever present. And then, you know, we're trying to we're trying to, we're trying to continue to help the organization to think bigger, unconstrained, customer centric, you know, heavy in customer empathy. And that continues to allow us to, to create a flywheel where we continue to develop new strategies, new experiences. And with the right frameworks it allows us to scientifically continue to, to win in terms of the you know, the outcomes that we set, whether it's you know, more traffic or more customers or more conversion, but allowing people to focus on those goals and enabling them to accomplish those activities.
Michael LeBlanc 16:32
So many questions, because I, you know, I've lived some of these lives, I love when you brought up the RACI part. I mean, you know, you you walk into an organization with leadership already in places you mentioned. Careers already established people working for many years. And, and I loved how you you touched on, listen, these brands exist because they're strong iconic brands in and of themselves. If they start to water down, they lose the distinctiveness in their category of the brands. Is, is RACI, you know, this, this who's responsible, who's accountable? Is that kind of the playbook on a day-to-day basis? Cause I'm sure, I mean, I got into challenges where, you know, as digital, who, who owns promotional elements to the customer, because we don't want to do. And you've got, you've got wholesale, you've got DTC, and then you've got digital. So, there's always, as you said, it's very dynamic, and always evolving. Is that, is that framework you've just outlined, is that the key to kind of moving forward? I'm sure, there's ongoing discussions in a very, you know, strong, strong brand strong wills, lots of talented people to, to harness together in the right direction, as you were saying right.
Noam Paransky 17:27
Yeah, you know, a RACI or some other framework that helps give, you know, a general level of understanding of what the general abilities are.
Michael LeBlanc 17:35
Like a road map, like a road map.
Noam Paransky 17:37
You know, how they're, how they’re expected to engage around activities or functions like. That that's foundational, that's table stakes. That's definitely not the secret sauce, because you can put stuff on paper all day long. Is it is fundamentally about with that foundation, how you get cross functional in in in for us as well, you know, cross brand teams working together.
It's, it's the, the spirit and the intent of the scrum, how those teams are motivated, how empowered they are, that that is the secret sauce. Now you got to have the right strategy and alignment at a leadership level. But it is in doing the work that the organization actually pushes forward. But the RACI, you know, has, has to has to reflect how you want to get the work done, and you want that to evolve as necessary. But you want you want the team's continuing to prioritize what and how they are doing things against clear outcomes and objectives that they're empowered to drive. So, you know, that I think in any organization I've seen, that's the key.
It is easy to say it right in the day in day out is you know, it is far harder to have that, you know, kind of ideal day to day outcome. But that that is the process of transformation, right? So, if the teams have the psychological safety to state their opinions. The remit to evolve in a clear strategy and guardrails that they can work within, they can keep pushing the ball forward. But, but the RACI serves its purpose, especially when you're making larger organizational design decisions. So, that gives people some stakes in the ground, but it's it’s just the beginning of that journey.
Veronika Sonsev 19:30
That must be like a great thing for the team to be able to have so much empowerment and and also, I loved earlier when you said it was like, you know, help them kind of think beyond their limits because so much time when you're in companies, they're always like work within these constraints. And then they wonder like, why the growth is limited where you're just like, let us remove the constraints and if you didn't have them, you know what could be possible, what could we do. Like really get creative. That's that that that has to be a lot of fun.
Noam Paransky 19:57
Yeah, it's, it’s you know it’s very interesting, right? It's um you know, teams want to need guardrails to a to a certain extent, because otherwise things are so expansive and ambiguous, that that, you know, people find it very difficult to understand like, well, what, what space should I occupy? What am I? What am I here to do? But then, you know, those guardrails can, can, can often become barriers. And so, you know, in a in a complex global multi brand organization like ours, it is this constant opportunity to eliminate barriers and empower while giving people and letting them help to design, the guardrails that they do occupy, within which they are, you know, reasonably free of constraint. Or if there is a barrier constraint, that they are able to escalate that and their problem can become my problem or an other leaders to then go solve. You know, very, very, very difficult to do in practice, right. But that I think that is the constant, you know, opportunity that we and other, you know, large organizations have to, you know, continue to evolve. But yeah, it's, it’s those is those barriers that, you know, in legacy companies can often keep them from becoming successful in the digital arena, because it moves, you know, the space moves fast because the customer moves fast. So, I think the more adept you are at eliminating the barriers and creating the clarity around the guardrails, that can allow you to have the velocity to to gain share in the marketplace.
Veronika Sonsev 21:34
Now talking about market share, in your recent earnings, Tapestry CEO, Joanne Crevoiserat said, and I'm quoting her here, just for one second, “we sharpened our focus on the consumer leaned into digital data and became a more agile organization”. You're talking a lot about that, but, you know, what does it mean, in practical terms? How did the organization evolve to kind of meet that need? Or that result?
Noam Paransky 22:00
Yeah, I, you know, I think, you know, we, we talked about some of the super high level, right. But engaging, engaging the customer where she's at, and directly with her, we historically had, you know, kind of more like, religiously defined rules of what we did or didn't do, that was based on kind of, like, our heritage of activities. Versus, you know, really digging in the data and saying, well, where is she? How do we want to engage with her what's, you know, what's effective?
You know, whether it is something about, you know, how we build experiences and test and learn, right? That's, that's all data driven in terms of, okay, where do we, you know, if we look at a journey or a funnel, where do we see the opportunity? What do you know, what is our competitive landscape look like? What is our research with consumers tell us? And then you know, building experiences, and then and then testing and learning against it.
It can be something akin to, you know, how we think about measuring the impact of our marketing investments, you know, moving from, you know, kind of legacy ways of looking at it, like last click demand to, you know, developing, you know, a clearer view of for every dollar marketing that we put in how much profit does it generate and in where? So, you know, leveraging econometric and multi touch attribution frameworks to help guide those decisions. But, you know, wherever we are, you know, touching and wherever working this transformation, it is fundamentally about developing a fact base, right, those guardrails of, you know, where do we want to play? And what do we want to accomplish from a from a goal and objective perspective?
And then, how are we integrating data into that process, and I think, for an organization like ours, it is it is injecting that science and that data, to then couple with that you know kind of art piece that our brands and our teams have been so, you know, adept with over the years. So, kind of, you know, building a strength to complement a preexisting strength is really, I think, how it you know, how it comes into practice.
Because at the end of the day, you know, especially when certain consumer engagement campaigns, creative feelings that you're trying to create, with the consumer. You know, there is kind of, you know, that that magical piece. Teams have hypotheses and, you know, kind of a view of, okay, this is how we think we can bring it to life. And then how do we use data to support those decisions and corroborate that yes, we're on the right path. And this is what we're going to do and this is the best way to invest in the storyline or traffic the storyline and to help drive the outcomes forward.
Veronika Sonsev 24:46
It sounds like almost like a democratization of data, just making it more readily available to everyone and and getting them in the practice of referencing that as part of their decision making and validation of their assumptions.
Noam Paransky 24:58
Yeah, I I, you know, that's, that's, that's definitely accurate. I think, you know, it goes back to a little bit of the guardrail piece. But it's, it's yes democratizing data, but also helping the teams to align on how to read and interpret the data. Not to the exclusion of creativity around, you know, doing analysis, but just making sure that it's the same sheet of music of, yes, our goals are this, this is the way to look at the data or the cycle. These are not the ways that we prescribe looking at the data, because sometimes, you know, legacy metrics or legacy ways of, of doing analysis, I think can lead people down the wrong path. So, I think it's aligning on that. And then yes, empowering the teams with the data at their fingertips to assess what they're doing, to take action, to advocate for ideas and to collaborate around the data. And again, mixing that you know logic with the magic that the, you know, our brands and our creative teams are able to bring to the table.
Veronika Sonsev 25:57
Yeah, and, and I guess just kind of borrowing from that point for a second that, you know. The business, obviously, we've talked about it, it's been around for a long time, you have storied brand heritage. You've now kind of empowered the team with a lot of data and ways of looking at it. How did you work with marketing to evolve their actual programs? I'm assuming you're doing a lot more marketing in like digital channels compared to maybe like print compared to before, but I'm sure it's much deeper than that.
Noam Paransky 26:23
Yeah, I mean, you know, if you think about, you know, go to market around your, your marketing programs, I mean, it can be very expansive. But, again, number one, it's, you know, where are we going to play, and with that being kind of customer led, versus you know historically, historical activity lead. And so, that certainly shifted, you know, one, kind of where we started the play, but also, we and we've been public in saying this, as well, we, we've increased our marketing investment, significantly. You know, it's about being able to invest in the storytelling of the brands profitably.
So, you know, the first piece was just thinking about reshaping, potentially, in the past, the conversation would have been, well, you must choose, it's and or. And a lot of what we talked about is, well, what's the and so how is this building on top of this building on top of this, so that the total pie of what we're looking to do is greater and the outcomes that we can drive are greater. But you know, I think there's still a very important set of messages around the brand and the campaigns and the go to market strategies. But then, you know, we've overlaid a pretty robust full funnel planning process that is very data driven in service to the brand strategies and go to market objectives.
And then, you know, continuing on the customer centric theme, you know, a lot of focus as well around lifecycle. So, you know, we've been public around, you know, all these kinds of, you know, very fantastic numbers around new customers that we bought into the brand. But that's, but that's the first step, then it's about, you know, how do we make lifelong, you know, fans and participants in our brand as as we brought them in, for the first-time transactionally. And so, a lot of focus now continues to go into, okay, how do we lean into that, and have that, you know, lifelong engagement, and storytelling to compliment, you know, the big brand campaigns that of course, continue to exist. So, you know, we're developing a kind of more matrixed and and latticed approach to how we think about the storytelling the engagements, the strategies, and then the outcomes. And just working on that together as we think about our platform. But ultimately, it's all about the customer. And how do we get more engagement? How do we build more brand advocacy, advocacy, more brand love with her? That's the that’s the key.
Michael LeBlanc 29:06
Well, you’ve done an amazing job of taking us into the tradecraft and culture and organization of Tapestry. Let's talk about you for a while. One of the things we like to focus on in our podcast is is the people and their careers. You've had a such an interesting background or career, and is there any part of that journey that you would look back and say, ah, maybe I would have done that differently. Maybe that was a mistake? And any advice that you've got that around that there you could share with the listeners around you know. You've had that journey from B2B through to consulting and then you've kind of found a sweet spot so to speak in an organization helping them move forward. Any anything you would have done differently as you look back?
Noam Paransky 29:45
So so many things but, but at the end of the day, those things that you would learn differently you could also describe as it is as lessons learned. I mean, I guess if I, if I think about some kind of like thematics of what I think informed by the many, many, many, many mistakes that I've made, and continue to make on a on a daily basis. You know, a transformation like ours, or just leadership generally is about people, right? So, no one can do the work themselves. So, you know you got to figure out how to, like, serve and nourish the teams. And you know, different teams do have different needs, you know. Our our teams to some of them are quite new, and I think we're still learning. Like, what, what really motivates them? And that's, of course, at the macro level, and then, you know, individual's very different needs. You know, I, I try to build environments where it's, it's an intense learning [inaudible] to get stuff done, environment. And hopefully, for the people that I'm recruiting, like, that's what they're looking for, because I try to be upfront about it.
Michael LeBlanc 30:52
That’s the intrinsic, the intrinsic reward, basically, versus the extrinsic reward is, is that learning that deep learning and intense learning experience.
Noam Paransky 31:00
The, the deep learning and then being able to do stuff. Because you know, a lot of people are in environments where the amount they can do is quite limited. And so, my hope, with kind of trying to do, you know, velocity around activities that they can do quite a bit. But but there is that balance, right, that people are looking for. Like, hey, not, not this much, I didn't, I wasn't signing up for this much. I was signing up for more of something in between, right. So, I mean, I'm trying to trying to furnish that for them.
And then, you know, through that being a talent magnet for, like, those kinds of people, because that's the kind of culture and output that we're trying to create. But, you know, being able to tell that story, you know, interview for that and match people up, that's, that's kind of like the secret sauce, right? So, you know, the lesson learned over time is just like, trying to be really clear about that, because for X percent of the population, that's exactly what they're looking for. And for Y percent, it's, it's, you know, by definition, not.
I think the other thing that I've seen over the years, you know, I hear that some people in organizations like aren't so great with their partners. For me, the partners are part of the organization, you may not have as much direct influence and control. But then again, I've, I've got a lot of matrix relationships and teams, I have to lead through a fair amount of influence. And the partners are key, because they have huge resources. And, you know, many of them are very well funded. And they can move really quickly. And the partners, at least that I tend to gravitate towards, generally have a great playbook, so they they know how to succeed and in activity or function X.
Michael LeBlanc 32:47
And they bring a broad landscape, outside of your organization right because they’re talking to a bunch of other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Noam Paransky 32:52
Yeah, yeah. They’re working with a bunch of other, they’re working with a bunch of other people, so they know what's going on. And so, I think, you know, really being a great partner, bending over backwards with partners is, is key. And then, you know, maybe, you know, the last thing that I've learned or seed, or I've seen, or that I think has served me well over the years, is this idea of, I guess, I would call it like, fact-based resilience. And I think I think I really learned this quite a bit at AlixPartners. But it's about it's about doing the right analysis so, you can set a stretch goal that is rooted in fact, and can be achieved, but then you must commit. Like, you will, you will get that result, no matter what. I've learned more often than not it, you can achieve it. Now, I mean, everyone's got to develop their, their competence, in in doing that underlying analysis to set that target. But I've seen, you know, teams able to consistently deliver, they don't always believe it at first. But they can.
Michael LeBlanc 33:59
Right. It's a windy path some, I'm sure some it's a windy path, right it's not always the linear [inaudible].
Noam Paransky 34:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some comes easy. Yeah, some of it comes easy, and some of that's really hard. But, you know, I think if you can help teams understand and start to build that confidence that I can set a goal that I would not have months ago, years ago believed was possible. But I can you know, lead this team or that team, you know, someone in your organization believes that they can and will deliver that outcome. More often than not, they can. And, and I think that's super powerful for teams and in organizations. And I think some of the higher performing organizations like that's, that's core of their DNA, but in a lot of legacy companies that that kind of thinking is is not well enrolled.
Michael LeBlanc 34:49
Yeah, you gotta shake off the rust sometimes right and it is possible. It can be done. All informed by data. Alright, speaking of informed by data, that's looking a little what you do today. Let's cast your mind five years, you and I are having a coffee together five years from today. Talk about not necessarily your role at Tapestry per se, but what does it look like in five years? Is it you know, someone who's just a master, a wizard of algorithms? Or is there still brand and essence and, as you say, a lot about people and process, not just about technology. Imagine five years from today, what, what would we be talking about?
Noam Paransky 35:25
I think, I think everyone's rules are going to evolve. But, you know, in terms of in terms of this, like digital position, I would like to think if those of us who are in this seat currently are successful, the role melts away into something else. It either gets consumed by the other roles, or, you know, you've seen some of these CDO positions, recently evolving, like Chief Customer Officers. And, you know, at the heart of what I'm trying to do is customer centric transformation anyway. I mean, I'll, I'll kind of take any which title. But I think if if the CDO role melts away, that will mean, you know, at least in the context of retail, that would probably indicate that organizations have, you know, more natively embedded digital thinking in activities into their every day. But I think, you know, the, the you know, legacy organizations in particular, are nowhere near that. So that, you know, the CDO in the context of how I do it and how others do it, I think will look like that you also have some CDOs, who are kind of like chief analytics type folks. And I think, I think I think those roles will, will, will definitely continue.
And then in terms of CMOS, I think, you know, you've got this, you know, interesting dichotomy in the skill set around the CMO, where, you know, they have to help with the the kind of like, brand, strategy and direction. The storytelling, the creative output, that's one side of the brain. And then the other side of the brain, you know, the role is becoming ever more analytically intense. So, you know, it'll be interesting to see if, if that role bifurcates a bit, where perhaps the analytical pieces go more into like the, you know, head of analytics. And then the storytelling goes more into like, you know, Chief Creative Officer type positions. You're also seeing the growth of this, like, Chief Brand Officer role. So, I think, I think there's some evolution there, but I think it is this, you know, very difficult dichotomy to manage of being so strong and being able to lead creative organizations and tell the story of a brand's while at the same time, essentially being a data scientist. But it's a lot to ask of one person.
Veronika Sonsev 37:47
But I like kind of that vision that you painted that eventually, you know, digital will fall into the background. All organizations will become kind of, or at least the ones that survive will become digital by default. And then, you know, it's like managing the customer or managing the brand or managing the data. But not so much like a Chief Digital Officer. Well, this has been such an interesting conversation and Noam, you know, every time we connect, they're always asking me if I've got great folks to help continue to scale your organization. So, this is a great opportunity.
Noam Paransky 38:18
Yes, we’re hiring, always hiring.
Veronika Sonsev 38:23
So, you've talked about what you're looking for, but maybe specifics about roles and where people can learn more about opportunities at Tapestry.
Noam Paransky 38:31
We are hiring for everything. Generally, at the more mid-levels and below but you know, every once in a while, that you know, opportunities open up. But we're looking for folks every you know, is we think about digital and as we plan it out you know, there are areas that kind of are, more directly managing like product management and UX and you know, the some of the you know, tactical digital marketing stuff. But you know, we also need great you know, to continue to build our roster in terms of great digital creatives you know.
Our supply chain logistics team is building up because as we grow our our sales channels, we have to expand our distribution network and become ever more sophisticated in how we think about you know, inventory and positioning. So, you know, that, you know, in the brand digital teams around site merchandising and optimization. You know, we've got we've got openings pretty much anywhere. So, if anyone is interested in being in a brand or central digital organization or being you know, it's called digitally adjacent or a or a creative contributor, we are looking for you.
Certainly, folks can do one or two things like, open formal roles are always posted on our Tapestry corporate website. And it's defined whether the role is in corporate or in one of the brands and in the US or or internationally. And folks are also very welcome to reach out to me or any of our other leaders. We love engaging and talking to talent and hearing, you know, what's going on what they're thinking. You know, whether we've got a role currently open or not, we we love getting to know people. So please, you know, don't hesitate to reach out on the talent side, that doesn't mean vendor send me 100 emails, because emails, I see them, I see them. But always happy to talk to emerging talent.
Veronika Sonsev 40:29
And it sounds like a great opportunity just with a lot of autonomy and being able to kind of drive some real meaningful impact and in a in a big brand. Well, awesome. Noam, thank you so much for joining us today and giving us a peek into.
Noam Paransky 40:41
Thanks for having me.
Veronika Sonsev 40:43
Yeah, it's been so great to learn about the digital transformation and your career. I learned a lot from this. So, thank you so much for joining us.
Noam Paransky 40:50
Thank you, take care all.
Michael LeBlanc 40:51
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform where we will be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode. CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in-person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest eCommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at CommerceNext.com. Have a fantastic week everyone.
Michael LeBlanc 41:40
Thanks for tuning into today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure and follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you enjoy podcast so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news and insights.
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I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E LeBlanc & Company Inc. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
brand, digital, tapestry, organization, teams, people, data, role, customer, noam, strategy, building, continue, outcomes, marketing, retail, evolve, culture, activities, lead