The way we decide matters. So says Eric Johnson, director of the Centre for Decision Sciences at Columbia Business School and author of the new book “The Elements of Choice” In a great conversation we delve into the architecture of choice - according to Eric, every time we make a choice, our minds go through an elaborate process most of us never notice. We talk about how all of this applies to our lives, and our lives as retailers, in this exclusive interview.
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
The way we decide matters. So says Eric Johnson, director of the Centre for Decision Sciences at Columbia Business School and author of the new book “The Elements of Choice”
In a great conversation we delve into the architecture of choice - according to Eric, every time we make a choice, our minds go through an elaborate process most of us never notice. We talk about how all of this applies to our lives, and our lives as retailers, in this exclusive interview.
Speaking of great choices, I heard from the team over at the Global Ecommerce Leaders Forum that the ecommerce industry was back out in force last week in Palm Springs at eTailWest. If you’re looking to ramp up your ecommerce sales outside of Canada and the US, definitely put GELF LA ’22 on your schedule for next month. The global DTC and cross-border ecommerce community will be back in West Hollywood on April 21st at the Director’s Guide of America. You can sign up at www.globalecommerceleadersforum.com and if you have a great international story to share, the GELF is always looking for new voices to join them on stage. That’s April 21st for GELF LA 2022
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven’t already, be sure and click subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week, and check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and the Food Professor podcast. Last but not least, if you are into BBQ, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbeque, with new episodes each and every week!
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co! Have a safe week everyone!
About Eric
Eric J. Johnson is the Norman Eig Professor of Business and the director of the Center for Decision Sciences at Columbia Business School. He has been the president of both the Society for Judgment and Decision Making and the Society for Neuroeconomics. He lives in New York City.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated on thought leadership panels worldwide. Michael was recently added to ReThink Retail’s prestigious Top 100 Global Retail Influencers for a second year in 2022.
Michael is also the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts, including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus the Remarkable Retail with author Steve Dennis, Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. Most recently, Michael launched Conversations with CommerceNext, a podcast focussed on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers - all available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music and all major podcast platforms. Michael is also the producer and host of the “Last Request Barbeque” channel on YouTube where he cooks meals to die for and influencer riches.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host, Michael Leblanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
The way we decide matters. So says Eric Johnson, director of the Center for Decision Sciences at Columbia Business School and author of the new book, "The Elements of Choice".
In a great conversation we delve into the architecture of choice - according to Eric, every time we make a choice, our minds go through an elaborate process most of us never notice. We talk about how all of this applies to our lives, and our lives as retailers, in this exclusive interview.
Speaking of great choices, I heard from the team over at the Global Ecommerce Leaders Forum that the ecommerce industry was back out in force forth last week in Palm Springs and eTailWest. If you're looking to ramp up your ecommerce sales outside of Canada and the US, definitely put GELF LA '22 on your schedule for next month. The Global DTC and cross-border ecommerce community will be back in West Hollywood on April 21st at the Director's Guild of America. You can sign up at globalecommerceleadersforum.com and if you have a great international story to share, the GELF is always looking for new voices to join them on the stage. That's April 21st for GLEF LA '22.
Eric, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing this afternoon?
Eric Johnson 01:18
Very well, Michael, thank you so much for having me.
Michael LeBlanc 01:20
Well, thanks so much for joining me, I'm really excited in the overall science so to speak of making choices. It's, it, you know, it's part of my life as a, as a veteran retailer. Before we jump into your book, tell us about yourself. Tell us about your background and what you do for a living.
Eric Johnson 01:36
Sure, I teach at Columbia Business School at Columbia University. Where I teach courses on things like consumer finance and consumer decision making. I also have had the pleasure of working in government. I was at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau here in the United States for a while. I've worked with companies and financial services in automotive, and even a, a occasional retailer or two.
Michael LeBlanc 02:00
Now, how would you describe your, your educational background or your background? Do you describe yourself as a, an economist or social scientists? How do you, how do you think of yourself? Or how do you like to be thought of?
Eric Johnson 02:09
Oh, I'm, I'm really trained as a cognitive psychologist, which is the people who think about how the brain works. And I've always been fascinated by decisions. So that's been a really happy combination of things. And I was lucky enough to study with some [inaudible] I, I, I was in this, they say in the musical Hamilton. I, I was in the room when it happened. So, I've been around working with some of the better people in the field and hopefully making some contributions on my, of my own.
Michael LeBlanc 02:36
You know, when I think of decision I was, I was reflecting on the pop culture around a movie like The Matrix. Which, which is, you know, a lot, what a lot of people think about decisions in the movie, the philosophy of the movie. But you, you've got and have and have chaired and been president of the Center for Decision Sciences at Columbia, different societies that are all about judgment and decision making. Talk about that. What is, what is that, you know, field and, and I had no idea that there is these associations and societies dedicated to such a, an interesting field. Talk about that a bit.
Eric Johnson 03:09
Yeah. So, what's interesting is that I think there's been a realization in the last 30 years, that there's a big difference between how people should make decisions, the way economists think about how people should do decisions. The kinds of things we teach most of our undergraduates. So, when they're take, taking, you know, microeconomics, and how people actually make decisions. That is how they actually get around to deciding what mortgage to buy, or what house to look at, or what sweater to buy. And it's that, it's been a really very interesting set of developments, because it's not that they are randomly different. It's that they're systematically different. They do things that are different than they should, and they do it pretty consistently.
Michael LeBlanc 03:50
You know, I can't have you on the mic at this particular time that we're in today, whether it's the COVID crisis, or the you know, the war in the Ukraine. I've got a background in foreign policy and of all things, nuclear deterrence, and we studied a lot about decision making. And within that, models, game theories, and my conclusion often became the decision makers had, had to reach these conclusions with pretty imperfect information. And the cognitive biases sometimes overcame, what we might call good decisions. Do you, do you do you reflect on that? And think about the intersection of that and, and your field?
Eric Johnson 04:24
Sure, there, there turns out there's a, a great field called behavioral game theory. Which is, again, it's how not how economists think people play games, but actually help people do play games. And I was just thinking about General Petraeus, when we went into Iraq. When we being the US government. He said, remind me how this all ends. He thought about the end game. He thought from backwards thinking forward, forwards and people don't do that. They actually often just do courses of action without contemplating what's going to happen at the very end. So, that sort of failure of what we call backward induction, being able not to see how things will turn out is a big part of behavioral game theory. And I think, you know, I think thinking about what's happening today, I think a lot of folks are saying, oops, what happens if I'm wrong?
Michael LeBlanc 05:16
Yeah, I mean, I it's also I think about it is like the law of unintended consequences, right. I think I'm going to, you know, spread apart allies. But really what I just done is put them back together. And, and do you contemplate that as when you make your decisions that is it a failure to think about unintended consequences? Or is that just a defect in our decision making or overall decision processes?
Eric Johnson 05:38
Well, it's a little bit a little bit more specific maybe, in the sense that it's not just, we're not seeing what might happen, it's that we just don't think about the end game. So, let me give you a little example, it might be too much for radio, but let's give it a try. Imagine I was going to say to you, here's $5, I'm gonna let you split that $5 with someone else. Imagine there's someone else in the studio with you. And what you should do is actually give them what you think they'll accept. And if you both agree, we're happy you both take whatever you've agreed to, and you go home. If you're not you both walk away with nothing.
Michael LeBlanc 06:21
Yeah.
Eric Johnson 06:22
Now that turns out that's called the ultimatum game. And what the ultimatum game does is they see how much do you think you can get away with? In economics, it's pretty clear, it says you shouldn't offer the other person a penny. Because if they have a penny, they're better off than they were before, and you're, of course, you'll be you'll get 4.99. Now, it turns out, of course, that's not how people play the game. They in fact, think a little bit better than that. And they go, oh my gosh, I have to offer at least $2 of the $5 to somebody. And if you do, even then you won't always agree. So, it's that balance of not think economists think of what is the totally rational thing to do. And in behavioral game theory, we think about things like people have beliefs in fairness. And that turns out to be very important.
Michael LeBlanc 07:08
Indeed. Well, let's talk about your book "The Elements of Choice: Why the Way We Decide Matters", now that's available now, it was released last year. It is actually a, a post by Richard Thaler that brought it to my attention. And in fact, you start the book talking about choice architecture, which I believe was a term, if not a study created by Richard Thaler. Talk about choice architecture and, and what and how that's the foundation and how we make decisions.
Eric Johnson 07:32
Yeah, Thaler and Sunstein, or Richard and Cass, and their book "Nudge" coined the term for something that I think most people knew, but it needed a really good name. And they were quite generous in providing that. Essentially, whenever you make a choice, you have to realize someone else has been there before you. They've decided how many options to present to you, what those options are, what's first in the list, what's last in the list. I mean you walk into a store, obviously there's a whole science of, or of how you.
Michael LeBlanc 08:03
Yeah.
Eric Johnson 08:03
Lay out things on shelves and things.
Michael LeBlanc 08:05
Yeah.
Eric Johnson 08:05
But we don't tend to think about that person making those decisions. That someone we can call a choice architect, because they're actually designing the environment where we make a choice. And the interesting thing is, we basically forget about them entirely and start thinking about what we want. Now it turns out, that choice architecture, those decisions that person has made, can really influence our choices in lots of ways.
Michael LeBlanc 08:29
You know, retailers are, I guess, and you talk about retailers in, in shelf design, but in fact, you call it as a rich application of choice architecture. As you said, I mean, everything from the flyers, the marketing, everything, you know, high-low pricing strategies, gamification of retail. What have we learned in, in modern decision science that can help, you know whether it's eye tracking, or, or whether it's the work you do? One to one, that might surprise our listeners, or perhaps surprise you and that the retailer's listening can, can learn something from. They might just be doing it not call it choice architecture, that's just kind of what they do for a living. But talk about that for a minute.
Eric Johnson 09:05
So, part of what it is, it's true that in some sense, I'm rediscovering some of what they know. But there's something else that I think is really important here, which is you need to have some idea of how this works. You, you, you know, it's one thing to say, things at eye level tend to be chosen, but it's really more interesting be able to say, why is it that they tend to be chosen? And one of the reasons is, it turns out that order makes a big difference in choice. In many, many situations, the first thing we'll have a boost. You know, you can take the same five products, but one, first in the list, it will get a, a boost and be chosen more often. And so, it's the, and the reason for that is because people don't search as much as they should, at least according to economics. They basically stop too early in many cases, and that basically. You know, for the person ends up being the decision maker, the chooser ends up being less good in terms of the outcomes they get, but it will have an influence in what is chosen. So, the retailer will be very happy to know that fact.
Michael LeBlanc 10:09
Do you, I, I think you call this the primacy effect, right? The first.
Eric Johnson 10:12
That's correct
Michael LeBlanc 10:13
The first thing.
Eric Johnson 10:13
It's not my term. But, yeah, it's, it's, it's like a common term for that.
Michael LeBlanc 10:17
So, in today's world, and, and its often times we say, you know, today's world is faster, moving faster every day. That may or may not be true, that may be a cognitive bias, but in the world like that, and the paradox, a world where we've got more power to search than we've ever had in our lives. Think of Google and the internet. Do you, do you think it's getting, that primacy effect is getting more amplified? Or is it, is it, do you see it moderating? Where do you, where do you see it going?
Eric Johnson 10:44
So, here's where actually having some idea of why that happens helps. So, I was talking about first being best. And that's true, because people get to terminate, decide when to stop searching on their own. But that's not true of the entire world. I mean, so often, it's what you look at first. So, being first on the list is one thing, being eye grabbing attention is another thing. So, I talked a little bit in the book about Netflix, which I, you know, does tons of studies.
Michael LeBlanc 11:14
Yeah, yeah.
Eric Johnson 11:14
Try and get their landing page optimized. And something you know, it, it seems pretty clear for them is they actually try and make sure something that's very eye catching isn't right in the middle of the list. And because you look at that, first you'll choose it. So, it's not being first in the list. It's being first to be attended to. And you know, to go back to your question, as the world gets more complex, as I go to Amazon and see 26 different kind, kinds of shaving cream.
Michael LeBlanc 11:45
Yeah.
Eric Johnson 11:45
Order or, of attention is going to be very important. It's gonna be more and not less important. And let's take that one step further. Think about your when you're shopping on Amazon on your phone, you know, it's even harder to scroll down. So, order effects will be even stronger there.
Michael LeBlanc 12:00
Yeah, yeah, we, we would call it sometimes the default option. You know, when, when you're offered a choice, and you've made that choice, and you just keep getting offered the same choice. You could opt out of the choice, payment, for example, in subscriptions [inaudible].
Eric Johnson 12:11
That, that's right. Although technically, there's a little bit more to a default option. Which is it's usually something that's pre-selected.
Michael LeBlanc 12:17
Right.
Eric Johnson 12:17
That, I think they have a lot in common, you know, to but if you know the example of, you know, a method of shipping being pre-checked, when you come from.
Michael LeBlanc 12:26
Right.
Eric Johnson 12:26
Go to Amazon, or you know, the default being that you're going to be paid, your credit card will be charged in the future for the streaming service. The fact that it's will happen if you do nothing is the special thing about what I call a default.
Michael LeBlanc 12:39
I want to double click on the retail example for a little bit. So, there is the school of thought, it still is the case that broadly speaking, there are two directions to go and pricing. So, on one pricing, it, it's, let's call a high low, right they. Retailers will price a product and then discount it off, create some excitement is the idea, by saying regular price is $1. Only today, 75 cents. Other retailers would take an everyday low price. In other words, we're going to give you value every day, you don't have to choose, so to speak the day, you show up. And there's a famous example, where JC Penney decided to really make what became a bit of a jarring transition from everyday low price, discounts, coupons to we're just going to give you the best price. Do, do either those have prominence in your work is, or is it really just either or. And it's literally a choice between which way to go.
Eric Johnson 13:30
I, I think, think the lesson that JC Penney you know to drill down on that a little bit learned is that, you know, their customers had learned what prices should be. They were trained to use a, a, a high low pricing scheme, and it takes a long time to change that behavior. And you know, long time turned out to be too long for Ron Johnson, who was CEO.
Michael LeBlanc 13:50
Yeah, yeah.
Eric Johnson 13:51
It's, it’s clear that what happens is people get an expected price, they expect to pay for something. And for some part of the JC Penney market, that was basically the low end of the, of the, the high low price. And then an everyday low price was not a bad deal. But it wasn't what they were used to paying.
Michael LeBlanc 14:10
Do you, do you think the idea of, and I've talked to retailers who think about this, and, and professors, this gamification idea. So much in our life is gamified choices made fun, let's call that, that ways. Is that a part of high-low retail that it, it makes it fun and interesting, exciting? Even though intuitively, you know. You know, listen, I could probably go somewhere else and it goes on deal 25 weeks of the year, so I could just wait but yet you're still excited by the fact you see a sale prices. What's going on there in our mind?
Eric Johnson 14:37
Well, I think most retailers think people think about their products more than they really do. And they think more about pricing than what they really do. I mean, there's certainly a segment that loves to play the that game. But I think the reality is they're going into the store and you know, trying to get out relatively quickly. Yes, people will pay some attention to price but, they're not spend, spending that much time thinking about what's on the shelf, they just want to buy the breakfast cereal and get out of there.
Michael LeBlanc 15:09
I want to talk about something, pull on the thread you talked about. The choice and, and author Barry Schwartz talked about the tyranny of choice. Which gets me back to the decision architecture and retailers who, some of whom offer I want to offer you a vast amount of choice. I want you I want to be known as person to come and get 100 different power drills, and others who take a very curated approach to choice. Is there, as they both right? Is, is there a direction for that, that you could provide?
Eric Johnson 15:38
There's a real trade off there, right. Because when you go, if you know what you want, and you're an expert, and you're capable of evaluating all 100 drills, you're thrilled to have that. At the same time, even that person really wants that [inaudible] that assortment to be organized. So, here are the cordless drills, here are the quarter inch drills, here, here are the lightweight drills. And so, it's a, there, there's really no sense in where just throwing 100 Random options is good. The problem is there's a tradeoff. On one hand, you want to make it easy for people to find the drill they want. And so, you make that a small number of drills. At the same time, people often have different needs That you know, there, there's a contractor and there's the me trying to hang a, a lightweight a poster on the wall. We have very different needs. And if you curate it to just one or two, you're actually making it much harder for the person, because they're not going to find what they want at, at, at in your assortment. So, there are two very different countervailing forces. The need to provide people with a variety and assortment of things. And to keep it simple, so that they don't spend all day searching for, for which drill to buy to use your example.
Michael LeBlanc 16:59
Do you, do you think we can get overwhelmed by too much choices. As, as I sometimes I do. I mean, you refer to it even as you know, 20 different types of shaving cream or whatever you have that, that, that you get so overwhelmed that it basically breaks the decision architecture that you're [inaudible].
Eric Johnson 17:15
Yeah, what happens is people give up and they, they give up in two ways.
Michael LeBlanc 17:18
Right.
Eric Johnson 17:18
They pick something that is not in, in their best interests, just something they wouldn't really want. Or they tend to walk away.
Michael LeBlanc 17:26
Yeah.
Eric Johnson 17:26
So, you know, there's a lot of work done that talks about the curse of choice. But there's a balance, you also want to make sure people get the right option, option. You can get there by carefully thinking about. Actually, one way of doing it is thinking about what does this customer want. So, on the web, I can actually help people by giving them a smaller choice set that's specific to them based on what I know.
Michael LeBlanc 17:53
Or specific to your brand, right? In other words, I'm all about this, and trust me.
Eric Johnson 17:57
Right.
Michael LeBlanc 17:58
I've made the choice for you. Right, I’ve.
Eric Johnson 18:00
Right.
Michael LeBlanc 18:00
This is the one air fryer that you should buy. And thereby, that's your choice. That's your only choice here. That's not an uncommon strategy, right?
Eric Johnson 18:10
No, that's right. But of course, the other thing is, is not everybody wants the same kind of air fryer.
Michael LeBlanc 18:14
I, I was doing an interview with an expert in AI, and we were talking about biases. And, you know, I, I asked her if, at some point AI was, was so biased by the programming that it was just going to help us make bad decisions quicker. Are you, you and your, your colleagues starting to think about the impact of artificial intelligence on decision making, and the, and the training that goes into it, and the, the role it plays in our lives?
Michael LeBlanc 18:14
You know, this is an old, it's a an important and but an old issue. People have talked about using things like regression models, and the regression model reflects the world as it is. And that may have, you know, serious biases. So, if I, you know, try and figure out who's gonna be a good employee using either a regression model or AI [inaudible] discover the existing patterns, I'm not gonna see what can be done.
Michael LeBlanc 19:07
I guess it's a, it's a, you know, there's that quote, at around Henry Ford, if I asked customers what they would have wanted, it's a bit of a faster horse. So, I guess the limitation is the imagination of the person deciding. But is that over, overcome by this decision architecture you've.
Eric Johnson 19:23
Choice architecture can be really useful for, for giving people ideas that they might not have, or they might not come too easily. Let me share one example I, I, I really like from the book, which is doctors tend to prescribe the brand name drugs. And, you know, it turns out those are more expensive. They're about five times more expensive than the generics. And that matters, because if you have cheaper drugs, people are more likely to keep taking the drugs. That is, they're not actually going to try and skip every other day so they can afford the medicine. Now it turns out that a, a friend of mine who has worked in one of the hospitals here in New York, changed the system so that instead of having to type in the law, the name of the drug, you basically. If you typed in the name of the brand name drug, actually, the name of the generic popped up, reminding people of what the generic name was. Now it's interesting because you think doctors would know the names of drugs. But, you know, let's take a classic antihistamine called Allegra, that's easy to remember. They got pens with the name Allegra on it. But it turns out the other drug which is called, ready for this, fexofenadine hydrochloride is not so easy to remember.
Michael LeBlanc 20:39
Doesn't roll off the tongue, doesn't quite roll off the tongue.
Eric Johnson 20:40
Turns out [inaudible] but it’s easy to remember, that's what they prescribed. And so choice architecture can actually improve their decisions and improve people's medical care.
Michael LeBlanc 20:49
Interesting. Now, there's another example you, you talk about in the book, and it's in, in life insurance. Which is a lot about making decisions. And I think it goes something like people are offered, or asked how long they think they're going to live, or when they think they're going to die. Is that framing important? Does that really make such a difference?
Eric Johnson 21:07
Yeah, so much of our life comes from what we retrieve from memory. In that case, when I asked you what your how, what year you'll live to, you start thinking about all the things you've been doing that's good for yourself. And, you know, lots of things like your Aunt Betty who you know, live to she was 102. In the die by frame, you start thinking about Uncle Mortimer who died of a heart attack at 69, the fact you smoked cigarettes for a couple of weeks in college. And people's estimates are almost 10 years different when you use those two frames.
Michael LeBlanc 21:36
Wow, wow. And it's so interesting. You conclude your book on thoughts about, you know, us become better choice architects or, you know, understanding what the choices that are put in front of us. So, two starts, one stop, advice for listeners based on everything you've learned and, and teach on the elements of choice. So, two things, retailers, folks listening should start doing and one thing, maybe they should maybe reconsider doing.
Eric Johnson 22:01
It's almost too, too easy to pitch. You should stop thinking about the display from your perspective, and, and start thinking about it from the customer's perspective. The customer is looking at this choice as a problem to solve. And you should start thinking about how you can help them make that decision more easily. And the big stop is stop ignoring choice architecture, and start paying attention to it. And it turns out people don't pay enough attention to choice architecture. There's a lot of examples in the book where well-meaning firms are making mistakes by presenting options to people in ways that they don't like, and the customer doesn't like.
Michael LeBlanc 22:42
Well, my guest is Eric Johnson, the book is "The Elements of Choice: Why the Way We Decide Matters", available in all the places no doubt that you can find and where you love to shop for books. Where can folks, A, go pick up the book, that seems to be a great choice to me. Where can listeners go to keep in touch? And I kind of are you on social media on LinkedIn, or do you write off in another journals where, where can they go to keep touch on what [inaudible].
Eric Johnson 23:05
So, the website for the book, if you just want to see what's going on there, is it's called theelementsofchoice.com or elementsofchoice.com, also works. And on Twitter, I'm fairly active as, as the Professor Johnson. And so, you could follow me there. And of course, you all know bookstores you can use and support your favorite bookstore.
Michael LeBlanc 23:29
Yeah, right on. All right. Well, I'll put those links in the, in the show notes. Listen, what a great decision to get on the mic with you. It's so interesting. I loved reading the book. I recommend it to everybody. And, and I'm sure it's just the beginning of our understanding of a deeper element of choice. So, thanks again for joining me on, on The Voice of Retail. It was a real treat to listen to you and I wish you much, much continued success.
Eric Johnson 23:53
Oh, thank you so much. And it's been a lot of fun. And goodbye to all your listeners.
Michael LeBlanc 23:58
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure and click and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week. And check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, Conversations with CommerceNext podcast and the Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois.
Last but not least, if you're into BBQ, check out my all-new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbecue, with new episodes each and every week.
Michael LeBlanc 24:28
I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, president of M.E. LeBlanc & Company and Maven Media. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co!
Have a safe week everyone!
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, choice, retailers, book, inaudible, thinking, decision, turns, architecture, retail, decisions, everyday low price, drills, economists, cognitive bias, podcast, decision making, person, columbia business school, game