Has the retail salon industry been forever changed by COVID? More than ever, people take it upon themselves to cut, style, and dye their hair at home. Hair and beauty is one of the industries hit hardest by the pandemic, so how are retailers adapting to these massive shifts in consumer behaviour? In today’s episode, I sit down with serial entrepreneur and industry visionary Ray Civello, CEO at Collective Beauty Brands; we learn about his fascinating path to success, what enabled him to succeed over and over again, and his take on the future of this dynamic sector of the beauty industry.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada
Has the retail salon industry been forever changed by COVID? More than ever, people take it upon themselves to cut, style, and dye their hair at home. Hair and beauty is one of the industries hit hardest by the pandemic, so how are retailers adapting to these massive shifts in consumer behaviour? In today’s episode, I sit down with serial entrepreneur and industry visionary Ray Civello; we learn about his fascinating path to success, what enabled him to succeed over and over again, and his take on the future of this dynamic sector of the beauty industry.
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Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc. And this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada. In today's episode, I sit down with serial entrepreneur and retail salon industry visionary Ray Civello. We learn about his fascinating path to success, what enabled him to succeed over and over again, and his take on the future of this dynamic sector of the beauty industry.
Ray, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast How you doing this afternoon?
Ray Civello
I'm doing great, Michael, thanks for having me.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, you know, I was looking at your background and I knew the name of course. Your, your name is well known in these, in these parts on here in Toronto, and in Canada. But, I had no idea of the, your background that I know a little bit more about now. But, I'd love for you to share that with the listener, your personal professional journey because it's so, it's been dynamic. It's been interesting. You're such an entrepreneur. So, I'd love to just kind of get that essence of what, of where you headed, what drove you. And then let's start with your, you know, let's go back a bit, let's talk about your, your personal professional journey and where it got you to today.
Ray Civello
Well, yeah, I, it's a, it's a great journey, I suppose everyone, you know, it's not really succinctly planned, I wouldn't say. But, I certainly wake up every day and I'm always grateful because it's never ever boring. It's never the same. It's never predictable. I, I probably characterize myself as a creative entrepreneur. And, I also am very proud to wear the title of hairstylist, or hairdresser if you like. And, that's, that's, there's certainly in my, my passport, if you will to enter a whole bunch of different worlds. Beginning with you know, just learning how to cut hair and style hair very well. Well, enough to end up in Europe and Paris and working on collections, and magazines, and television commercials, and music videos.
So, I had, I had a career moving from a hair salon called the Rainbow Room, back early 80s. Which in (inaudible) was a revolutionary salon really. And from there, I made my way to Paris. And while I was in Paris, doing a freelance job, which meant you work three days and then probably had six days where you didn't work. And, and sitting in the tours having my, my second cafe au lait, and some kind of jambon fromage sandwich of some sort, I realized that, that freelance was not at all what I was made for.
And, I like to work. I like to be active. And, I realized that I could do something different. I was being represented by an agency in Paris, and realized that there had never been an agency back in Canada. So, I got back to Canada and opened up the first agency that represented freelance hair, makeup, wardrobe, props, photographer. So, we were a one stop production house.
And from there, of course, all kinds of doors opened up and was managing talent and doing, giving a lot of creative input on photoshoots, and what have you. In 1988, there was a great recession. The advertising dollars disappeared pretty quickly. I had 40 people that were working pretty steady, and we reduced to about 10.
And, that led to really, I had to take a pause, if you will. And, I ended up going to the mountains and doing some introspective work and meditation work. And, then I got back in Toronto, and was out jogging one morning and came across a beautiful building on Yonge Street and thought, 'Wow, that could be a salon'.
And, I really hadn't worked in a hair salon for a good four years, five years. So, I didn't have a clientele to speak of or anything like that. But, I saw a vision that was a little different than anything I'd seen before. And, hairdressing at the time wasn't what I would have characterized as professional. And the service level was more self-indulgent than it was something that was provided for our clients. And, I thought that we could do that and we could sell products at the same time because I love stores. I love shopping. I love retail. And, I thought wouldn't it be great if we did a retail store in the salon together.
And, so I, I sat there and counted cars with my then partner, founding partner, Raffaela, and we called the agent up and before end of day, we signed a lease to open a hair salon on Yonge Street, in the Rosedale neighborhood. And, that's still there, 32 years later. And, that was the beginning of my journey as your sort of salon owner, retail and salon services.
And, then we expanded into that into the spa business, well ahead of any curve. I think we were the first to ever combine hair and spa services in one facility and then have a complete offering of retail products under one roof. So, that was a real innovation and, and obviously, it worked very well. We were very, very successful, still very successful in spite of everything else that's still happening. It's still, you know, a beautiful place, the salon itself.
Interestingly enough, it was, was designed uniquely by group of friends of mine artists, rather than interior designer. So, we created something very unique for people to come to. And then we provided a service level that had never really been seen. A high touch you were doing neck and shoulder massages. Wonderful products and bringing in a real wellness component to the hair experience, as well as the spa experience.
Michael LeBlanc
It's really you know, as I listened to you talk about your, your journey, which you've kind of compressed, so to speak nicely in, in time, what, the central theme start to come out to me anyway, I mean, you've you've clearly had a talent, or so to speak a trade, you know that, in terms of you started there, but the leap to being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. Like, were you always entrepreneurially or innovation oriented? Is that what made you a great hairdresser to begin with? But, how did you make that leap? I mean, I'm kind of curious of unpacking, you know that, how you made your choices, or what are the kind of central themes that drove you in the direction you went? I mean, you're very successful in a business that is notorious for, for a lot of change, a lot of turnover, and, and it's a, it's a difficult business to innovate in.
Ray Civello
Michael, I yes, I would say yes. So, as far back as I can remember, at least, you know, being a young boy, I had at one time, I think I had six paper routes going at the same time. And, I was, you know, I developed them, and then I would sell them off and go to another neighborhood and do it all over again. so,
Michael LeBlanc
Okay, that there, there we go.
Ray Civello
My parents are immigrants from, from the beautiful island of Sicily. And I, you know, I, my parents were entrepreneurs. They had a bakery. And then we had a pizzeria. And I worked in, in those environments. Watch my dad and mom each and every day as, you know, model mentors, if you will.
Michael LeBlanc
And strong work ethic. I mean, clearly, there's a work ethic that comes along with all that and learning at the table literally. And figuratively, right.
Ray Civello
I'm trying to figure out how some folks today think that hard work isn't an ingredient to success. I mean, I want them to teach me because I don't know it any other way. So, yeah, so you know, I grew up I mean, I had a pop machine in the pizzeria and, and a pinball machine that I own. So, I've always been involved in some form of entrepreneurship. And, so it wasn't, it's, it's quite natural. I don't, I don't think about being an entrepreneur in that sense. It's just I suppose it's the way you're wired. And, I do think entrepreneurs are wired a little differently.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, it is really the the kind of the oxygen you breathe, right. I mean, I, as you say, I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs. And, really it is that, that sense of not standing still, that sense of, it sounds like you've done that a couple of times, you've seen something that wasn't available in your market, so to speak, all the way back to your agency, but then you pulled things together that people hadn't pulled together. This intersection of services and commerce, for example, you were pretty early on that, right?
Ray Civello
Yeah, I think that's what entrepreneurs do best is they, they, they pay attention. And they have great sense of focus. And, they are able to see things that others aren't and connect different things in ways that perhaps someone else hasn't quite thought about yet. And, and then when you can present that and provide that as an experience for other people to have, that becomes enjoyable, that enhances lives, then, you know, you've done a good thing. And, typically, people will pay you for that. And, then that's the challenging part, the fun part. And I find,
Michael LeBlanc
There's a great story, I worked at one time for Rogers in the, in The Shopping Channel on the retail side. And there is a great story about Ted Rogers, who I met a couple of times, how, you know, he saw people walking around with this box attached to their ear, a mobile phone. He came back all excited and the board didn't believe him. They didn't think, and even his wife voted against him. So, he started his own, his own mobile company. It's, it's hard to imagine today. It must be the case not just resilience, but also that kind of sheer mindedness that you're on the right path. Does that come intuitively to you? Or, or how do you assess if you're going down the right path when you pull all these things together?
Ray Civello
Well, I believe that you know, it formulates first. I think the concept formulates. You know, you're, you're always paying attention. You're always looking. Every entrepreneur has different resources that they use. I think they, and they move those resources around. They're always trying to tap into a new channel of information somewhere to feed them. And, and I think that when it comes together, you know it, you know, you know, it has a chance.
And then the testing process, you know, where you try it out on different individuals that you trust. And once you know you have something that you know you believe in, you'll get a lot of naysayers. I mean, that's just normal.
And you'll get and quite frankly, I mean, every entrepreneur has doubts as well. I mean, while they're in the process of creating a concept, a product or a service, there's going to be doubt. And, it's normal to experience that. But, typically they do push forward. And they, you know, they get to the other side of that. And, I think when everyone starts to provide them with that reflection of 'Yes, you you've created something we want'. That's when you know, they, they're satisfied. But then they start all over again, typically, most entrepreneurs.
I saw Ted Rogers speak once, and I remember him saying something that he was 45. And he had enough money, and I'm going to do it again. And, you know, roll the dice and try again. And, he certainly didn't need to, but he actually did need to, because that's, that's who he was.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, and, and I can attest to his work ethic, I remember being in a meeting with him on the periphery. But he said, you know, 'It's Friday, and we don't get to see each other, it's the weekend' and he was genuine about it. He's like, 'I'm gonna miss you guys over the weekend'. He was a seven day a week guy. He was always, he was always like, genuinely, 'What do you mean? Not everybody wants to be in the office over the weekend?' Like, I want to work seven days a week.
Let me, let's transition the conversation a little bit and pick up on current events. So, we're in this COVID era. I often talk about it, we often talk about in both retail and other areas, this great acceleration. In other words, you know, the COVID era has accelerated some things, eCommerce is one of the things most often pointed to. In other words, there were trends that existed pre COVID, that, that the circumstances around COVID have accelerated. And, then there's new trends that have just been created. And, what's your perspective, from your side of the business and your background, you know, what was happening already, that you saw coming that's just been advanced? If anything, and what's new? What, what do you think's gonna come out of all this?
Ray Civello
Well, I think the most obvious, of course, is the engagement of the consumer to digital transactions. I mean, that, that's, that was happening, and it was happening quickly. And, and, and, you know, the behaviors were in place for it to continue to be so. I, and you're correct, I use that word accelerator all the time. Because, I think today, that world has changed completely. And, I'm not really sure that there will ever will be a bricks and mortar offering that will be as compelling enough to bring people back into the environments that, at least in the volumes that we've seen in the past, I don't believe that will happen again.
In the in the beauty industry, which is a service, and you can't get your haircut or color, at least not yet, you won't be able to get a computer to do it. I'm sure that in the future, that will happen as well. But at the moment, you know, you're not able to do that. And, what's, the biggest trends that have taken place in our industry, I think it's actually it's always been a rather fragmented industry. It's made up of wonderful, independent entrepreneurs, the entrepreneurial spirit runs really rich in the hairdressing industry.
Michael LeBlanc
Very much. So yeah, yeah very much.
Clearly a different experience. Now, I mean, one of the things you mentioned, you know, hair coloring at home, and I have to think back to some of the stats I was looking at in the, in the early days of the crisis where you'd look at these unusual items that had a lot of growth, kind of waving through. You know, bread makers was one of the things that, toilet paper actually is one of the things that first stood out. And then there's bread makers. But then, my friends in department stores are saying we've never sold so much hair coloring before. Do you think that the advent of that is temporary? Or do you think that people are going 'Hey, I can do this myself', where do you, where do you sit on this? I mean, there's a lot of change going on the industry. You talk about digital and digital enablement. Do you think there's, there's both risk and opportunity there in your side of the business?
Ray Civello
And, there has been, I think there's been a real interesting development that would probably be the birth of the independent hairdressers, probably been the biggest change that's happened in industry. That would be people that have left the salon environment to go and work on their own. Whether that's renting a suite, there are now facilities that are called suites, salon suites, they're quite, quite prevalent in the in the US, especially on the west coast of the US, but pretty much throughout the US and, and now making its way I think that trend is becoming a stronger trend in Canada as well. And share rental salon. So, a salon owner converts their commission based salon where they were paying a commission to their, their hairdressers, they, they now would rent a chair. To the consumer, to the, to the client, they might not see that big of a difference in that environment, as they would obviously going to visit someone in a suite, which would be just that individual and, and the client.
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think everybody has to embrace digital in an innovative way. I think salon, independent salons have, you know, they were always resistant. And now, I think they understand that, you know, if they don't apply their thinking at least to all channels of operation, then I think they will be left behind. And, and we know that 30% of the industry will disappear through COVID. If they haven't already closed, they will be closing. So, we weren't able to operate it at full capacity even when we were open. But many, many salons again, are closed down for a second time and in some, in some cases, even the third time.
Michael LeBlanc
We'll be right back.
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Ray Civello
So, it will be difficult to get back to the levels of profitability. So, profitability becomes a big issue of courses, in the salon. And hair color is the biggest profit center, next to retail. Retail provides the biggest margin.
But that's gone away, for argument's sake, that's really gone away for the most part. And, and I think that hair color was very interesting, was one of the first items that showed up in discussions amongst my peers was, 'Do we, do we take the risk of creating home kits and sell them to our clients with instructions, or do we not? We're professionals, this is, are we crossing the line?' And, so the industry was actually divided on the issue. My point to it was, you know, one I want to make every every effort to stay in touch with my clients. And, I also want to be able to help them in, in COVID was brutal, and it is brutal.
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Ray Civello
That said, companies like Madison Reed, for example, who you know, come from outside the industry, was able to create an algorithm, if you will, to be able to prescribe great hair color and had a great product. And, I believe they were somewhere around 16 million pre COVID. They tripled those sales during COVID. Walmart said the two items they couldn't keep in stock were hair color, and clippers because people were cutting their own hair at home. And,
Michael LeBlanc
You know, I think there's a big role. And I want to see if you, if you've been thinking along the same lines of curation in the salons. You're professionals, you do what you do, is there a role where you kind of introduce new products alongside the service, and then the rest is kind of done by replenishment. So, I guess what I'm talking about is a hybrid. Because that's how I, you know, let, my last visit to a barber shop, I'm looking for a little pomade, or a little product for my hair. And I said 'What do you guys use? What do you recommend?' And then, I go buy it on my own directly from them online. Is that hybrid thing viable for you and the products and how you're thinking about?
Ray Civello
Not, not only viable, I think it's necessary. I don't know how they survive, or how, you know, if the manufacturers are the only ones selling online. Then the salon is doing a great job at introducing someone to the product, but it's much more convenient to buy it online and have it you know, whether it's a prescription or whether it's just,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure, sure.
Ray Civello
It's just easy. I, you know, I encourage salons to get involved in use every channel and to continue to provide service and retail to, to their clients.
I just wanted to touch back on that, on the hair at home, because I didn't really answer and I feel there's an important answer there. But yes, the trend will, I do believe it will continue to grow, I think there's a difference. I believe that you can get your roots, if you will, the new growth of your hair covered effectively, efficiently with a professional hair color that's been recommended by salon. I would be cautious about just going to a drugstore and just pulling a box off the shelf and doing it. It's not the same, and not the same quality.
But, I think this is an opportunity also where we're talking about retail and services blending together. Where I think the salons could embrace becoming a retailer and also having an online service for people to consult with them and buy a pack that's been specially designed to be able to service those clients at home. Because hair color is actually very complex. It's not, it's not really simple. It's very difficult actually. And if you if you prefer.
Michael LeBlanc
Not everybody, not everybody's hair starts the same way, right. It's like everything else, it, you know, there's, there's a quality spectrum. You can color your hair at home, but doesn't mean you're going to get the same quality, experience of a professional looking at what the starting color and tones and textures are right. I mean, that's, that's probably what, what guides the professionals into, into how and what they do, right.
Ray Civello
That's right and also the technique and there's also the techniques and how they do. So, what a lot of professionals would do is something much more complex a technique that you could never do at home. But, you could maybe in between just where the new growth, the gray might be coming in, you could touch that up in between, but then come back and get back with your hair. So, I do think that there's a way to blend the two things together as a hair salon going forward, I think it's important opportunity.
Michael LeBlanc
And you know, I've been looking at different industries, retail, food service, restaurants, and many are thinking to use COVID, and the COVID era, or the COVID crisis, as that time to sit back and say, 'you know, the industry had evolved, or our format have evolved, we should leave in the post COVID world' Sounds like we're going to be a post COVID world by the end of 2021. At least, 'We should leave some things behind, we should leave some baggage behind' and what is that in, in your industry? Is the reticence to merge commerce and product with service is that what should be left behind? And anything else you can think of?
Ray Civello
Well, there's been so many new studios and salons that don't retail and have no interest in any retail at all, they, they've resigned themselves to, you know, taking on creative space somewhere and not really necessarily looking at retail in any ways an opportunities. So, I don't know, I don't know how that goes, I don't know if that that's viable. I don't think there's an expansion to that. I think that, that, you know, that stays where it is. I don't know, if you get new clients, also from that environment either. And, of course, we know we lose 10 to 15% of clients every year in a what we might call a normal year. So, that you do always have to engage in, in getting more clients.
But I think that when we come back, and when we do get back to, to the, to a place where you know, capacity, and we start to measure, you know, services and, you know, productivity, I guess, back to levels that we might have been pre COVID. I mean, that's a year and a half to two years out for sure. I do think that there, there, the high touch will be so much more appreciated. I mean, you know, this COVID has produced a lot of abuse in homes and a lot of despair. And, and so I think wellness, and high touch experiences, you know, people that are in our profession who do this every day, with kindness and craft combined, you know, skills and kindness in their art are really valued. Much more so than everyone really understands. But it's, it's a, it's something I think that we'll see more of.
And I think we might leave behind are those that don't do it that way. I think mediocrity in both mediocre efforts, I don't think there's gonna be a lot of room for mediocre, I think people have had time to reflect, and people know what they want more so and I think that people become less tolerant of mediocrity. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, I've been having the same thoughts in the restaurant sector, right. I mean, we're talking about a bunch of things, but that, you know, we're, a lot of us are cooking at home way more, and we kind of have an appreciation for, on the one hand, how hard it is, how much work it takes. But, on the other hand, 'Hey, I can do a lot of that stuff, it better be better, good. By the time I go out', it's a very familiar kind of narrative.
You know, one of the reasons we came together, you've launched a new product. So, tell me, tell me about this color space. So, it sounds like you're, you're innovating again. And then the last question I'll talk about is tips for entrepreneurs. But, let's talk about this color space. So you, you're getting into product, I think you've already been in product, but tell me a little bit about it.
Ray Civello
Well, the world didn't need another hair color company, that's for sure. So, you know, entering into the into the space was, was really important, I think to ask ourselves a lot of good questions about what are the problems with hair color? Professionally, what are they, what are the challenges that that we wanted to address? And, we went about it very, I think very methodically, and we've come up with a product that has a lot of innovation right into the science of it.
So, we really, we have a molecular structure, for example, that's very unique. It comes from, you know, pharmaceutical background and cosmetics background versus hair color background. So, that, that perspective, was able to go in and change the way that the molecules are built. So, smaller molecule basically means easier penetration and longer lasting, so less fading, and much better shine on the quality of the hair. So, that's just a small innovation. Healthier, safer, we have an ammonia free hair color line that, and we're not the first to do ammonia free but ammonia free has a reputation, that it has a weaker performance, right.
Michael LeBlanc
A trade off, the reputation, I agree, it's like there's a trade-off to be had.
Ray Civello
And, so we challenged ourselves to create something that, that performed as well as any ammonia based hair color would. And we've done it, so we're, we're excited about that. We have a couple of really beautiful things that, that no one's signed up yet. Like a machine that blends the color and heats the color to body temperature. Because color doesn't begin to process until it hits your scalp. It has to warm up to the scalp temperature. And it has to be mixed really well for the coupling to occur for the chemicals to really activate. So, when those chemicals don't activate because somebody isn't stirred up or mix it up properly, those chemicals are causes that irritation on the scalp, and the thermal shock that you get because it's cold and your scalp has to heat it up. So, we have a machine that heats up to a creamy rich texture, which is easier for the professional to use. There's also a lid on it. So there's no, there's not a dispersion, if you're using ammonia, it doesn't disperse ammonia into the air. And, then you're using less product as well. So, it's a more profitable application, per application cost savings. And, at the same time, it's not the, the client is not experiencing sensitivity or irritation on the scalp.
So, these are some of the things that we did. And, we created a business model, virtual business model, which no one has yet done in our industry. So, it's a B2B business model, providing profitability at a level that the hair salons have never seen before.
Michael LeBlanc
So, for the, for the listeners at home, it's obviously not an at home kit, sounds quite suitably complex and professional. Where, where would they learn more about where they can find this product? Or where, or who carries it? Or how can they learn a bit more?
Ray Civello
Our website is, is colorspacehair.com. And we officially will be launching on January the 11th, 2021.Just to give you an idea, in three weeks, we've had 500 salons enquire. We've been able to do 100 presentations thus far.
Michael LeBlanc
Oh, wow.
Ray Civello
And we've had of the 100 we've had 92 conversions, if you will. Salons that are, that are absolutely really excited to take the product on. So, it's going very well so far.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, congratulations. Last question for you, leave us with, you know, the lifetime of entrepreneurial pursuits, you know, you just launched another successful pursuit with, with color space, give me one or two tips for the listeners for 2021. What, what should they do? Two starts and one stop. They should start doing these two things, if they're not already, and stop,
Ray Civello
Yeah, Michael the, in 2021, or any other time, I've always said, 'Be flexible, you, we have to be agile to be able to pivot very quickly. We've got to pay attention and, and find new creative ways to deliver our products and our services'.
And I think the second thing I would say is, maybe second and third real quickly, I would say listen to your customer. The customer is voting on whether you're going to be successful or not. And they need to be included in the equation of what you're creating, you know. It used to be you tell them what they were going to get. And I'm a strong believer, include them. You're going to get great ideas as a result, by the way, you have to put you on a better journey and you'll produce better results. And then fail. Because you're going to. When you do, and fail, just fail fast, and apply the knowledge even faster.
Michael LeBlanc
If you would say to an entrepreneur, you should stop, I see you doing these kinds of things. I see this in the industry stop doing that to be successful.
Ray Civello
I'm a big supporter and a proponent of stop being mean. Stop being mean to yourself, stop being scared, be kind to yourself and take better care of yourself, and then take better care of the wonderful people that have chosen to work with you. That's, that's what I would say.
I see a lot of entrepreneurs becoming central in their focus, in art
Michael LeBlanc
and charging and you know, driving and all those kinds of things, right.
Ray Civello
That Gordon Ramsay approaches is not. No, it's not it's not conducive to creating wonderful cultures of people who want to come to work every day, who are excited to make a difference with you. If you want to make a difference, you want to create cultures that do that. But, I would say you know, it starts with you. Fall in love with you first. And then you can fall in love with others. You got to be kind to yourself.
Michael LeBlanc
Well Ray, it's great advice for, for the times and great advice no matter what time it is. Congratulations on, on your success and I wish you all the best continued success with the launch color space and, and all the salons and the skills that you bring. And thank you for bringing your insights and thoughts to, to listeners here on The Voice of Retail podcasts, its been a real treat, getting to know you and your business and, and catching up. And once again, thanks for joining me.
Ray Civello
Thank you very much, Michael is real pleasure. Thank you.
Michael LeBlanc
Thanks for tuning into today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news and insights. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating reviews it really helps us grow so continue to get amazing guests like Ray, on the show. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc Company Inc. If you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co until next time, stay safe and have a great week.