Today we have a special guest, Dr. John Izzo, joining us to discuss their personal and professional journey and their insights on the world of work. John is a prolific writer with nine books and many peer-reviewed articles, and decades of experience writing and helping organizations activate purpose with employees and customers. We will delve into the COVID era and its impact on the world of work, getting his opinion on whether the changes we currently see are a result of the pandemic or were already in motion due to demographics and technology. We will discuss the gig economy, remote work, and the structures many try to adjust to or rebel against. We will also touch on the "quiet quitting" or the "work my wage" movement and its relationship to the bifurcation of wages, social justice, or just a fad.
Hello, and welcome to the Voice of Retail podcast! My name is Michael LeBlanc, and I am your host. I believe in the power of storytelling to bring the retail industry to life. Each week, I'll bring insights, perspectives, and experiences from some of the retail industry's most innovative and influential voices. This podcast is produced in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Today we have a special guest, Dr. John Izzo, joining us to discuss their personal and professional journey and their insights on the world of work. John is a prolific writer with nine books and many peer-reviewed articles, and decades of experience writing and helping organizations activate purpose with employees and customers.
We will delve into the COVID era and its impact on the world of work, getting his opinion on whether the changes we currently see are a result of the pandemic or were already in motion due to demographics and technology. We will discuss the gig economy, remote work, and the structures many try to adjust to or rebel against. We will also touch on the "quiet quitting" or the "work my wage" movement and its relationship to the bifurcation of wages, social justice, or just a fad.
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About John
Dr. John Izzo is the bestselling author of nine books including the international bestsellers Awakening Corporate Soul, Values Shift, The Five Secrets You Must Discover Before You Die, The Five Thieves of Happiness and Stepping Up. John's passion in helping organizations activate purpose with employees and customers has inspired him to write The Purpose Revolution: How Leaders Create Engagement and Competitive Advantage in an Age of Social Good, in 2018. A second edition of Stepping Up was released in 2020. Over the last twenty years he has spoken to over one million people, taught at three major universities, advised over 500 organizations and is frequently featured in the media by the likes of Fast Company, PBS, CBC, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, and INC Magazine. He has advised some of the best companies in the world on activating purpose including DuPont, TELUS, Manulife, McDonald’s, SAPA, RBC, Lockheed Martin, Qantas Airlines, Humana, Microsoft, and the Mayo Clinic.
John was a pioneer in the Corporate Social Responsibility and Sustainability movements and is an Adjunct Professor at the University of British Columbia where he is a Co-Founder of Blueprint, which enhances the well-being of men and communities. John also serves on the Advisory Board of Sustainable Brands.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada and the Bank of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience with Levi's, Black & Decker, Hudson's Bay, Today's Shopping Choice and Pandora Jewellery.
Michael has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated worldwide in thought leadership panels. ReThink Retail has added Michael to their prestigious Top Global Retail Influencers list for 2023 for the third year in a row.
Michael is also the president of Maven Media, producing a network of leading trade podcasts, including Canada's top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail. He produces and co-hosts Remarkable Retail with best-selling author Steve Dennis, now ranked one of the top retail podcasts in the world.
Based in New York, Conversations with CommerceNext is a podcast focusing on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers with episodes talking with C-level executives operating in the U.S. and internationally.
Based in San Francisco, Global eCommerce Leaders podcast explores global cross-border issues and opportunities for eCommerce brands and retailers.
Last but not least, Michael is the producer and host of the "Last Request Barbeque" channel on YouTube, where he cooks meals to die for - and collaborates with top brands as a food and product influencer across North America.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Hello and welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. My name is Michael LeBlanc, and I am your host. I believe in the power of storytelling to bring the retail industry to life. Each week I'll bring insights, perspectives and experiences from some of the retail industry's most innovative and influential voices. This podcast is produced in conjunction with The Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:14
Today we have a special guest, Dr. John Izzo, joining us to discuss his personal and professional journey and his insights on the world of work. John is a prolific writer with nine books and many peer-reviewed articles with decades of experience writing and helping organizations activate purpose with employees and customers.
Michael LeBlanc 00:37
We will delve into the COVID era and its impact on the world of work, getting his opinion on whether the changes we currently see are a result of the pandemic, or were already in motion to demographics and technology. We'll also discuss the gig economy, remote work, the structures, many are trying to adjust to or rebel against. We will also touch on the "quiet quitting" trend or the "work my wage" movement and its relationship to the bifurcation of wages, social justice, or maybe it's just a fad. Anyway, let's listen in now. John, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing this afternoon?
Dr. John Izzo 01:15
Wonderful. It's great to be here with you.
Michael LeBlanc 01:18
Well, you and I had, I had the pleasure of meeting you at the London Drugs event here in Mississauga and I was listening to your presentation. I thought what a wonderful opportunity and what a wonderful guest you'd be. So, thanks so much for joining me on the, on the show.
Dr. John Izzo 01:33
It's great to be here. And thanks for all the great work you're doing on thought leadership and bringing great ideas to people.
Michael LeBlanc 01:40
Where are we finding you today? You're I noted, you know, from our conversation, you're a citizen of both countries where are you sitting today?
Dr. John Izzo 01:48
Yeah, today I am on Bear Mountain outside of Victoria, British Columbia, and then I spend a good part of my year also in Southern California, out in the desert. So, I am a dual citizen. So, I like to say I get to rant about two countries.
Michael LeBlanc 02:04
That's right. That's right. And boy, California is getting hit eh, with this rain, it's crazy, right? Like these, these weather bombs are just really, they're really something right?
Dr. John Izzo 02:15
Yeah, it's funny, of course, I'm up in British Columbia, where we're usually getting these Pineapple Express’. So, it's going south at the moment, they need the moisture. But,
Michael LeBlanc 02:23
Yeah, not all at once.
Dr. John Izzo 02:27
Not all at once. And it's one of the things that, you know, we know about climate change, which really another word of the climate instability is that, you know, these kinds of big events are becoming more common. So, sadly, we're going to have to get used to it unless we change our ways pretty quick.
Michael LeBlanc 02:44
Well, I think, I think it's a good theme, actually to talk about for the podcast, because looking at your work, I really want to dive into the kind of work you do. It's about change and understanding yourself and stepping back and having perspective and I can't think of a better place to do that other than in our business lives. And, you know, as it relates to the environment. But let's, let's talk about you. So, tell me I know a little bit about you. But talk about your journey, you had a super interesting journey. You're an author, you've written, and did I count right nine books, published papers, you got a master's in divinity. That's an interesting background, take us through it a little bit.
Dr. John Izzo 03:21
So, that the quick flyby of my life's journey is, I always tell people there's only three careers I ever considered. Law because I wanted to go into politics and kind of make a difference in society in that way. Journalism, I thought about becoming a journalist and writing about, you know, both the good and bad things happening in the world to try to accelerate the good. And the other thing is, I grew up in a very religious family in New York City. And so, the other thing I considered was becoming a Presbyterian Minister. So, long story short, after my undergraduate degree in journalism and sociology, I went to a seminary and for three years, got my degree in divinity, and spent seven years as a parish minister in Ohio and California, which is a beautiful, you know, time in my life, I learned so much. I've learned how to give a new talk every week. I got to be with people in the most profound moments of their lives. And, and interestingly, it was when I was in a church in Youngstown, Ohio, with steel mills closing around me in the quote, Rust Bowl days, when I kind of got a fire in the belly for the impact work had on people's lives in society. I saw the devastating impact of the way people were treated at work, on their lives and the impact of businesses on communities.
Dr. John Izzo 05:18
So, a long story short, I went back to get a PhD in organizational psychology thinking maybe I should go teach somewhere. And a long story short, as I said, I got a fire in the belly for the impact work had on people's lives. And now I've spent the last 40 years of my life writing about, speaking and advising companies on how to create great workplaces that, you know, enable the soul and at the same time, create great business. And I got the privilege of being on the front end of that movement in 1994, when I wrote my first book, Awakening Corporate Soul, when almost no one was talking about this idea that there was a kind of deeper well of commitment that a business could tap into that was more than just about a paycheck, and more than just about a job. So that is, then been the journey of these last 40 years,
Michael LeBlanc 05:38
You talk about, you know, the central thread of all this is really kind of social justice. Did that come from your family upbringing, like you went right into, to tell stories as a journalist and sociologist? Is that, is that where that came from? Like, when you were a kid did you want to be a fireman? Or did you want to be righting wrongs? Or when did that start?
Dr. John Izzo 05:57
Yeah, I definitely was a do-gooder from the beginning. For whatever reason, I have no idea actually. But I always kind of wanted to make a better world. But I, also Michael, was always incredibly interested in other people and their stories. And that's one of the things as a young minister I gotta do is sit with a lot of older people at the end of their lives and listen to the stories of their lives. And I, I realized how much you could learn from watching people who had already lived their lives and, and seeing what you could learn from that. And I think in many ways, even in my business career, I like to think of myself as a bee.
Dr. John Izzo 06:29
You know, I've worked with about 800 companies around the world, including some of the most admired and the least admired companies in the world. And I like to see myself as someone in my writing and my speaking in my, in my advising, that I go out and see what's working, whether it's how people find happiness and meaning in their lives, or why some businesses have a more sustainable success than others, and then try to spread what I've learned to others. So, I think that is that journalistic instinct that was always there for me, and an incredible interest in people and an interest in what worked and how we could spread it. And I think that's kind of the common thread in many ways of my life's work.
Michael LeBlanc 07:15
Yeah, I mean, it really, really resonates that you've both, both got, you're both a storyteller, and you've got deep both curiosity and empathy. I think those three things sound like kind of the formula; I want to tap into one thing. You're a prolific writer, and I always admire people, right? You've written so many great books and articles, and does writing come easy to you? What's your tradecraft for writing like, approaching the page? I've talked to a lot of authors and some, some say, man, it doesn't get easier. The first, you know, the sixth book was as hard as the first. You know less about the process. But how do you approach writing and, and that tradecraft for sharing wisdom in a way that people can consume?
Dr. John Izzo 07:54
Well, a famous writer, I can't remember who said it, I hate writing. But I love having written. And that really resonated for me, I see. I enjoy the oral communication that comes more naturally to me like doing this, I could do this for eight hours a day and never get tired. But writing is a bit of a chore for me. I don't really love writing, but I love having written and even as a young child, I used to work on plays, writing plays when I was like 10, or 12. So, I have written nine books and they've all been both a torture and a blessing. I will say for me, writing books has gotten easier because I feel I know how to write one now. So, I have a process and a discipline. And I always say to people who are thinking about writing a book, remember that writing is about putting the ass on the seat. Set aside time, do it even when you're not in the mood to do it. Even if all you do is sharpen pencils that day, and you didn't really get as much on the page,
Michael LeBlanc 08:22
Yeah.
Dr. John Izzo 08:23
As you hoped. You gotta put your time in and have a, have discipline, have a, build the skeleton first. And so, I thought if I build the structure, and also Michael, for me, I will write a book probably about every two to three years. And I find that it's important not to write another book too quickly, because I like to think like it takes a couple of years for you to collect the stories, the ideas, it's almost like coffee brewing inside of you. And then finally, it's ready to go out into the cup. And so, I tried to be patient waiting for that next idea, and then really nurture it for a while and make sure I'm in love with it before I put in all that time writing because writing is kind of torture for me though I love having it written.
Michael LeBlanc 09:36
Well, I had the great opportunity to interview Steven Pressfield who has written a lot of books on what he calls the resistance like the resistance of writing, fighting back resistance and, and breaking through to, to ultimately get what you're thinking and, and as you said percolating, I guess on onto the written page. Let's, let's talk now about work. Let's talk about the state of work today. You've done, you've been thinking deeply about it for many, many years. But let's talk about the state of work today. I mean, you know, was it, was the COVID era that disrupted the world of work, or were big changes already happening? We hear, you know, these couple of big trends around demographics. So, was it technology? The gig economy work is really different from when you and I first started our career. What, what was it, was it going to happen anyway, and it was accelerated by COVID? Or was COVID genuinely a pivot for us?
Dr. John Izzo 10:30
I think it's probably both though I would if I had to, if I had to be binary and choose, I would say that what we're seeing post-COVID is an extension of some trends that have been emerging over the last 30 years. And I've researched this pretty heavily both in my own research and looking at all the good research out there. And I think there are a couple of major themes.
Dr. John Izzo 10:39
One major theme is that work has become a more important part of people's lives. I often talk about a study done in the mid-1970s, when they asked Americans, what role does work play in your life? And about 85% of Americans said, work is mostly just a way to make a living, even people at very high end, you know, jobs. So, it's just, you know, work is not my identity, it's just kind of what I do for a living. Fast forward now, Michael about a mirror opposite over eight out of 10. People say work is an important part of my identity.
Dr. John Izzo 10:58
So, the first thing that's changed is that work isn't just work anymore for many people, it's not just a way to make a living, it's and especially among younger workers, it's become an important part of their expression of themselves in the world.
Dr. John Izzo 11:11
The second thing is, I think that what has happened over the last 30 years is that people used to be willing to leave a part of themselves in the parking lot when they came to work, their deepest values, their desires for freedom, freedom of expression, their desire to have a say, it's almost like we left that in the parking lot, when we went to work and accepted that at work, we would kind of be told what to do, we would probably not be our happiest, most authentic self, we'd have to kind of play the game to get along be the company person.
Dr. John Izzo 11:40
And I think when you see over the last 30 years is increasingly year-after-year, people are saying, I want to bring my most authentic self to work, I want it to have meaning for me, I want to have flexibility and to be able to make choices not only about how I do my work, but when I do it. And so I could go on. But what I think is COVID is merely accelerated the trends that were already happening, a desire for meaning, a desire for flexibility, a desire for work, to not just be a job, and the desire to really have a greater say over what you do and how you do it and when you do it. And of course, COVID has accelerated that, hybrid work is a great example. (Inaudible) people have always had this dream of maybe I don't want to be in the office every day and do all that commuting. And, but you know, it's like that old saying about how are you going to keep them down on the farm once they've seen Paris?
Michael LeBlanc 12:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. John Izzo 12:14
And I think that that's kind of what COVID has done. And also, between the Great Recession and then COVID. I think that people also got the message that loyalty was mostly a one-way street.
Michael LeBlanc 12:20
Yeah.
Dr. John Izzo 12:21
And that was that you had to look out for yourself, that the company was not going to take care of you in the way it perhaps did in a previous generation where people would work 30 or 40 years for one company. And they could count on that, although it never was probably as reliable as the myth. But I think now younger people say, hey, I know the game, right? I'm useful to you so long as you know, it works for you as a company. So, I'm going to have that same attitude. So, I think workers are more mercenary today, in part, because we kind of created that, because that's the way we mostly treated people in many companies.
Michael LeBlanc 14:05
Is it, Is it toothpaste out of the tube? I mean, if you think about this transition between work and our lives, I mean, I talked to many people who say that the COVID era did many things, but one of the lasting things is it reminded them that, you know, maybe having a life is more important than work. I mean, you see it in these trends, like what do they call it "quiet quitting", it's kind of a pejorative term, but your work, your wage, but it feels like there was, I don't want to call it an awakening when it might be a bit too dramatic. But it was like, hey, there's other things I can do besides work and commute every day and I kind of liked that and maybe I want to get back to that. And how do I get back to that? And I think, you know, it feels like employers are really struggling to, to find that Zen again, where it matters that work matters to in a meaningful way, but not an oppressive way. What do you, do, how do you reflect on that and think about this.
Dr. John Izzo 14:55
Yeah, I kind of laugh at these terms like "quiet quitting". You know, Gallup says 50% of the workforce is "quiet quitting" and no, no criticism of Gallup but it showed the same level of engagement and disengagement in 2000. You know, so basically, the truth is there have always been people who were not fully engaged at work and are saying, look, I'm only going to do what is necessary. I think the bigger issue, Michael, that you're saying is that I believe today, as employers, as workplaces, as individual leaders, we really have to ask ourselves, what, how do I create the soil, the conditions conducive to people giving the maximum of their effort and creativity? And that's really what employers should be thinking about. I honestly don't think that people are any less committed, any less willing to work hard than they've always been. If anything, I would argue many younger people are more career oriented in some ways than the previous generations. But it doesn't come for free. They're saying, I gotta have more than a paycheck, if you're going to get that from me. And so, I think that's where businesses should be focusing on not woe is me about some trend of people not willing to work as hard. But to be incredibly curious about what is the formula that brings that out in people and, and my view is, some of the parts of the formula have not changed in the 40 years I've been doing this. People want to feel appreciated,
Michael LeBlanc 16:46
Sure.
Dr. John Izzo 16:47
People want to feel in order, (crossover talk) and their, their leaders take an interest in their lives more than just as a cog in a wheel. They want to grow and develop and learn and know that you are concerned about that. And then they want some new thing, greater flexibility, greater say, they want to know that their work has meaning, to feel they're aligning with a company that cares about its customers and cares about its communities and gives them a chance to live their purpose at work. So, you have these traditional things that have not changed, like appreciation and having a say and feeling like I'm valued, coupled with these emerging desires for purpose, for flexibility, for alignment of values. And, you know, it's kind of simple to say, but hard to do. And it really,
Michael LeBlanc 17:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. John Izzo 17:21
Requires organizations to get very disciplined about what are the conditions that will make someone thrive and want to not "quiet quit", but really give everything they have?
Michael LeBlanc 17:31
Well, it's super interesting, because if I reflect on the COVID era, and I talked to senior executives frequently, and one of the things that they almost uniformly said was it you know, the one of the interesting implications or outcomes of the COVID, here during it was everybody had a mission, and everybody had the same mission, like it was a very unifying, you know, ironically, or paradoxically, was a very unifying event, everyone, we gotta get this company through, we just got to stay, you know, stay solvent, or we got to get goods on the shelf.
Michael LeBlanc 18:01
And then, you know, fortunately as the COVID era starts to fade, that mission becomes less, less clear. And, and it may expose other things that well, without that mission, where are we going and outreach back to normal? And, you know, is this caught up now, in social justice issues? What do you, how do you think about that? Do you agree that the mission, so to speak of the, of the depths of the COVID era was a, is a galvanizing force? And I think what you're saying is, how do you capture without, you know, a global pandemic? How do you capture this kind of essence of mission and purpose, on a day-to-day basis and actually build that into your, to your company and become an employer of choice, right?
Dr. John Izzo 18:40
Yeah, and I think there's no doubt in the research supports this, that when there's a crisis, you know, people rally around, right. And so, when a company's survival is at stake, you know, it's like a fire everyone is running to put out the fire.
Michael LeBlanc 18:51
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. John Izzo 18:53
The research also shows that it doesn't last, right. You can't (crossover talk) stay at that level. And so then we go back to the baseline of wherever we were. And that's where I think increasingly, employers and leaders need to be thinking about, you know, so for example, how do I consistently help people see how the work they do has meaning and purpose. I'll just give you a simple example then because it may be helpful for people. We did, Royal Bank is a big client of ours. And at one point, we did an experiment in some of their branches where a certain percentage of them started in their stand-up meetings, you know, they have meetings at the beginning of every day, simply one intervention. Anybody want to share a story about a way they've made a difference for a client or a customer since the last time we were together? Simple intervention, in those branches that did that there was a 25% bump in engagement and an 18% jump in sales over,
Michael LeBlanc 19:42
Wow.
Dr. John Izzo 19:43
Over a six-month period. The point of that is all they did was really allow people to talk about the ways their work was having meaning, the way they felt they could make a difference. So, I can't promise if you do that, you're going to get that exact level of bump.
Michael LeBlanc 20:17
Was that number 18%? Okay, well, let's lock that into,
Dr. John Izzo 20:20
But this is like a simple example of some simple habits and disciplines that can make a huge difference. But I think I'll give people a really interesting tidbit about purpose. Again, if people want to know more of my book, The Purpose Revolution, I go into great detail with this. But one of the things we know is if you map two things, how engaged and committed people are, and two things how clear the company is on its values and purpose and how much people feel aligned with that, and how clear an individual is on their own purpose. And where they get meaning from at work. And whether they feel they get to do that every day in their job. Well guess what, knowing what the company's values are, and their purpose and feeling aligned with it gets you a slight bump in engagement and commitment. But the big bump comes when people know what their purpose is, and what their meaning is. And they feel they get to live that every day in their job.
Dr. John Izzo
So, I'll go back to that Royal Bank example. What happened was, people were reminding themselves of how they got to live their purpose every day at work. And so, leaders ought to be very curious about where people get meaning from in their work, what gives them, what my grandfather used to call a good tired at the end of the day. And then really reinforcing that, in your coaching, in your recognition of saying, you know, I know that John gets turned on, when he is involved in a system change that makes life better at the system level. So, I'm going to not only give him assignments but recognize and, and reward him when he does that. With other people, it's more interpersonal, they get to make someone's day in a moment-to-moment experience. So, the more we get curious about where people have their own sense of meaning, and we can feed that. That, ironically, is where the magic is, although it matters if people like your purpose and feel aligned with it. But it turns out, it's a smaller impact than the day-to-day experience that people are having themselves.
Michael LeBlanc 22:18
How do you bring that down to an associate level? I think that's what you're talking about with your Royal Bank example. I mean, the associates who have the most in the, you know, in the retail industry, the vast amount of the 2.1 million Canadians that work in retail, they're, they're on the front lines, they're talking to, to consumers each and every day. And retailers are always asking me, you know, what are the best tips or best practices for retention? I think what you're outlining is kind of table stakes versus differentiators, right? I mean, the table stakes are, you know, you've got to have a purpose and a mission that you're articulating. And these tactics are, are really what's going to help differentiate them. Yeah?
Dr. John Izzo 22:55
Yeah, so three things really stand out to me, and I will be as practical as I can. The first thing is, hire people who find meaning in the kind of work that you do. So, for example, if I'm hiring people in a hotel, someone at the front desk. I want to hire someone who gets excited and turned on by helping people solve problems by, you know, having a positive, you know, interaction with someone very similar to retail. How do we gauge that? Well, we asked people, tell me about the previous jobs you had? Tell me when you had a good day? What was that like? What, what really made it a good day, when you find meaning in your work what is it? So, you know, we want to get people for whom their basic orientation of pleasing people and helping people is important. And even in a tight labor market, we're better off being careful about trying to hire people who are going to get turned on by the work that we're doing. Because it may take me longer to hire someone, but when I hire them, they're more likely to stay. So, that's one thing.
Dr. John Izzo 23:31
The second thing is continually in your own storytelling, reinforce the meaning of the work. So, let me use this simple example. You know, let's say I'm in a clothing store. And I say, you know what we sell clothes here, but what we really do here is we get to help people feel better about themselves, to raise their self-esteem, to really feel good when they go to work or when they go out about themselves and who they are in the world. So, if you're helping a customer, you know, choose clothes, you're actually helping raise their self-esteem, helping them really choose an outfit or something that's really going to make their day and it sounds silly when you say it. But I believe when leaders talk about that and then highlight when it happened. Hey, the other day you know, I got to tell you about what Michael did with a client. I saw them come in. They looked like they were kind of in a bad mood, but he took the time to really help them pick just the right outfit for their new job. And man, I could tell that he made their day. So, we want to continually reinforce how the work is not just about the numbers. And we do that through storytelling, we do that through the imaginative leap of what's happening for that customer. And air-, I've done a lot of work in the airline business. And, you know, one of my favorite leaders who, who ran the people who do like, you know, check you in, and then you know, at the gate agents, and he would always say to them, remember how people feel when they come to the airport, they're stressed,
Michael LeBlanc 25:02
They're anxious.
Dr. John Izzo 25:04
They're afraid, they're not going to make their flight to get to that important event that they're there at, they may be scared of flying. So, by getting people to think about what was in the mind of the customer, he got them to connect to the meaning. So, if I'm in retail, I want to really help my team members understand that person who's coming into the store, and whatever that area of retail you're in, it's going to be a little different. So, this is the kind of imaginative leap that really helps. And then just day-to-day, recognize people when they do a good job, and make a big deal of it and connect it to their values. If you know that person loves helping a person pick that exactly right outfit just as a simple example. Then when you see them do that, highlight it. So again, the more I understand where an individual gets meaning from, the more I can connect my recognition and coaching to the things that matter to them. So, be curious.
Dr. John Izzo 26:07
One more interesting thing, Michael, I've asked people all over the world with no preparation to tell me what their purpose is, in their work and in their life. But 85% of people around the world, no matter what level they're at, can more or less tell me what their purpose was with no preparation. So, you'd be shocked as a leader when you start asking people, Hey, what's your purpose? Where do you get meaning in your job when you have a good day? What's and you really feel you made a difference? What happens,
Michael LeBlanc 26:54
Where's that off button?
Dr. John Izzo 26:57
On that day? Get curious.
Michael LeBlanc 27:01
So, interesting. Let me, let me turn the, the narrative around a little bit and get your advice for listeners perhaps earlier in their career, younger listeners, younger managers, what's your advice to them? And we've been talking about it from the employer's perspective. But for those who are, you know, starting their journey, their professional journey, what's your best advice for them to have a successful and fulfilling career?
Dr. John Izzo 27:24
Well, my wife always says I say three things before I know if there's three things. So, I was about to say there are three things, but I think there are indeed three things this time. The first thing is pay attention to your first career opportunities, they're more important than you think. A friend of mine, Jim Kouzes, did some research on the impact of the first supervisor on people's ultimate success in their career. And it turns out that one of the best predictors of your long-term success in your career is the first person you have as a supervisor, when you begin whatever career you're entering. That's the role model. That's the person who will mentor you, give you tough feedback, help you be your best self. So, pay attention to that first job. The second thing and go to work for someone who you're going to learn from. The second thing is to choose your company as much as you choose the job. You know, when I was in university, here's how I chose the courses I took. I ignored the course description, I found out who the best professors were. The ones who had the highest ratings, the ones the students loved and felt they learned a lot from, and I took as many courses as I could from those professors, because I discovered that that was far more important than the course description. I think the same thing is true of a job description. Early in your career, attach to a company you're going to learn from, ideally, a place where you could grow and maybe even have an entire career around it or if not, that's the kind of place you're going to learn a lot.
Dr. John Izzo 29:26
The final thing is work on your people skills early in your career. It doesn't matter whether you become a manager or not, all the research says that your career success is primarily dependent on your softer skills, your capacity for empathy, your capacity to listen, your capacity to be seen as someone who connects with others and makes positive connections with people. So, pay attention to those people parts of your skill. And here's another important one, early in your career when people give you feedback, don't defend it, learn from it. When people give you feedback, don't say thank you, but say thank you tell me more. Because early in your career, people will give you hints of your Achilles heel. And the sooner you listen to what that Achilles heel is and say I'm going to work on that, the more likely you are to have a successful career.
Michael LeBlanc 29:47
How does your advice, kind of a follow on, a quick follow-on question? You know, many young folks are looking at opportunities of total remote work. I mean, if you work for a big company like Shopify, you don't, you don't go to an office in a conventional or traditional sense. Do you see the advice holding true? Or are you, are you kind of able to modify the advice? Or would you say, Listen, don't take a job where you're, you've never seen your colleagues? How do you, how do you think about that just quickly as we kind of wrap up?
Dr. John Izzo 30:13
Well, the first thing is, obviously, a lot of people love going into hybrid or virtual work. But understand there are consequences of that, I'm always going to have a bigger say, if I'm in the room physically, that's just human reality. Most relationships are built around the edges of work, at lunch, at the coffee shop, at the copy machine, wherever it is. And so, I think it's really important early in your career to be present. That's also where a lot of your mentoring and, and, and sponsoring will come from. The other thing is, if you're a hybrid worker, don't just say I come in on Tuesday, I come in on Friday, go in when it counts, when there's a meeting, when you know, you're going to have a bigger chance to contribute because you're in the room. Because you know, on that day, some people you want to connect with are in the office in those days. So, don't just say I come in on Tuesday, I come in on Friday, come in when you know it's going to count to be there. And know that early in your career, being physically present is going to build your relationships and really make your brand stand out in a way that virtual or hybrid is never going to do. It's never going to be the same in my view. So, you got to pay attention to that, especially early in your career as convenient as it may be, to be all virtual.
Michael LeBlanc 31:32
What's next for you? You've had multiple acts in your play, so to speak. What's next, you're someone who likes to keep busy and actively engaged? What's next on your plate?
Dr. John Izzo 31:42
Yeah, well, a couple of things. First, more and more, I'm leaning into the big issues of our time. I've just started my own podcast, and you gave me some great advice on that called The Way Forward,
Michael LeBlanc 31:47
Congratulations.
Dr. John Izzo 31:49
It's really about having regenerative conversations about how humanity and society have to change for us to have a positive way forward. And we explore all kinds of territory from agriculture and technology to business, and world governance. So, the first thing is, I really want to stay engaged in the biggest issues of our time, I think this is a critical time for humanity. The second thing is, you know, I'm leaning into my more creative side, I've been working on a screenplay for a couple of years now. And I really have always wanted to do a fiction piece. And I believe that's going to take the form of a screenplay or a play. And so, I'm leaning into that creative side, as well as Michael, just keep doing what I've been doing, which is inspiring leaders and companies and individuals to be their best selves and to make their biggest contribution. And to do good by doing good. And so anyway, it's a continuation of the same. And then some more creative and big picture enterprises that have, have started to tap me on the shoulder.
Michael LeBlanc 33:04
And if folks want to get in touch with you and learn more, maybe you know, explore working with you. What's the best way to do that?
Dr. John Izzo 33:10
Yeah, the easiest way is to go to my website, drjohnizzo.com. Just drjohnizzo.com or izzo.com. If you're in canada.com, just Google John Izzo, fortunately, there aren't a lot of us. I'm the first one who came up.
Michael LeBlanc 33:25
Well, John has been such a treat having this discussion. I feel like we could chat about these issues at length. And then maybe I'll get you back on the podcast later in the year as work and society evolves. It's a constantly moving evolution. But for now, thanks so much for joining me on The Voice of Retail. I was a real treat to speak with you at length on these issues. I'll put links in the show notes to all the work you've mentioned, your new podcast, congratulations on that and your books and I encourage everybody to subscribe and read. And for now, I wish you a great rest of your day and safe travels for the balance of the year.
Dr. John Izzo 33:56
Thank you, Michael, and thanks for a great conversation.
Michael LeBlanc 34:00
Thanks for tuning into this episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure and follow on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically each week. And check out my other retail industry media properties; Remarkable Retail podcast with Steve Dennis, The Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and the Global eCommerce Leaders podcast. Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my YouTube barbecue show Last Request Barbecue with new episodes each and every week. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, Growth Consultant, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company and Maven Media, and keynote speaker. If you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
Safe travels everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
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