In this episode, I sit down with friend and fellow Top 100 Retail Influencer, Carl Boutet to talk about resilience and relevance in retail. Carl calls on his depth of experience and research to flesh out the transformations that retail has undergone in the pandemic and the reality of a 50-50 online-digital retail landscape.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
In this episode, I sit down with friend and fellow Top 100 Retail Influencer, Carl Boutet to talk about resilience and relevance in retail.
Carl calls on his depth of experience and research to flesh out the transformations that retail has undergone in the pandemic and the reality of a 50-50 online-digital retail landscape.
As a consultant, speaker and educator in the retail space, Carl is now channeling his expertise into a book! It’s called The Great Acceleration: The Race to Retail Resilience and you can buy it on his website today.
Thanks for tuning into today’s episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode please consider leaving a rating and review, as it really helps us grow so that we can continue getting amazing guests on the show.
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!
Until next time, stay safe and have a great week!
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada. In this episode, I sit down with friend and fellow Top 100 Global Retail Influencer, Carl Boutet, to talk about resilience and relevance in retail. Carl calls on his depth of experience and research to flesh out the transformations that retail has undergone in the pandemic, and the reality of a 50-50 online-digital retail landscape. As a consultant, speaker and educator in the retail space, Carl is now channeling his expertise into a book. It's called, 'The Great Acceleration: The Race to Retail Resilience'.
Carl Boutet
So, so, I mean, the catchy title is, 'The Great Acceleration', but the subtitle is probably more important. And, the book is actually the beginning of something, it's not a, it's not a static endeavor, what it's really does is launching a subscription service, that is the race throughout, the race to relevance. And that, what that subscription is going to do is when, it's sort of take the concepts from the book, there's a whole section I had mentioned also on the data points, we're, we're tracking 12 and we'll be adding during a subscription, you know, more than 12 markets and their, their eCommerce adoption rates and how that is evening and broadening out.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's listen in now.
Carl, welcome back to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you my friend?
Carl Boutet
I am well, thanks for having me back feels like home.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, it's great to chat with you. Last time, I think you and I saw each other in person, I'm tracking, I think it was the Montreal DTL event in, in Montreal, in late 2019. Before that was (inaudible) you, me and,
Carl Boutet
Dr. Dennis,
Michael LeBlanc
Steve Dennis, were sit, yeah, Steve Dennis were sitting together and chit chatting. And, a lot, a few things have happened since then, since both of those events and,
Carl Boutet
Two or three,
Michael LeBlanc
Lots going on in your life, I'm happy you're still standing. It must have been a heck of a week for you, and a heck of a kind of run up. So, let's, let's jump right in. For the benefit of the listeners that may not have heard our interactions in the multiple places and may not know as much about you as they need to, tell me about yourself and who you are, what you do for a living, and a bit of your, your journey.
Carl Boutet
Yeah, which is also evolving all the time, or accelerating, I guess is probably the better term in this past, in this past year. So, my time is sort of split three ways right now. A third is consulting, doing sort of mostly advisory work really related to go to market strategy for retailers and the ecosystem that supports them. So, you can think technology providers in there and whatnot. The other third is is speaking, which you know, which now includes a lot of this, being on different virtual stages, especially over the last year. And the last third, and the one that's grown the most, or really came to in the, since last summer, is teaching. So, I'm, I'm teaching it the Executive Education, or sorry, the Executive Institute at McGill, where I teach marketing. And, I will be, and this is sort of a new, new thing that I'll be announcing officially in coming days, but I'll be in June teaching the MBA, marketing at the MBA at the Asian Institute of Technology based in Bangkok.
Michael LeBlanc
Wow, wow, that's exciting. I know I wanted to get into some of your travels. You made it over to, to Asia, just prior to the pandemic. I was,
Carl Boutet
Yeah, this teaching opportunity is actually directly related to that. So yeah, I was in, I was actually in Bangkok and then Shanghai,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
In January 2020. So, I was getting on a plane January 16, 2020, with this tsunami behind me without even knowing,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Carl Boutet
it was there, but
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
I sure, you know, it sure changed a lot in the ways that I, the way I dealt and, and basically even came up with the narrative for this book that we're I'm sure going to talk about in a couple of minutes but yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
So, travels once upon a time that were hopefully looking like you know, maybe we can, they start thinking again about doing those before the years, the year is up.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, it's looking positive. I was looking, I was tracking, I do a live stream with Retail Council of Canada every week, and part of it I tracked for the members you know, the progression of vaccines because back in, you know back in late last year I said, 'Listen, this is all going to come down to a race between the vaccines and the variants'. And I think we're gonna actually get past the US at least in terms of percentage of population with the first shots. You know, things, things are looking up. I mean we can see the, I often say we can see the end zone, the goalposts keep moving on a day-to-day basis. Things are lightening up where you are in Montreal. Starting, we might open up, we were still in locked down here might, in Toronto, but by the time this goes to air, I think that'll be open.
Michael LeBlanc
Now, you and I first met, speaking of Retail Council of Canada, connected to them, you were overseeing a buying group for furniture retailers at the time, right?
Carl Boutet
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
If I remember correctly,
Carl Boutet
I was, I played a couple of different roles with them first. It was not their furniture, whole, home appliance, electronics, they were in a couple of different verticals but yeah, the Mega Group, which
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right,
Carl Boutet
(inaudible) Group, doing really well right now, and still, still close to several key people there. And yeah, so that was, I guess how we met, and I brought them on board to the Retail Council of Canada, and that's probably in that context that we, we first met. But yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, right on.
Carl Boutet
It was a good way, it was sort of a nice counterbalance to having worked with Costco for a decade and then get really close to the independents. So, the show gave me two, two sides of two extremes, I guess of, of the retail business model.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, no kidding. Now, talk a little bit about, because you and I have talked about, you talked about some of this education work that you do. And, are you connected with the McGill and their Bensadoun School of Retail Management as well? If you could,
Carl Boutet
Yeah, so, I guess now, sorry. So now, I think you could consider more as an ambassador, because the story goes the day, at the May 2017, press release comes out that Mr. B, also known as Mr. Bensadoun, made a substantial gift to McGill to launch a retail management school. And, and so, so in there, there was talk of a lab, which was a project that I'd been promoting for a while to the, to a Retail Innovation Lab in Montreal. So, the day after that press release, I was in the Director, the Academic Director's office, who I had never met before, but just reached out and said, 'Hey, listen, I think I could probably help you with that. At least, I've been tracking this space for quite some time and can share some best practices and connect, connect you to the industry'. Actually, I think the first person I connected, Saibal with was, was Diane. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Diane Brisebois, yeah from RCC
Carl Boutet
Yeah, so that was, you know, one of the first things because yeah, a typical with, you know, the academic world is sort of, they have their industry contacts, but they might not be as far reaching. So, I, so, I started off actually as an ambassador, and then worked closely with the school as we prepared to put the lab in place. And, and so I was on contract with them for a couple of years, mostly on that side. And they, and now the lab is open. It's a really exciting space that was, that's in a partnership with Cuche-Tard, which
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Carl Boutet
is Circle K,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
Which was the first fully automated checkout experience in Canada. And, just on the heels of their Arizona store, but it was temporary was actually supposed to be the first but because of the pandemic and some technical glitches provoked by the pandemic, it ended up being the second one. And,
Michael LeBlanc
And, it's a fully shoppable store, right? I mean, we call it, you call it a lab, we call it a lab, but it's a, it's a really live living lab,
Carl Boutet
Yeah, yeah, right,
Michael LeBlanc
On Main Street in Montreal, right.
Carl Boutet
So, so 50% of it would be indistinguishable from any other Circle K, just like a nice new one with all the latest in terms of lising and product mix and all that. But there's, there's a significant part of it, that's a really fully automated space, which you, is, the similar to what we've seen with Amazon Go, I guess, it would be the first comparison. Although I consider this one, I think more, more evolved, but it's the idea where you, you need an app, basically, to access the space and you, you pick through, you know, you pick whatever you want, and you walk in and it has, you have that sort of walkout experience as well.
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Carl Boutet
So, you can, you don't have to use that portion, you can just go through the traditional space. But, the reason why we insist on calling it a lab is because it is on University grounds, and its primary purpose is research. So, it's made very clear that the people that are entering the space are, well, although their privacy is protected, and there's no personally identifiable information being tracked, it's still for research purposes, but it is a fully functioning operational Circle K, you know Cuche-Tard.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, such, it's such a great idea. I ran one of those for Hudson's Bay, a store of the future, where we picked a store, and we just, you know, put all the newest technology in and, you know, wanted to kind of, once it got,
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
past the duct tape stage,
Carl Boutet
To be honest, Michael, this is actually a lot bigger, you know, I think we more ambitious than when I started because the, the lab idea, and I ended up doing it shortly, well, this past year, during the pandemic, with, with shop local initiatives, where we opened these spaces, we're not quite as ambitious because this the McGill one has the resources and, and the, the timeframe to really do something long and really substantial with, with the depth that academics bring.
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Carl Boutet
Whereas, so I, but my idea was to do something more like that store of the future. Bring in all sorts of cool new technologies, it's very iterative, a lot of, you know, fast moving, changing concepts, something like Story, that you've, you know, you've, you're familiar with. And that sort of, a blend of those, of those dynamics which, with the Quebec Center for Commercial Innovation we did last summer, now that we just opened the third one, in Montreal. And that's another project that I'm now an ambassador for. But those are, those are really to promote sort of the startups that are, that are developing the new technologies, at the same time as connecting, bringing in the buy local brands and allowing those two, to, to merge, which is not something that would have been possible at McGill. So McGill is much longer,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
They're not going to be turning over the concepts in months, like, like we've been doing. This is a long-term substantial, substantial investment, that's really going to be fascinating to see how it how it plays out. While the, you know, I think it's a nice counterbalance to what we're doing with the Innovation Center, which is called the Acheter plus ici, or, which means 'buy more here', which is a true buy local initiative that promotes both local technologies and local products. So,
Michael LeBlanc
And Quebec is a real leader in that space. I you know, I read the news last week, some funding from the city of Montreal to I don't know if I'd call it a competitor to Uber, but somehow to pull together something that enables the restaurants to do their business, but not pay exactly the same fees. And then, and then Panier Bleu,
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Which is really kind of an amazing initiative. Sylvain Prud'homme I think, is chairing that,
Carl Boutet
Sylvain and Alain, who was a big part of the Retail Council as well,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Carl Boutet
Alain Dumas, who's the GM of that. And, I'm involved in through technology councils and code. Yeah, so yeah, very, really, that's sort of been and that actually was part of our innovation center, that the buy local products, the platform for that came from Panier Bleu. So, yeah, a lot of moving, good moving things. We work also with the ICTC, which is federal, and the third sort of piece of that, of that project is training tomorrow's leaders. So, we hire, we have up to 50 interns right now.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
That are being trained in an intelligent commerce, to so, so promoting the use of these, these new technologies to local businesses to make sure that they remain relevant and resilient. Another big theme of mine. So,
Michael LeBlanc
And leveling the playing field, right. I mean, that's the,
Carl Boutet
Exactly,
Michael LeBlanc
Wonderful thing about these technologies is, you know, that it doesn't solve all the problems by any means, but, you know,
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
You and I have got a long history in this space. So, you know, when I launched Hudson's Bay, it was a million dollars to take a credit card online, those days are gone. Other, other issues happened. Right, right.
Carl Boutet
Crazy, right?
Michael LeBlanc
Right. It's like, it's almost like the tyranny of choice, right? You've got so many choices, I think it's kind of like, you know, our kids who, when you and I were growing up finding information was the hard part. Now it seems to be sorting through the right information. So,
Carl Boutet
Absolutely,
Michael LeBlanc
It feels that way, from a technology perspective, too, right?
Carl Boutet
Well, not, any sort of consumption level perspective, that's what, that's where the challenge has become.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
And this project was meant to, to sort of de-risk that. So, the idea is we created a toolbox, we have right now, you know, close to 30 solutions in there. They've all been pre filtered for the, to be relevant for, for small business, i.e. affordable, not just in price, but in time investment and resources so that they don't, they don't need an IT team to integrate an appointment booking tool, or a quick ship solution, or an SMS marketing, or whatever is,
Michael LeBlanc
Curbside, or whatever, some appointments, curbside, all these things, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carl Boutet
That are there, and that was really the (inaudible) shopping being a big one, too. And we've talked about that too in other episodes. But, the idea was, you know, what I told us we have we have Montreal, Laval and west of Montreal area, where the (inaudible) that are part of it. And, what we tell the teams there is, you know, 'Retailer, retailers come and go, right'. And obviously, during the pandemic, it's been, it's been that much more stressful. But, what this project is trying to do is we don't want them to go, because or close because they weren't aware that these solutions existed,
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Carl Boutet
I wouldn't want them, I wouldn't want them a couple of months later to go, 'Oh, if only we had had,'
Michael LeBlanc
If only we had known.
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah,
Carl Boutet
Exactly. The information is there, but it's over, it's overwhelming.
Michael LeBlanc
It's overwhelming.
Carl Boutet
And they see it and they think it's only for the Apple Store, and for Best Buy, and for Canadian Tire. But no, these, to your point earlier about credit card integrating, you know, the same way that now you can get, you can get stripe to take a credit card payments very easily, you can, you can take the Booksy to, to book appointments, or you can use Hay Day to do, to automate your chatbots. All these fun things that are happening and we've got 30 of those in the box, in the toolbox that are, that are destined for, for, for these small businesses. The challenge for us is making sure they at least are aware that we're there. And, then we have the cities that are promoting their projects, their programs along the way to help finance some of this and support your local, which has been the big, the big, one of the big shifts of the last year, is the intensity of interest by the municipal partners, something we've never seen before. Because they, they realize the impact the pandemics having on their high streets, or their main streets and, and they know that, that counters the quality of living in their, in their respective communities and they need to, to support it, and this was sort of one way of doing that,
Michael LeBlanc
You know, if we come out of this pandemic with anything positive, it's, it's I think you're right is a couple of things I can think of one of which is, if you weren't connecting as a municipal leader, the main street retail to the viability of your cities, you certainly are now.
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
I mean, you appreciate something, sometimes when it's gone, like if you're, you know, if you're thinking to pass and more of these ridiculous tax burdens on small business with, you know, I'm going to tax you as if there was a condo on that place. You know, I think maybe that, maybe this. Anyway, so listen, there's lots of lessons,
Carl Boutet
Yeah, there's a lot, it's not a week goes by that I'm, we're not pulled into one of those conversations.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
And you're, they recognize just, you know, fiscally, the impact this is having. And now they're trying to figure out beyond that now, not just the financial side, but the bigger picture quality of life.
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Carl Boutet
And so, yeah, so it's, it is, it is one of theirs, there are several, several silver linings, I think from this pandemic that we're, we're going to come back and appreciate once we sort of get our head ot of the water, but
Michael LeBlanc
Right
Carl Boutet
We're still in it. We're still in it. So,
Michael LeBlanc
So, well, the one thing I appreciate and let's get on to it. You've, you've been busy writing and chronicling and talking to people, tell us all about your latest big initiative, your latest venture, the book. And, and, you know, why'd you write it? What's it called? What's it about? How you approached it? A lot of questions. So,
Carl Boutet
Yeah, there's a, there's a lot to unpack. So, so yeah, I mean, I still even struggled calling it a book, although there is a book that's a part of it. But, so the, the title, and it's been a five-year ongoing project of mine, which I'm sure you are, and many others, anybody who's interested in sort of voicing their, their, their, their position, and books are sort of a static endeavor. So, I'm always, always trying to figure out how to do it. But, so the book that was released May 19, so just a couple of days ago, is 'The Great Acceleration: The Race to Retail Resilience'. It's been, I call it a five-year endeavor, because I, well, around five years ago, I was having my MBA reunion dinner, which I think was our 10 year reunion dinner, and I spent the dinner sitting next to my, my favorite strategy prof, Doug Reid. I think who I was at Queen's, I know we were actually in Toronto for this dinner. think more people from Queens live in Toronto than anywhere else.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Carl Boutet
And we just spent the whole night talking just about business strategy in general. And dynamics, it was a fascinating conversation. Yeah, we touched on retail a bit too. But, beyond that, and he just said toward it, when it's time to leave, he grabbed me and said, 'You, you know what, Carl? You, you've got a book in you'. And, I never even heard that term before. So, I was so, sort of rattled by it, but, but it's sort of, I guess it set off a light. So, what do I want to talk about? You know, where, where do I want to bring this? And you know, I'm pretty good at, I think, you, sharing paragraph sized insights, especially on LinkedIn and these sorts of things.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
And so, then how do I start tying that all together? And what I was thinking about writing a couple years ago is inspired by Barbara Kahn's, Shopping Revolution book, and the framework she'd built around,
Michael LeBlanc
Out of Wharton, right, she was a prof at Wharton, right?
Carl Boutet
Yeah, she's exactly, prof at Wharton, she was Director of the Baker school at that time too, retailing at Wharton. So, so, so there, I really, really kind of was getting really interested in the whole notion of relevance and what makes, what makes a brand or retailer, or any kind of venture, relevant to consumer. And, so, I was researching that more and more and paying close attention. I was like well maybe, you know starting to think about a book on, based on that, and built out this index, which is in The Great Acceleration as well. To sort of, then went a step further, to, based on, on Professor Kahn's work, but sort of, shift, changed a couple of the terminology around that I, that aligned more with the way I, I saw the dynamic unfolding.
And then, January 2020, or, you know, through to 2019, and January 2020, I wrote a piece for Retail Insider, are friend, Greg's publication, and thinking, going back saying last day, you know, the biggest trend of the previous decade was direct to consumer, and that the biggest trend of the upcoming decade would be sustainability. And that basically anybody, you know, any brand today that was really making a conscious invested effort in differentiating based on sustainability was going to be able to drive economic value from that and then five years from now, it's sorted of be table stakes and 10 years from now, if you weren't doing it, you would be heavily penalized, you know, you're here your economic margins would be, would be really reduced because you would be seen as quite detrimental and yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah,
Carl Boutet
So, that was going to be, the that was where the book was going. And there's a part called the sustainability flywheel in the book that sort of, which I was really, you know, I won't say surprised, but happy to, to hear it come out very quickly in the interviews I did for the book. So, there is about a, there were a dozen interviews, of which eight of, the eight of them I highlighted directly into their own chapters, with illustrations and everything else. So, so, the word sustainability was always coming back without me, you know,
Michael LeBlanc
Prompting it, or
Carl Boutet
Without me questioning, without me saying, so what do you think about sustainability? The, the conversation quickly would turn to sustainability, which was really encouraging.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, and it feels like, sustainability took a backseat. I want to get back to that. But okay, so this, tell me about the format of this book, because you did a lot of interviews around it. Is it, is it you writing your, your strategic thoughts? Is there a mix of interviews that, that augment it? How does it how to come together for it?
Carl Boutet
Yeah, well, and it is, it's a stream of consciousness, I guess, in, in different ways. So, it is the idea, you could, you could see that it was sort of three books in one. So, the relevance piece and so there's, there's the relevance, the relevance index that I am pack. There's the sustainability flywheel that this notion that you, you need to start with planet and you know, that which, which is gonna lead you to, to attract better stakeholders, employees, customers, and all that and suppliers. And then, and then, that will lead to profit. So, that was, that was the sustainability flywheel, the three P's, or the B-Corp philosophy or, and, for those that are familiar with that.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
That piece, so. And then, there's these, these eight interviews that I conducted with people like, well, you know, Scott Galloway quite well.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Carl Boutet
So, Scott, Scott, I caught Scott on the day, on the day that the GameStop revolution happened. So, he was, yeah, it was a pretty interesting interview, very focused on the societal impacts of the acceleration.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Carl Boutet
And then, then, you know, I go from,
Michael LeBlanc
He's, he's about, you know, I listen to him on, on multiple podcasts.
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
I haven't had the chance to speak to him personally, other than you and I were on the same camera with him, so to speak at Steve's first launch, but,
Carl Boutet
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
He worries about this bifurcation, so to speak, as Steve would say that, that, you know, the, the schism in society, right, the,
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
The, the winners and the losers, this kind of binary,
Carl Boutet
Called it dispersion,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah,
Carl Boutet
But, exactly. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
He talks about how the winner, yeah, the K-shape recovery, that, that he has a lot of concerns. And, it was actually in that, on that on camera that I first introduced, The Great Acceleration was at,
Michael LeBlanc
That's right,
Carl Boutet
That book launch, that's for the first time when he was saying, that he was using the word acceleration, not just him, everybody was talking about. And that's why The Great Acceleration, the con, the name comes from the idea that we went through the Great Recession, and before a long time before, the Great
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
Depression, and sort of maybe an optimistic way, at least, to look back on what we've got, we're going through, we've gone through will be The Great Acceleration. That's, that's, that's the narrative that where that comes from. And now I, I actually proposed that, that exact framing to Scott, on that, on that book launch, and he agreed, and
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
Lo and behold, the first chapter of his book is called The Great Acceleration, which is so but it's, yeah. So, Scott's there, we have, I have amazing like, and I think the rest are probably less commonly known, but people that I, I reach out to and done different projects with that I find very really insightful that are more on the operation side. So, (inaudible) who, who runs the sort of new store concept for Decathlon around the world and she's part of their 2030 strategic group, the largest sporting goods retailer in the world, which surprises a lot of people in North America, but if you're from Europe,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
You're already quite familiar and pretty much anywhere else in the world quite honestly, if
Michael LeBlanc
If you know, what are they, what do they up to? I think their ambitions are to get to 10 stores in Canada, but I think they're at four or five, but they started in Quebec right? Start, start where you,
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Where you are close to, close to home, so to speak, right?
Carl Boutet
Exactly. And they are so, they they're growing like crazy right now and through the US as well. They've been in Latin America, so they're, so they're, so they're, so her vision and she knows a lot of conversation around sustainability with her as well. Because they, their whole core purpose is around healthy living. So, they can't, you know, this, they realize they can't disassociate, active lifestyle with healthy lifestyle, with healthy living, which means sustainable living as well. And then, so people like that, people like Vibhu Norby, who you probably know from b8ta, and he, how he's pivoting right now, is one of the most innovative business models I've seen in retail over the last decade where he wasn't really selling anything other than sort of the engagement data back to the brands that were, were in the space.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Carl Boutet
Now he's going really hard on the whole life shopping thing, actually. And then, the head of, of the innovation leads for H&M, who runs the whole sustainability agenda for H&M. Obviously, we, that, and that, he contributed a lot to the part, the chapter on the flywheel, which I had my friend Molly Vade, from London, help me write, because she she's she writes about this full time, more so on the fashion side of sustainability, and more on the environmental piece, but as much as social as well. So, and so, like things like that people that you probably haven't, apart from Scott, the others, you, If you've heard of them, maybe because I've shared some other things with them,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Carl Boutet
Or your close,
Michael LeBlanc
Industry thought leaders, deep industry
Carl Boutet
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Thought leaders,
Carl Boutet
Not just thought that I just thought leaders their operators, right,
Michael LeBlanc
They're doers, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Carl Boutet
They're working, they're working day-to-day in these, in the environments. They know their realities. They're entrepreneurs, they're executives. So, yeah, a lot of fascinating people. That friend of mine in India, who was VP of the largest retail group there who just started his own his own endeavor, too. So, so, you know, I'm really, I think my next book is going to be around India and, in emerging markets, how those are impacted by the acceleration because they were clearly, you know, this is, I think this is, sort of the Alibaba moment for a lot of these markets. After SARS, what SARS did for Alibaba. In China, I think we're seeing,
Michael LeBlanc
Right, interesting.
Carl Boutet
We talked about that very briefly,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
In, in Steve's latest book lunch, but that's something I'm particularly interested in. And one of the reasons why I wanted to teach at The Asia Institute of Technology, because it was going to bring me closer to that to.
Michael LeBlanc
What couple things would you, would you like people to take away with them? or from your book that, that you think you want? You want it did the stick, you know, close the last page, read the last page, what do you want them to take away?
Carl Boutet
So, so I mean, the catchy title is, 'The Great Acceleration', but the subtitle is probably more important. And, the book is actually the beginning of something, it's not a, it's not a static endeavor. What it's really does is it's launching a subscription service, that is the race to, the race to relevance. And that, that, what that subscription is going to do is we're going to sort of take the concepts from the book, there's a whole section I had mentioned also on the data points, where we're tracking 12, and we'll be adding during the subscription, you know, more than 12 markets, and their, their eCommerce adoption rates and how that needs even broadening out and what are we defining as eCommerce. But the core tenant, we're really, what the Race to Resilience is, and what I speak mostly about in the book and how sustainability and the relevance index and all this come together, is this notion that I'm, we're going to a 50-50 world. Where at least I want to, I want to support and be there for organizations that are preparing for 50-50 world.
Michael LeBlanc
Unpack that for me, what is, what do you mean by a 50-50 world?
Carl Boutet
Yeah, so 50-50, physical digital, where basically the distance doesn't really matter as much as it does right now. You know, you and I come from places where we worked in initiatives that, you know, they were very siloed to us, our friend Steve's thing, where they moved the silos and now belong on farms. But, so, the so, you know, so how, right now we're looking at, we're at an 80-20, we've pushed up maybe to an 80-25, 75-25, we went as high as 70-30, during the pandemic, but we're clearly headed to a 50-50 world where things will be as physical as they are digital, and the differences are going to matter less and less. And if anything, you're just going to improve the outcome of the other. So, so the idea is you,
Michael LeBlanc
Do worry in it, do you, you know, getting back to your first, our first part of the discussion, do you worry about small main street entrepreneurs in a 50-50 world?
Carl Boutet
Not really, because for the exact same reason, you just told, said you know that they can, they can now integrate eCommerce payments for next to nothing in their, I mean, it takes, it takes the wherewithal and the motivation, and the mindset to do it,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
And that I, I am worried about some of those afterwards.
Michael LeBlanc
I'm also worried about the big platforms that they need to use to,
Carl Boutet
Oh yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Get their message out. I mean, if they're
Carl Boutet
Yeah, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
Really become like utilities, I mean, you can't, you can't out, it's very hard to be more clever on Facebook, to be more clever with your ad.
Carl Boutet
100% yes,
Michael LeBlanc
You know.
Carl Boutet
Yeah, 100%. But, I think we're gonna see as we head to this 50-50, and you're right to point that out, because they're the ones that are stepping on the gas. And that's when I think when we're saying we're heading to a 50-50 world, it's not just because the consumer is heading there, it's because the most, the most, the most well capitalized corporations in the world are pushing us towards that. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
If you look at you know, look at the most the highest value caps in the world, you know, out of 10 you'll see that 8 of them are our technology companies that are, whose, whose business model is predicated on, on just getting more and more data,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
And makes it you know, more and more difficult for the small to compete it directly against that. But there are countering measures, look at our, I think the perfect example is Shopify, you know how there's, there's going to be the Ying and the Yang, and more and more. Google is, you know, is interesting because they're sort of the behemoth but they seem to be trying to play, play against the Amazon,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
And making it easier for Shopify or,
Michael LeBlanc
I worry that, I worried these guys act more as enablers than traffic drivers. They play a wonderful role in the ecosystem. But ultimately,
Carl Boutet
I agree. I like, I'm actually more concerned, I am less concerned about them, but you're right to point it out. Because especially for, for discovery. You, we're more and more dependent on those platforms,
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right,
Carl Boutet
and it's getting your used to be sort of the secret sauce and how long
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
Do you see got started with just knowing how to game the system,
Michael LeBlanc
That's right.
Carl Boutet
And you can't game them anymore. I'm more concerned at the other end. I'm more so I talk about discovery to delivery. You know, in how each piece of that gets, is impacted by, by this going to this 50-50 world, but the delivery piece is the one, because it's hard. And even the biggest players are sort of outsourcing that and, you know, my,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
My little play on the word 'instamart' with Instacart. I mean, you know how it's just, as it's just a switch away, if we just read it from 'C' to an 'M', and next thing you know, you're, you've been feeding, you know, what comes your largest competitor. And I have no idea if they're going to do it or not. If I was their shareholder, I would think they should, but,
Michael LeBlanc
Well, well, when not if you become our Prime Minister, please put all the resources you can into Canada Post. Because I think the, the, if I was to do, if I had a magic wand, and I could wave anything to happen for our indie main street vibrant retailers, it's got to be Canada Post.
Carl Boutet
Canada Post, yeah. And I mean, there's, I work a lot with Canada Post, and especially this past year and their Chief Operating Officer, who I knew when he was in Singapore, running DHL eComms. I mean, they have, they have Charles Brewer, they have they have an amazing team. They're putting a lot of resources,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
And trying to, I mean, it's a complicated situation, but you're doing, you know, small, medium, large size, they're trying to do everything they can you probably know people like Melanie (inaudible) here in Quebec.
Michael LeBlanc
Sure.
Carl Boutet
I mean, you know, they're knocking on all the doors, they are super present,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
But yeah, it's a good point.
Michael LeBlanc
They've got to have support, though, right?
Carl Boutet
I mean, we think about Mark Smith, our friend Mark, you know, and they've been very progressive, it's just that, but they need the support. And, it's, it's a tough business, you know, pivoting from business model they relied on stamps and envelope to go to this, you know,
Michael LeBlanc
You know, it's political will, right. I think they need, they need, and this is why I want you to take this on when you're Prime Minister is, is, is the political will to get them built five warehouses at the speed that Amazon does it.
Michael LeBlanc
Right, it's you know.
Carl Boutet
Yeah, yeah well, that
Carl Boutet
And that's what, that's what (inaudible) is one of my data points and even bring them the book that (inaudible) shared with the Canada Post events, they hit 2029 volume in May.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
You know, that was one of the big,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
The Great Acceleration, it was sort of a portal into the future where you sort of opened up this time machine and you saw,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Carl Boutet
10 years forward. And that was one of the data points that I use to justify why I use that analogy, because, because Charles would tell you that they will, they saw peak parcel volumes that they were anticipating for 2029.
Michael LeBlanc
Cyber Monday everyday.
Carl Boutet
Now they're playing catch up.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah. Well, I'm there, yeah, it's like Cyber Monday, every day. Well, listen, we're coming up on our, on our time. And the book is, 'The Great Acceleration: The Race to Retail Resilience'. Now, where can people get their hands on, on this great tomb of wisdom.
Carl Boutet
In it's ever evolving, an iterative tomb of wisdom that's going to sort of,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carl Boutet
Disguise the subscription service is available on my website, I decided consciously to, to sort of forego the, the other platforms because I want this to really be a two-way conversation. So, they can download the PDF for $12.99 from studiorx.ca. Studiorx.ca is my website. They can find me on LinkedIn quite easily as well. And I can point them in the right direction. And, if they, if they're really into physical copies, and they're really into wanting to understand all this and have probably an expense account to back it up, I have what, what I'm calling the VIP experience, which gets you a copy of the physical book, gives you one hour of my time, gives you the e-book gives you three months of this subscription for $249. Which, which is sort of my, my way of doing a physical book is saying there's, there's a there's a catch to it, and there's only 100 of them. So, if you're gonna be one of the 100 owners of my physical book. And you'll have you'll have an hour of my time to thank you in return for that.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, thank you for half hour of your time. I feel like I should, I should stroke you a big check, just for thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Carl Boutet
I'll just, just support me in my prime ministership, and we'll do okay.
Michael LeBlanc
You got my vote my friend you got my vote.
Carl Boutet
Thanks Michael.
Michael LeBlanc
Listen, well thanks Carl for joining me and and we'll get back in touch a bit later in the year and see how things evolve as, as we, as we get to back to whatever the new normal looks like, congratulations on your success. I barely have time to read books, let alone to write them. So
Carl Boutet
That's why it's gonna be a subscription. If you're going to be easier to keep up.
Michael LeBlanc
Easier to consume,
Carl Boutet
Thank you so much, Michael, I always really appreciate your support. You're always there and it means a lot to me. So I'm very grateful.
Michael LeBlanc
Thanks for tuning into today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure and follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you enjoy podcasts, so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating and review as it really helps us grow so that we continue to get amazing guests onto the show. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. And, if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc. co until next time, stay safe. Have a great week.