Unprecedented is a remarkable collection of exclusive, first-person stories on leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic from 29 chief executives at iconic Canadian companies. In this second and final part of a two-part series, I speak with the one and only Michael Medline, CEO of Sobeys, one of the retail leaders contributing to this necessary book for our times and the times ahead.
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Unprecedented is a remarkable collection of exclusive, first-person stories on leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic from 29 chief executives at iconic Canadian companies.
In this second and final part of a two-part series, I speak with the one and only Michael Medline, CEO of Sobeys, one of the retail leaders contributing to this necessary book for our times and the times ahead.
I take Michael back to the very early days of the COVID era, and then we progress forward through key management lessons learned for the future, and his perspectives around the future for modern business and what he calls “…a kinder and distinctly Canadian capitalism…”
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven’t already, be sure and click subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week, and check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and the Food Professor podcast. Last but not least, if you are into BBQ, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbeque, with new episodes each and every week!
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co! Have a safe week everyone!
About Michael Medline
Michael Medline was appointed President & Chief Executive Officer of Empire Company Limited and Sobeys Inc. in January 2017. Mr. Medline is a proven leader with a strong track record of success in Canadian retail. Mr. Medline has held senior retail leadership positions at Canadian Tire Corporation (CTC), including President & Chief Executive Officer of CTC. He began his career working with the Ontario Securities Commission, followed by two years practicing law with McCarthy Tétrault. He was Corporate Counsel for PepsiCo Canada before moving to Abitibi Consolidated Inc. where he held a variety of roles including Senior Vice President, Strategy and Corporate Development. Mr. Medline serves as a member of the Board of SickKids Foundation, The BlackNorth Initiative, Huron University College at Western University, The Grocery Foundation and The Sobey Foundation. He is past Chair of the Retail Council of Canada and was on the Board of Governors for Canada’s Sports Hall of Fame. Mr. Medline holds an MBA from Raymond A. Mason School of Business, William & Mary; an LL.B. from the University of Toronto; and a BA from Huron University College at Western University.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated on thought leadership panels worldwide. Michael was recently added to ReThink Retail’s prestigious Top 100 Global Retail Influencers for a second year in 2022.
Michael is also the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts, including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus the Remarkable Retail with author Steve Dennis, Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. Most recently, Michael launched Conversations with CommerceNext, a podcast focussed on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers - all available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music and all major podcast platforms. Michael is also the producer and host of the “Last Request Barbeque” channel on YouTube where he cooks meals to die for and influencer riches.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc. And this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:10
Unprecedented is a remarkable collection of exclusive first-person stories on leadership during the COVID 19 pandemic from 29 chief executives at iconic Canadian companies.
Michael LeBlanc 00:20
In this second and final part of a two-part series, I speak with the one and only Michael Medline, CEO of Sobeys, one of the retail leaders contributing to this necessary book for our times, and the times ahead.
Michael LeBlanc 00:30
I take Michael back to the very early days of the COVID era. And then we progress forward through key management lessons learned for the future, and his perspectives around the future for modern business and what he calls, "a kinder and distinctly Canadian capitalism".
Michael LeBlanc 00:43
Let's listen in now.
Well, Michael, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing this afternoon?
Michael Medline 00:48
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on.
Michael LeBlanc 00:50
Well, it's such a treat. You and I have known each other. We've met a few times more than a few times at the Retail Council of Canada. And now I get to have you on the podcast. So welcome, welcome.
Michael Medline 01:00
Good being here. You've, you've got a great voice for podcasts.
Michael LeBlanc 01:03
Thank you. All right. Well, let's jump right in. First of all, for the folks who are international, there are not many Canadians who wouldn't have heard the name or certainly wouldn't know, would know Sobeys. But for the international audience, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and what you do at, at Empire.
Michael Medline 01:21
You know, I, I, I made a career mistake in the beginning was a lawyer. And then I decided to go into business. And I haven't looked back. I've, I've loved it and I've been I, I, I claim, my claim to fame, which I don't even know if it's true is that I'm the only person to lead a hard good soft goods at a grocery company. Anyone on the line who, who, who, who has another credit to that I apologize, and they can call me.
Michael LeBlanc 01:45
Good trifecta you, you've done the trifecta, that's for sure.
Michael Medline 01:48
Yeah and I always wanted to do grocery, because grocers always looked down their nose on hard goods and soft goods retailers, because they said, look, our stuff can go bad and die. And it's much harder. But they're unbelievable similarities in retail between, between the three areas. Yeah, and I was just going say I've been, I've been at Empire Company and Sobeys, which we have a lot of banners and I'm not going to repeat them all on here for five and a half years and loved every minute of it.
Michael LeBlanc 02:14
And, and you, you went to Sobeys at a particular time, and we should call it Empire, I guess most people know Sobeys, but Empire is the kind of the broader company, based in Stellarton, that under which is the umbrella of all these companies. So, tell us just a little bit about the scope and scale of the business again, just for some context for those?
Michael Medline 02:31
Yeah, it's, it's a big business like a lot of big grocers. We're the second largest retailer in the country. And we have about 2000 retail outlets, and we have businesses, mostly grocery, right, but, but fuel, pharmacy, liquor, and, and we, we also recently purchased or partnered with Farm Boy and Longo's, -
Michael LeBlanc 2:53
yeah, -
Michael Medline 02:54
over the last few years. So, we, we continue to get bigger and better. And, and but it's, it's a very, very large company. And also, we've added on the Ocado partnership, and we have the best e-, eCommerce grocery in the country and our Voila platform that we continue to grow.
Michael LeBlanc 03:15
Yeah, we're going to talk about that a little bit later. And, and you know what that was like, because you'd already broken ground on Voila and, and done the deal, but then, then COVID happened. So, then that was a whole other thing. And, hey listen, you know, I'm, I'm talking to you, I am actually live at the Restaurants Canada trade show and, and I'm seeing on the floor. It's very, you know, you mentioned Farm Boy and Farm Boy has got that kind of grocer end thing going amazing pizza oven. I'm seeing I'm seeing lots of, you know, plant-based foods, lots of innovated, innovative foods from across Canada, lots of automation. Are you seeing the same thing in, in your side of the business, so to speak? They're very, they're close cousins, of course, but are you seeing those same kinds of things presented to the merchants and, and demanded from or asked for from customers?
Michael Medline 03:55
Yeah, I think that we're going to see, I think we're seeing now innovation emerging even stronger than before the pandemic, but during, during COVID, we just had, you know, everyone just tried to do their business and go along. But I'm seeing huge growth in, in innovative products and services. And the only concern I have is that some of these services are, are to take out people out of the stores. And we got to be really careful with that. Because I think people are the key to serving customers obviously. And, and yeah, innovation, innovations cool in the store, but it's our people who before, during and after the pandemic have, have served Canadians and, and they do the best job. So, we're very cautious in terms of because it's a tight labor market, and we face that, but boy, are we ever looking for good people. And if there are ways to make their jobs easier and better than we should certainly are looking for that innovation.
Michael LeBlanc 04:51
I had the opportunity to talk to Jeff York who actually I went to high school with a little fun factoid from Farm Boy. And we were talking about, you know, that greeting at the checkout, right that Human greeting that the human greeting at the cheese stand, like how important that was, particularly, I think in grocery. And let's talk about. So, we're here actually to talk, we've already the listeners would have already had the opportunity to hear my interview with one of the co-authors, Andrew Willis from Unprecedented Canada's Top CEOs on Leadership During COVID-19.
Michael LeBlanc 05:18
So, before tou-, we kind of jump in, and what your thoughts were and what you articulated in, in your piece, how did you get involved in the project? What, you know, why did you decide to do it? You're, you're, you're not someone who has a lot of free time with a big sprawling enterprise? Why did it, it appealed to you something you should participate in?
Michael Medline 05:34
Well, I, I you know, it's a funny story about that and I'll get to that. But I think two reasons. One, is I'm I, I really have a lot of respect for Steve Mayer and Andrew Willis, who, who co-produced the book co-authored it, and so when they asked, I, I probably wasn't going to say no. The second reason is that I think that at the back, you know, the back stages of the pandemic, and even going on now that there's a misunderstanding of, of capitalism and the corporate, corporation’s role throughout the pandemic, and in society in general. And so, I thought, you know, and maybe this will have a very little effect on that. But any effect we could have, would be would be important, because I think it's completely misrepresented. And it was funny, because I, I had already really written the chapter in a way, I can't even remember how far into the pandemic but, it had been about 10 or 11 months into the pandemic. I couldn't get into Atlantic Canada to see our, our great my great teammates and the Sobeys family and our great chairman, Jim Dixon, and I couldn't see our stores. And I couldn't feel the Atlantic region, because we had the Atlantic bubble up,
Michael LeBlanc 6:46
Right, right.
Michael Medline 06:47
And, and so then I, I, I thought to myself, well, I have got to get out there. So, I went in and quarantined for two weeks and did my work, even though I wasn't sick or anything like that. But there was a bubble of people if you remember, and I decided I had nothing to do at night other than watch sports, and which I did. And I decided to write my memoirs up to that moment, just for my own sake, just for my own sake, on the on our experiences at Empire and my personal experiences and how proud I was of our people, especially our great leaders, in-store and, and frontline leaders. And so, I wrote that out. And then we got this request from Steve and Andrew and I up to do Unprecedented. And so I handed over my, my rough notes to our great Jacqueline Weatherby, who is Head of Communications, she looked at them and said, there's a few paragraphs you should never have in print, there, there because of they're, they're a little too stark in terms of your feelings on certain things about parliamentary inquiries and things.
Michael LeBlanc 07:49
Yeah, (crossover talk), that was that was a surrealistic experience for all of us. I'm sure it was for you?
Michael Medline 07:53
Yeah, that was, that was a bizarro world for me. And so, but it didn't take much, and, and Jacqueline helped me edit it. And, and we published the chapter. And I think that, you know, I, I've read through the other chapters by other CEOs, and I think there's com-, coma-, commonality. And I think, but I, I think there is a lot to learn, I, I learned a lot reading about it, about others. And, and as I said, I, I think that, look not all companies distinguish themselves. I'm not going to say they did, -
Michael LeBlanc 08:23
yeah, -
Michael Medline 08:24
but so many did. So many did.
Michael LeBlanc 08:27
You know, one of the one of my last questions for Andrew, when I interviewed him about the book, as I said, you know, after going through this journey and listening to folks like yourself, does it change your reporting? Do you have a, a different perspective on things and, and, and he talked about how he had a, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but he basically had a greater appreciation for how complex, you know, business is, how many inner how many things need to go right, for something as simple as, you know, a jug of milk to show up on a shelf? So, I think, you know, I think I think you've, I think collectively, you've all achieved that from a pretty experienced veteran business writer. So, I think that's a in and of itself is pretty good, I think.
Michael Medline 09:04
I think. Well, that's really nice to hear.
Michael LeBlanc 09:06
Let's rewind back to the really early days as a COVID crisis. I mean, I was there as, as you know, I write a report for Retail Council, so I had the privilege you know, every quarter talking to a lot of CEOs and, and already the you know, the Spidey senses were tingling for everybody it, it was kind of (inaudible), it was more a little bit like, boy, this would be not so good in supply chain and, and boy, the tourists aren't going to come here and, and then when did it start to dawn on you because you have similar connections a vast, you know, a vast array of, of vendors and, and inputs. When did it start to dawn on you the kind of order of magnitude of, of what we're about to under-, undergo?
Michael Medline 09:42
It was pretty early I, I think that (inaudible), that we were, we were watching China with great apprehension, but you know, we were all hoping that this would be contained and we didn't really know too much and, and there wasn't a lot of information, but we were concerned. Then you saw what was going on in Italy and then you know, as you knew it's creeping toward us and you saw New York. But so, we declared there was some, some ridiculous debate we had about whether this was a state of emergency for the company, which would invoke all sorts of protocols including, (crossover talk), like daily meetings, -
Michael LeBlanc 10:15
You have to go in a bunker, right? You would have to go underground bunker or something, right?
Michael Medline 10:19
Well actually did work out of a basement for too long a period of time, but and then we declared it very, very early and put great leaders in charge. But for me what it really came with, you know, for me being a sports fan, what really happened was when Rudy Gobert you know, after his game with the Raptors got pulled off and NBA shut down, then all the pro-sports leagues shut down that was, -
Michael LeBlanc 10:41
That's serious. Now, it's serious, now it's serious, -
Michael Medline 10:43
Now we have nothing. Now I've got nothing to watch. And, and boy, this is real. And but you know, in our business it wasn't, we weren't ever going to close down.
Michael LeBlanc 10:51
Right, right.
Michael Medline 10:52
Although we were, I, I think that there is a lack of understanding how close we were maybe and, and we never hit anything, but we were close to the edge on supply chain. And we were close to the edge in terms of PPE, and you go, how could that be, there wasn't enough di-, disinfectant, and so going to go around. And we have certain obvious standards that we can't operate a store without those. And you know, who came to our rescue, businesses that were in trouble and had to close their doors like Cineplex and, and MLSE, which those of you and in other countries among the Leafs and the Raptors among other teams, and we were able to beg and borrow from other companies to be able to get through very tough times until we could get our, the output that we needed. And that, that was a stunning revelation to see how even, you know, imagine running Cineplex and you're just closed down and you don't know what's going to happen. And you're on the phone with me and helping out that will stick with me forever.
Michael LeBlanc 11:58
Yeah, so interesting. I mean, I, I had a long, great discussion with Roger Martin, who you might remember from Rotman? (Crossover talk) Well, he's got a, you know, as, as you might know, he's got a great book, and he, and he posits that we've come too close to just in time, right, that we're now, you know, a million dollars of storage cost on PPE would have saved us a billion dollars of flights kind of too close to the line. You know, when it when it you know, when it, it seemed to me that there is a big point at which I was more comfortable that we were going to get through it on the food side, when I know the Retail Council was involved in making sure the borders would stay open, right, the flow of goods. Was that a big milestone for you as well?
Michael Medline 12:34
Yeah, yeah, it sounds crazy now, but our, our leaders and Jacqueline and I spent so much time talking to the gove-, to government, and by the way, so much of public health and governments were so helpful that the premiers and the provinces and they're doing everything they could do, but, you know, they not everyone has an appreciation for every aspect of your own business, right. And I, looks like, I don't have appreciation for someone else's business. And so. a lot of education had to go into, you know, those borders shut and it's winter. There's no fresh fruit, there's no, there's no fruit, there's no vegetables. And that sounds unbelievable but, but we were worried at the time that certain decisions would be made out of out of prudence, okay, I'm not saying any bad intent that could really hurt Canadians.
Michael LeBlanc 13:25
Yeah, they got unintended consequences, right? (Crossover talk), -
Michael Medline 13:28
Oh, yeah, when you don't understand things and you start messing with them. But and I think that, you know, there were some decisions that, you know, in retrospect, we're kind of silly and, and, and probably didn't allow businesses to go, but some of the decisions like allowing us to deliver products to our stores, at hours that we normally wouldn't be able to do or and, and, and just the support we had, from Public Health and, and from the, and from the provinces across the country, really helped us helped us in the end, it wasn't an impediment to doing business. And I, I think we all learned a lot about each other and our appreciation, and there's certain parts of government and politics, I'm, I'm quick to, to judge, but there were a lot of great parts of it. And I hope that, you know, that, that how our business operates and how business and, and, and government can, you know, be judges of each other but still try to work together for the good of Canadians. I, I hope to, to God that continues.
Michael LeBlanc 14:25
Yeah, no kidding and, and you talk about Plexiglas? I, I often joke that it would have been the only good job to have, was the Plexiglas salesperson you, you guys you lifted heaven and you must have made a quick decision on that because it just started happening, right you real-, you talked about that in the book. So, share a little bit about that particular story because I think it illustrates kind of a point I wanted to get to which is you know, sometimes in large companies decision making is complex, but it seemed to be very streamline and, and I've talked to CEOs said boy, I, I, I don't miss the COVID era, the heat of it, but I do wish that we continue with that agility around decision making, like how, how fast did you, di-, di-, did it surprise you that the organization could galvanize itself that quickly?
Michael Medline 15:07
Yes, yes it did. Yes, and, and I do. And you know, we challenge each other now, how can we could do that two years ago? And why is it taking so long? And then you know, we say, well, there's risk with process.
Michael LeBlanc 15:18
Yeah, right, right, -
Michael Medline 15:19
But here, we had nowhere close to 100% data, and we were making lightning quick decisions. And we were making them for the right priorities. And I can't think of too many decisions we made that I, I have any regrets for. And Plexiglas is kind of the one I use as an example. Because, well, what's more Canadian than Plexiglas, right? Like, like we don't think of, you know, the, the, you know, the Plexiglas in the hockey arenas. And what's so funny, you just said that you wish you could be Plexiglas, but when so I'm on a, I'm on a call with global grocery leaders. And just not a lot of them, like six or eight of them. And it's hard to understand everyone's accents. And the lines were bad at that time. And, and suddenly, I hear this person from Italy talking about Plexiglas, so it wasn't like wasn't my idea. We're, we're not proud, retail we steal good ideas. And, and, and, and I thought, jeez, that is, that's good, that could really work. And before the call hung up, I was I was texting, as, as I, I often do too often on calls. And, and I texted our team, and I said, we're going to do this and now let's do it. And we had no idea of the cost or the logistics, and we called a Plexiglas company, which had just shut their doors the day before, because who was buying Plexiglas?
Michael Medline 16:42
Yeah, we're done,
Michael Medline 16:43
They reopened. And for a very short period of time, we cornered the market on plexiglass. And we got we bought every piece of Plexiglas there was, -
Michael LeBlanc 16:51
Crazy story, right.
Michael Medline 16:53
The next day, within 24 hours, we had set it up in a, in s couple of stores in, in the GTA, so that we could see it, it was great, our people felt safer, the customers felt safer. And we rolled it in three weeks we had everywhere in the country, including putting Plexiglas on, on planes to get to Newfoundland, Western Canada, where there was a Plexiglas shortage. And, and if we helped, you know, if we help people not get sick or so maybe a few people not get really sick, it was all the while worth it. I now know what it cost and I know but who cared. It was we weren't in it for money or profits back then we were we were an essential service and continue to be so, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:36
And, and fed the nation. COVID has been called "the great accelerator", I guess the poster child for that is certainly eCommerce. And, and within that grocery eCommerce, now you'd already broken ground on Voila. But I talked about (inaudible) that with Sylvain Charlebois and I have a podcast we had Sarah Joyce on the podcast, we talked about it and this was pre-, pre-COVID. So, the, the wheels were already in motion. But then suddenly, you had to not just stand that up, make big decisions and accelerate it, talk about that experience about rising to that?
Michael Medline 18:07
Yeah, and I, I, I take very low credit for that. That's the team at Voila, and, and everyone's supporting them here at, at, at our company and the great leadership of Sarah Joyce, I would say that it was very difficult to get something off the ground, while, while in the total (inaudible) and depths of the biggest public health crisis I hope we'll ever face. And. and Sarah and her team just, just put their heads down. And, and, and w-, we opened it in that dark period began early, and, and not at the same standard we wanted to open up to be honest, because we could serve Canadians and, and so right now, you know, while I was running around 20,000 skews in, in, in the Ontario region it, it'll get it'll get up above 30,000. But when we opened it was 7000. But and so it wasn't we wouldn't open with 7000 normally, but those 7000 skews could feed a lot of people. And they were the skews that m-, most people were looking for and so we opened and with and I can't remember any operational issues that these people somehow opened this with no operational issues and with customer satisfaction scores that are the highest I've ever seen. So, you know, and they continue to be so you know, you know, if you're listening to this, you should try it them all out. But boy, at the beginning of the pandemic, that was that was really something and was a credit to our team.
Michael LeBlanc 19:37
And it's for a different discussion maybe in a different episode. But you, you once described that as one of those very rare projects that you just greenlit almost right away and now, you're expanding. I, I just I was in Montreal at the SIAL show. And I drove by a big warehouse, is that the Voila warehouse in Montreal.
Michael Medline 19:53
Yeah, yeah, we can't, we can't. We're expanding as quickly as we can. I've never seen an answer like the Ocada answer, which is why every country, the retailer's bid to get it, and negotiate that they're the ones that Ocado wants to partner with. And so, you know, many, many countries already tied up including France, United States, Great Britain, and Asian countries. But yeah, that's something. I just don't know what Plan B is other than store pick. And, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:20
Yeah.
Michael Medline 20:21
You know, I'm going to throw some bouquets, which is our competitors did a great job, meeting the needs of Canadians throughout the crisis as well. And it wasn't just Empire Company and Sobeys. Our competitors did a superb job. I thought the industry was phenomenal. And that the supplier partners who had it the worst, I think, and the transportation companies, it just showed you that the whole thing could work. It was hanging by a thread, but it was, it hung. And but it's not, I'm, I'm not just saying Empire did a good job. I think every almost everyone did a great job to support Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 20:57
It's a bit of an artificial construct here for you. But I'm a fan of Dan Pink, and he's got a book called, The Power of Regret. Do you have any regrets from that time? Any decisions that you said, you know, looking back, you would have done something, something different to knowing? I guess it's, it's, it' an artificial construct? Because knowing now, you know, knowing that what you know, now is just completely artificial, but anything you would have done differently?
Michael Medline 21:20
No, I mean, that sounds, you know, and I do understand "the power of regret" and I do think back on things in my career life that could have done better. And so, I'm not against regret or looking back. I just don't know how we could have done more, especially in the darkest days. And yeah, they're things you could have done a little better. Or maybe a day quicker, I'd say the, if I have regrets at all. It's that we, and it's more of a wish or concern, is that, like you mentioned earlier is that why can't we continue to, you know, in the right way, unify rather than divide? Why can't we work better together, instead of carping all the time at each other or trying to steal from each other as pie instead of making the pie bigger for Canadians
Michael LeBlanc 22:15
Was it, it is, was that the power of a I mean, it struck me that everyone had during COVID a unifying mission, right? We there's generally everyone was, r-, ro-, you know, rowing in the same direction, right, because everyone had the mission and I feel like that's starting to slip.
Michael Medline 22:30
Yeah, I think I think that you always think that things are going to change and some change for the better and change for good. And I do think that a lot of good came out of that I do believe that Canadian companies are, will, will be better run now. That they'll think of society in a greater way, and that they'll be more agile. And, you know, I'll give you an example. Instead of being general. We had some terrible catastrophes and weather events, especially in Canada, you know, over the last number in the last year, especially. And if you look at what happened in British Columbia, the floods are, where the fires in different spots, and all the learnings we had from the beginning of the pandemic and the new systems and processes and disciplines we put in, helped us get through that and be able to supply to the communities in need. We, I don't think we could have done that, without having changed the way we do business. So, I think we're better off today.
Michael LeBlanc 23:28
And more and more resilience. And I am thinking of organizational resilience, right? I mean, it, it feels like, you know, we clearly don't know what can come next. COVID taught us that. But I guess the idea is the difference between how well you're planned out, and how agile you can be in the face of you know, whatever comes next, right?
Michael Medline 23:47
Yeah, I, I, I, I completely agree with that. And I think that the leaders who have had to go through that, and, and especially I, I, I think that the younger people in the company, and the younger leaders are going to be far better than the current crop like me, because of what they had to see and learn and how they've had to work together as a team. And I think we got great, great leaders going to be coming up who will back to where they would have been forged.
Michael LeBlanc 24:17
Right, right.
Michael Medline 24:18
And that's going to make them very, very strong.
Michael LeBlanc 24:20
It's a good segue to my last question, and, and you spend the last part of your, your part of the book talking about a kinder and distinctly Canadian capitalism. So, you, you kind of talk about your philosophy and you’re thinking around that. So, tal-, share that with you because share that with us because it's you had talked about in the media and, and there's lots going on around relations between vendors and retailers. That's an ongoing dynamic, but you have you've got some of your own perspectives that you share in the book and, and talk about that a little bit.
Michael Medline 24:48
Yeah, I think I think there's two sides to this. One is that business today does not re-, resemble business when I was coming up, which was almost shareholders only, and I'm not saying shareholders are important, they're incredibly important, but it was shareholders only and maximize profit. And, you know, if you've everything under the law and all that, and it's not like that anymore, and, and I and, and I think that I know that the leaders I speak to, we don't talk about how much EPS they had or what their cash flow was, we talked about issues like sustainability, we talked about VMI, we talked about how to how to treat teammates, and, and also, we you, you want successful companies that make a lot of money so, they can hire Canadians, spend money and give to philanthropic causes. So, there's the two sides are, we want really kinder companies that are incredibly successful. And I think those two things actually will go together if they do don't already.
But then on the other side, I see a demon-, demonization in some ranks of, of politicians or the media or other commentators, which have no have no basis and fact, about how companies can carry themselves, but they make points and maybe they get some readers. But I think it's very, very damaging. And I think that most jobs and most of, of the pensions people rely on and how they afford houses and to send their kids to school and afford to put money in a tank of gas when it can cost $200 today, that if the companies can, are helping and can help, and companies don't do everything perfect, I'm not going to be (inaudible) you know, played on that guitar. But I do believe that this demonization is very, very nasty and very bad and destructive.
And that's, and that goes back to my regret, which is let's unify instead of destroying, while at the same time holding each other accountable. I'm pretty strong on this. I, I saw that the, the capitalism I see today, not although not perfect, can head in the right direction. Okay. But it doesn't bear any resemblance to some of these speaking points that people like to use. And I've, 've been around the block, I'm not naive. I know what goes on.
Michael LeBlanc 27:11
I mean, there is there is, -
Michael Medline 27:12
it can be damaging, it could very damaging.
Michael LeBlanc 27:14
I mean, there is some narrative around, you know, groceries, where they had some great results, great sales, through hard work, because, you know, the food service business had shut down. And that resulted in a bunch of things. And I think we continue to see that narrative play out in terms of everything from compensation to, you know profits, right? And, and you still you, you read about that every day almost in the paper. So that, that it seems, -
Michael Medline 27:37
I think, and, and some of it2s a good argument, we should talk about it, we should talk about how, how Canadians are compensated, and we should talk about inflation, and we should talk about supply chain stuff (inaudible) and, and, and we should hold each other accountable. And I could tell you, I hold myself and, and our group accountable, at the same time to simplify it to a place where, where you knowingly are putting the facts out there is, is it, it doesn't help Canadians and, and I think that, that we need great ethical, law abiding, socially conscious companies, and that, that makes up a great employer and makes up a big part of our economy in our, in our, in our country. And, and I but I just don't I don't like you know, I, I try not to slander others. So, I don't like when whole businesses are slandered. So, -
Michael LeBlanc 28:34
I think the last the last point, I mean, you know, as you as you craft this within your organization and, and steer the organization, not everyone may play by the same sense of rules of capitalism beyond the, the legal limits. Are you experiencing some of that? Or what's your what's your forecast? There's a lot of energy around vendor relationships these days, you know, so how are you, how are you thinking about that?
Michael Medline 28:56
Yeah, you know, and I reserve the right to say, whatever is on my mind. So, I did and, and, and I saw at the beginning of COVID, especially and then for two years, I saw what, what most people call vendors, I call supplier partners. What and are and are, you know, who transports the goods. I saw them step up and partner with us in a way that I'd never seen before. And I found it off putting, to put it mildly that the minute that things looked like they were going to normalize, and by the way, they weren't normalized, -
Michael Medline 29:32
It's still not, -
Michael Medline 29:33
That, that there was that again, the rank or continued between the fire partners and, and retailers and I'm all for driving a hard bargain. I'm a believer in business principles. But I also believe that you got to make the pie better and by trying to trying to hurt every stage of the supply chain other than yourself, including farmers, families, transportation companies, Mom and Pops, and, and especially are great supplier partners. It is not good for the industry and it puts a black eye on us. And so unfortunately, I, I, I think we, you know, unfortunately, because we can't govern ourselves without some rules, we need some rules put in place where we can negotiate and, and be tough but fair, but that, that people are treated with respect and, and given notice of changes rather than bully tactics, which I'm not crazy about in any way shape or form.
Michael LeBlanc 30:34
Well, it's a it's an interesting time supply chain supply challenges are certainly not over COVID. It's not over. So, the challenges continue. But thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. I mean, the book once again, is Unprecedented Canada's Top 50, sorry, Canada's Top CEOs on Leadership During COVID-19. You've got a chapter in that as to many of your colleagues. Michael, great to speak with you. Thanks to you. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast and, and sharing your insights and it was great to hear your voice and, and catch up as well.
Michael Medline 31:02
Thank you very enjoyable. Appreciate it.
Michael LeBlanc 31:04
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure and click and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week.
Michael LeBlanc 31:14
And check out my other retail industry media properties, the Remarkable Retail podcast, Conversations with CommerceNext podcast and The Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 31:24
Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my all new, YouTube barbecue show Last Request Barbecue with new episodes each and every week. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc and Company & Maven Media.
Michael LeBlanc 31:38
And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
Have a safe week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
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