When brands are preparing to enter Chinese markets, Ashley Dudarenok tells them to “assume nothing.” Ashley, the founder of China-based social media marketing firms Alarice and ChoZan, reminds companies to not underestimate the complexity of the nation’s market. When it comes to reaching consumers in China, she suggests that foreign KPI’s, benchmarks and even best-selling product lines are left behind.
Welcome to the The Voice of Retail , I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
When brands are preparing to enter Chinese markets, Ashley Dudarenok tells them to “assume nothing.”
Ashley, the founder of China-based social media marketing firms Alarice and ChoZan, reminds companies to not underestimate the complexity of the nation’s market. When it comes to reaching consumers in China, she suggests that foreign KPI’s, benchmarks and even best-selling product lines are left behind.
In this episode of The Voice of Retail podcast, I sit down with fellow RETHINK Retail Top 100 Global Influencer Ashley Dudarenok to talk about the vast and digitally-centred niches within China’s retail market.
Ashley sheds light on how the pandemic has shaped the retail marketing space, from ageing populations to revenge consumption. We explore digital marketing calendars that are oriented around multi-day festivals, livestreaming in retail and insights on trends that might cross over to North American markets.
Ashley notes that large markets like that of China’s, can be a double-edged sword. As the potential to reach new customers increases, so does the opportunity for failure - especially if your marketing strategy is out of touch.
*******
Thanks for tuning into today’s episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss out on the latest episodes, industry news, and insights. If you enjoyed this episode please consider leaving a rating and review, as it really helps us grow so that we can continue getting amazing guests on the show.
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co!
Until next time, stay safe and have a great week!
Ashley Dudarenok 艾熙丽
🇨🇳 I'm a China watcher, 3-time Amazon bestselling author, global keynote speaker, vlogger, podcaster, media contributor and female leadership spokesperson. 👇👇👇
I'm the founder of:
🇨🇳 Chinese social media agency Alarice (alarice.com.hk)
🇨🇳 China digital academy ChoZan (chozan.co)
🔥FIRE self-development and mentorship program for professionals and entrepreneurs (firebyashley.com)
I've been named
🚀 LinkedIn Top Voice in Marketing
🚀 “Guru on Digital Marketing and Fast-evolving Trends in China” by Thinkers50
🚀 Young Business Leader Of The Year 2021 by IPWS, Women Leadership Award
🚀 Asia's Top 25 Innovator by the Holmes Report
🚀 Top 20 Visionaries of the Media & Technology by Adello Magazine
🚀 World’s Top 100 Retail Influencers by RETHINK Retail
🚀 100 B2B Thought Leaders To Follow in 2021 by Thinkers360
I am a member of:
✌️Alibaba's Global Influencer Entourage 2017-2021
✌️JD's Global China Experts Group 2018-2021
✌️I also worked directly with a Tencent co-founder to conquer Western social media from 2017 to 2019.
I'm an Amazon bestselling author of three books:
📖 Unlocking the World’s Largest E-Market: A Guide to Selling on Chinese Social Media
📖 Digital China: Working with Bloggers, Influencers and KOLs, and
📖 New Retail: Born in China, Going Global
I’m a global keynote speaker and masterclass facilitator. My topics include:
🚀 Modern Chinese Consumers
🚀 China’s Digital Marketing
🚀 China's New Retail and Technology
Since 2016, I've spoken at over 150 events across the globe for companies such as BMW, Disney, Shangri-La, Deutsche Bundesbank, Richemont, Li & Fung, Hang Lung Properties, Manulife, TEDx and many others.
🎥 I run the world’s #1 YouTube business vlog about the China market, consumers and social media at www.youtube.com/c/AshleyTalksChina.
🤓 I’m a regularly contributing to media such as TechNode, Jing Daily, The Next Web and the SCMP. I was featured on the BBC, Forbes, Bloomberg, CGTN, the WSJ, CNBC, WIRED, Huffington Post, Asia Times, HKET, Ming Pao and many others.
🎙 I’m the host of the AshleyTalks Podcast, where I interview top thought leaders from across Asia about entrepreneurship, marketing, women in business, China, tech and more.
📚 I’ve given lectures at HKU Space and done talks at the China Business Centre of Hong Kong PolyU and the National University of Singapore Business School.
#ashleytalks #china #digitalmarketing #socialmedia
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
When brands are preparing to enter Chinese markets, Ashley Dudarenok tells them to assume nothing.
Ashley, the founder of China based social media marketing firms, Alarice and ChoZan, reminds companies not to underestimate the complexity of the nation's market. When it comes to reaching consumers in China, she suggests that foreign KPIs, benchmarks and even best-selling product lines be left behind.
In this episode of The Voice of Retail podcast, I sit down with fellow RETHINK Retail Top 100 Global Influencer, Ashley Dudarenok, to talk about the vast and digitally centered niches within China's retail market.
Ashley sheds light on how the pandemic has shaped the retail marketing space, from aging populations to revenge consumption. We explore digital marketing calendars that are oriented around multi-day festivals, livestreaming in retail and insights on trends that might crossover into North American markets.
Ashley Dudarenok
Very few brands are participating in all of those events because it's,
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Ashley Dudarenok
It's very expensive, budget wise. You need to advertise both inside the platform and outside the platform. You need to create a lot of content, you need to also provide benefits and discounts.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's listen in now.
Ashley, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast. How are you doing this morning?
Ashley Dudarenok
I'm doing fantastic. Thank you so much for having me, Michael.
Michael LeBlanc
Hey, it's my pleasure. And here it's in the evening where you are in the morning. I believe you're in Hong Kong, is that correct?
Ashley Dudarenok
That's correct.
Michael LeBlanc
All right, so the math is easy for me, it's just 12 hours, so it's one of the ones I actually kind of consistently get right.
Well, listen, you're going to be on the mainstage at Retail Council of Canada's upcoming store conference in September, and you and I share something in common. We're both on RETHINK Retail's Top 100 Global Influencers. Though I think you're a little more global than I am. You're in Hong Kong, I'm in Toronto.
But you know, typically when I interview and chat with people, the first part is a little bit about them. And, I'm looking at your background and all your accomplishments. We could have a podcast just about what you, all your accomplishments and what you've been doing and all the things you do. But, let's boil it down and start there. Tell us about yourself. Give us some background. How did you get to be where you are? And let's start there.
Ashley Dudarenok
Well, you are too kind Michael, a really great introduction. I'm all blushing here. Yeah, so I was born in the Soviet Union and lost years of it. And very close to the China border, in fact. My hometown is about one hour drive from mainland China's Heilongjiang Province. And yes, I studied abroad since early on. And, when I was 17, and moved to mainland China, and that's where my fascination with the country also began. I did not move to China as a you know, kung fu lover or, you know, noodles lover, like many other people back in the day used to usually, usually had some connection with the country or the region, and then he would relocate to the country. But I basically went there because of other reasons.
I had a boyfriend at a time, that's Chinese. And I felt it was fantastic to go to China together. And, I observed, I was very lucky that the time was when exactly China, they basically started building this digital ecosystems and started building their social media platforms. And, suddenly, you know, internet became cheap, and everybody was on smartphones, doesn't matter whether you were a university professor, or you know, a guy on the street that helps you carry things from supermarket to home for three RMB everybody had a smartphone. And it was incredible to watch that.
And that's where I also completed my education. I started business and economics. And I felt that wow, this is the place that's really going places. And, I would like to stay connected with this market, understanding its people, understanding it's also uniqueness. And of course, being extremely excited to see how the eCommerce and also marketing landscape,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Ashley Dudarenok
Has been shaped in the country.
Michael LeBlanc
It's such a, you know, it's funny, when you sit sometimes in North America, you say, help me understand the China customer, but it is a vast nation.
Ashley Dudarenok
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
I'm sure it's a vast oversimplification to say, you know, help me understand the customer. We're gonna do our best today to kind of have a bit of an overview, but I'm sure that's both a challenge and an opportunity that you know, different regions and different parts of even, you know, different languages, right, different dialects across what is a super vast nation. Yeah,
Ashley Dudarenok
Absolutely. And, China has, well, obviously still population wise, the largest city, country in the world, and China has huge regional differences. That is why there is indeed no one unique China consumer that we can kind of target, or when we talk about broad strokes, like middle class, what is China's middle class, or China's Gen Z. I mean, they are not the same and in China, the north and the south have a huge difference as well. So, the North is traditionally a bit less prosperous, and South is a lot more prosperous. And attitudes towards a lot of things are also extremely different. So, the culture, the people, their attitudes are all different.
But when talking about China, a lot of people right now, obviously like it the rest of the world looking into millennials, Gen Z's, at the same time, there is silver head generation in China. So, China is aging at a very fast pace. So, everybody's really interested. Because the attitude toward your retirement and what do you do, you don't just look,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Ashley Dudarenok
After your grandkids, but have so many other options. So, these people have the money and they are changing the country's operations very significantly right now. And, they are very digital, they are really, really cool. There's, of course, this female empowerment angle in China that is very, very strong. Like in the rest of the world. There are tons of pet lovers. So, there are also these niche groups across the country related to pets. There are, of course lower tier city young people, or lower tier cities, again, silver head generation that is extremely unique. And, they constitute about 60%, of Chinese netizens, that you still need to focus on,
Michael LeBlanc
Wow.
Ashley Dudarenok
China's singles on all of that.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I remember I was at a panel, on a panel and one of my fellow speakers said, 'Anything you hear about China is true'. And he was just saying,
Ashley Dudarenok
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Like, it's such a vast nation with so many things going on that you can hear a lot of different things and you know, you talk about niches, but I'm sure your niches are in the millions. So, I guess volume and scale is one of the big differences in my mind.
Let's talk about Alarice is it? Is that your agency is that,
Ashley Dudarenok
Alarice.
Michael LeBlanc
Am I pronouncing?
Ashley Dudarenok
Yes,
Michael LeBlanc
Alarice, yeah, let's talk about that. What do you, what do you do? Talk about when you established it, and what services you offer. I see a roster of impressive roster of clients from, from retailers to brands, but unpack that for me a bit.
Ashley Dudarenok
Yeah, absolutely. So, going back to that comment that one of your friends did on the panel, I would say, Yes, everything you hear about China is true, comma, everything you hear about China is false. That would be a more accurate statement. So, do not take what you hear, you know, as is, you really need to understand it's a very complex market. And, that complexity here cannot be underestimated. So, I would make that statement even more kind of complete by adding the second part.
In terms of Alarice, actually, 10 years ago, I opened an agency and it was focused on China and wanted to do something with China. But then it took me some time to focus on, okay, digital, but then within digital what? And, within a year, we found this positioning, which is essentially social media focus. And, in China Indeed, for the past 10 years, you know, the social media marketing, the focus on content, the focus on content creators has become so apparent.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Ashley Dudarenok
And if there is one market where it's exciting to be in the marketing field beyond compare, I believe that this is China. The same is true for eCommerce and retail in general, because things are moving so fast. And, at the same time, there are so many customers that are actually implementing right and using your, your, be it, a new tech feature or using your mini programs, if you're promoting within a certain ecosystem. That's just the scale that definitely carries you as a brand, or a creator, or an agency. So yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
I guess that scale can carry you for ill, or you know, for good or for ill if you make some mistakes, because the scale is so bad. And, you know, I've read of some missteps that brands have made. And, it has tremendous application, or a tremendous impact, right, because of the, again, the scale, it's not a few people who, who take offense, it's, you know, literally hundreds of millions of people. So, I can see why you would start an agency that would brief the, you know, the things you need to know and the missteps to avoid. Is that, do you spend a lot of time with your clients talking about things like unintended consequences, be careful of what you do and, and just understand the culture and navigate? Is that a big part of what you do and execution? Or, tell me a bit about,
Ashley Dudarenok
Right, through Alarice we do execution and I've got another company, which is called ChoZen, ChoZeb in English. And, that is the branch where we do consult and train in house teams. Usually for in house teams training, these are much bigger brands right. In like for instance, Shiseido Group, right.
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Ashley Dudarenok
Or, these are the guys that I don't know, Disneyland, etc. and Coca Cola. So, they have a lot of agencies, they have a lot of content. They have a lot of their internal staff members, but China changes so fast. We always say China has this China's speed. But, right now post COVID-19 is China speed on steroids. So, you need to stay on top of those changes. And, you need to really be able to act very, very quickly and as you said, 'Yes, the speed and the fact that you know the market is you know so big and people are acting on you know, things that is both good and it can be a challenge'. So, if you are, you find yourself in trouble you are going to get a lot of heat for it.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Ashley Dudarenok
Sometimes it's short lived, sometimes it basically destroys the brand. An example could be Dolce and Gabbana, many of,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Ashley Dudarenok
Us probably have heard that scandal.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Ashley Dudarenok
The brand has not recovered. Just,
Michael LeBlanc
Wow,
Ashley Dudarenok
Recently, there was a Hong Kong singer and model who actually wore Dolce and Gabbana outfit for a photoshoot. And, she got so much online negativity for it. But at the same,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Ashley Dudarenok
Time, you know, this Xinjiang cotton initiative scandal, Nike and Adidas, they also got a bit of heat online by being on the list.
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Ashley Dudarenok
But ultimately, during this 618 performance, they are also top of their carrier, categories on both JD and Alibaba. So, to be honest, these are, well first of all, they knew how to handle it better, right. They didn't take it to that extent. But also,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Ashley Dudarenok
When it generally comes to the product and brand, if you have a strong brand, if you have a great product, customers are still in China voting with their dollars with their wallets. And they are choosing the best quality and the strongest brands.
Michael LeBlanc
You know, I spent a lot of time here, we spent a lot of time here trying to figure out the COVID era of retail and the COVID year of society about how the past 18 months and we're not really out of it yet, you know, the next six months, but let's call it the COVID era has impacted businesses and, and trying to understand how it impacted consumers. When I think of COVID era in China, I think of it as much shorter and much briefer, because while you know it kind of you started in China, it wrapped up much quicker. I'm not sure it had the same impact on consumer behavior that we're kind of expecting here. What do you, what are your thoughts on that?
Ashley Dudarenok
Well, I would say it was shorter for sure. But, it was also a lot more intense. Nobody knew what, what that was. Nobody before China actually locked the whole city of many million people and virtually shut down the whole country. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Now does it,
Ashley Dudarenok
It was really scary. And people here, don't forget, have, had experience with SARS.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, sure, sure, its not the first time.
Ashley Dudarenok
Much more violent virus. And people still remember that because it wasn't so long ago. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Did it change, that do you think, and it's a bit of an unfair question, because we're still trying to figure it out here, takes a few hours, 10,000 hours, few weeks to change consumer behavior. Do you think anything has changed? You mentioned earlier that you thought we're now, I don't think he used the word accelerated, but it sounds like part of the COVID era also accelerated behaviors and phenomenon in China, would you,
Ashley Dudarenok
Oh, absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc
Would you say that,
Ashley Dudarenok
It has accelerated so many things. And it has changed consumer attitudes and behaviors. For example, when it comes to older consumers, silver haired generation in China, they were not really fond of shopping online. But, when it comes to groceries, you know, in China, traditionally, you go to the small market nearby. And, then you pick all the veggies and very often these older people used to go to supermarkets and open marketplaces twice a day because they wanted the freshest, the best etc.
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Ashley Dudarenok
So, right now everybody orders on group buying, fresh, eCommerce platforms. And you get fresh stuff, and you can get it basically any time of the day. And, this has changed significantly, people became even more cautious, and conscience, conscious about your own health. And, you know, the society and mental health right now is a big topic. And in general, this kind of midnight consumption, we call it (inaudible). So, when you are basically staying up late post 12, and then you browse internet and you purchase things just because you're kind of tired, or you buy this cream that makes you look better in the morning because,
Michael LeBlanc
You're not getting enough sleep.
Ashley Dudarenok
Exactly, because you were not getting enough sleep consistently. So, that behavior has definitely accelerated and China started building 24-hour cities because of that. So, consumers get off work later. Consumers you know, stay up later and that is why 24-hour cities for example, Xinjiang is one such city, or Beijing is building itself into that. You have places for instance, in Xinjiang, that close at three o'clock in the morning, so the whole shebang, restaurants, shops, even government departments are open until 3am. And then, you know, consumers can basically participate in it not just once a week, but consistently on ongoing basis. So, it's something very, very interesting.
And of course, when it comes to especially young people, they were affected a lot. Many of them had to go through a very stressful experience. They're still in college, they didn't know, so what am I going to do as a graduate? What is the future,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure, sure.
Ashley Dudarenok
Going to look like? And Chinese consumers in generally, China is extremely optimistic market, it is an extremely positive. Why? Because in the past 30 years, people have seen unprecedented change in the country. And they believe that their life is not just going to be a little bit better than their parent’s life, but it's going to be a lot better. So, there is this index, which is called lift change index, which method measures in the past 30 years, how much change has the country and its people gone through. And for example, in you know, India, it's, if I'm not mistaken, four or six, somewhere in between there, times, right. So, in the US, it's also around, let's say, four, or three, but China is 33 times, it's the highest in the world by,
Michael LeBlanc
Wow,
Ashley Dudarenok
Far. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Wow,
Ashley Dudarenok
You believe that your life is going to be, in just 30 years, 33 times better than your parents, because this is the speed with which country has developed. And of course, with this COVID-19 people were like, "Oh, my God, I'm not really sure, you know, is my life going to be better?' And that is why that's where mental health comes into question people,
Michael LeBlanc
Oh, I see,
Ashley Dudarenok
Thinking about it. And of course, people in the south, the one that I mentioned earlier, is usually a bit more developed, part of the country a bit more prosperous economically, has a different mentality. Yeah, so, these people also have recovered faster, and they started engaging in revenge consumption, right. Pamper, pampering yourself up.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Ashley Dudarenok
You know, I cannot travel. So, let's spend the same amount of money that I used to travel around the world and purchase and, you know, engage in all these fun activities. But, let's spend them locally, let's purchase more luxury goods, let's really pamper ourselves, use some services, etc.
But, people in the north, they felt very different. They found, felt that oh, my God, I need to save a bit more, because I'm not sure what's going to happen in the next half a year. So, all that right now is more or less balancing out. Up until very recently, China didn't have any major break outs. But, right now, there is,
Michael LeBlanc
There is one in the South right now I believe,
Ashley Dudarenok
Right, yeah, in the South, there's a break out. And people are, right now, running towards vaccination. And, we actually just now, I think it was announced, administered 1 billion doses of vaccines,
Michael LeBlanc
Wow, wow, wow, wow.
Ashley Dudarenok
Already. And yeah, so hopefully, we're going to bring it under control again.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's talk about festivals. And, I think it's commonly known here, when we talk about Singles' Day, you know, in November, that's, that's quite well known, but many of the other festivals are less well known. I think you just wrapped up 618 as, as one of the examples. Seven or eight different festivals, talk about how that shapes the retail experiences. Is this, these big, big drivers that are the big focus and, and, and everyone builds up to them? Like I guess, I want to know if consumers hold off buying in advance of the festivals, and they're really kind of shaped the retail landscape, or are they just like, you know, an Amazon Prime Day or like, here in Canada, The Bay days, like they're just an event. Give me a sense of scale and importance of these festivals.
Ashley Dudarenok
Absolutely. So, things have changed significantly in the past two years. Previously, people would really look for 11 11 and 11 11 is still the biggest and most important one, right when you actually put together a list of products that you for example, you want the GoPro camera and you want to let's say Peugeot watch, and you want a stationary-supplies for the whole year, you would actually put a list of things that you want. And, especially if these are slightly more expensive things you would definitely put them on your wish list and sometimes you will preorder them and the moment 12 o'clock, basically midnight hits, you're there online, clicking "Submit" your order to really get things moving.
This being said in the past two years, things have changed significantly. The first change is that right now definitely a lot more platforms are participating in it, the competition is fierce. At the same time, we have a lot more shopping festivals throughout the year that became big and important for each particular category. At the same time, with these festivals, people are feeling a bit fatigued. Like, basically in China right now we have double five, which is a new festival. So, it's happening on May 5, and then 618 and then double 11, and we have double 12, and then we have Chinese New Year, and then we have Mother's Day, and Mother's Day is all about basically women's kind of festival, and then we have first of May and it's just non-stop.
Michael LeBlanc
From the team that has taken thought leadership and community for retail marketers and direct to consumer brands to the next level with their CommerceNext Conference series. Get ready for season one of The Conversations with CommerceNext podcast. Hosted by veteran retail eCommerce marketer and podcaster, Michael LeBlanc, with co-hosts, Veronica Sonsev and Scott Silverman, and presented by Wunderkind.
Conversations with CommerceNext gives voice to the eCommerce and digital marketing community like never before. You'll hear thought leadership with one-to-one interviews that will dive deep into marketing challenges, winning digital strategies, the latest research, technologies and people behind one of the most dynamic industries in the world. Together real work to make sure as we emerge in the COVID era, that you're ready to take on the new challenges and opportunities and help you thrive with insights and advice from industry leaders who have hands on experience that you need to hear.
Available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, all the major platforms where you enjoy your podcast today, with new episodes debuting every two weeks.
You need a vacation from the festivals.
Ashley Dudarenok
Absolutely, and over the years, in order for you to get those discounts, it also became extremely complicated. So, people are constantly complaining about the complexity. Like, I want to get a discount, but it's not just the discount, you need to, I don't know like, like in previous years, you need to hunt for cats right on, on T-bone, you need to walk around town and you know, scan QR codes, or you need to play mini, mini games with your friends. You need to do so many different (inaudible) we call it. Like the actions, right that you take in order to activate your discount. So, sometimes people felt that you know what, the benefit that you are getting versus the effort that you're putting in, do they really, you know, balance out? For 11 11, the answer is still 'Yes'. And people want,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Ashley Dudarenok
To do it, it's the biggest. It's also not just about Shopping Festival. It's a sharp contrast compared to what we have, you know, as you said, with Amazon Prime Day, etc. Because it is a huge Gala. It is a celebration.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Ashley Dudarenok
It is, it's, it's really, really, I would say, a national level, not just event, it's a festival. And that's the second thing that changed from one day, which is 24 hours, and yes, a bit of pre-sale, and kind of post-sale. Right now, it's a festival, which means it starts on the first of November, and it finishes on the 11th. And not only Xinjiang has it so long, but also for the first time ever last year, Alibaba extended from first to 11th. So, right now it's a true festival, multiple platforms, multiple days, tons of events online and offline. And it's, it's basically crazy. And, that is why it's so successful. And most of the brands, a lot of let's say international brands in China, they make easily 50 to 70% of their turnover.
Michael LeBlanc
Wow.
Ashley Dudarenok
A year in China,
Michael LeBlanc
Wow,
Ashley Dudarenok
On this one day,
Michael LeBlanc
I was gonna say it must be for your clients and for others, a years of preparation that goes into an event of that scale and scope particularly now that it's, it sounds like it's, it's imbued itself right into the culture. So, it's not a shopping day, it's, it's as you said, it's a celebration, it's I guess it's close to like a Thanksgiving or Black Friday would,
Ashley Dudarenok
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Probably be I guess its closest analogy, yeah?
Ashley Dudarenok
Absolutely. And then of course, there are 618, much smaller scale. But for some categories, that still works quite well. There are, as I said, women's day there is this CNY etc. So, brands right now they are choosing, very few brands are participating in all of those events. Because it's,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Ashley Dudarenok
Very, it's very expensive, budget wise. You need to advertise both inside the platform and outside the platform. You need to create a lot of content, you need to also provide benefits and discounts and gifts and the unique packaging. And so, it's a lot of activation. Super big brands, of course, they participate in almost everything. If you're,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure,
Ashley Dudarenok
Huawei or Apple, well, Apple, maybe not in everything. But if you are essentially somebody who really cannot miss this opportunity, you are everywhere. But, for most brands, they select one, maximum two festivals to really focus on. And, they are working, they are good, especially for 11 11 there's always this halo effect, which means after you complete this grand promotion, you essentially get a lot of attention, you get a lot of sales online, offline coming in because people basically saw you like you want more of you.
Michael LeBlanc
Interesting, interesting.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's talk about another, I'll call it a phenomenon, but you may just call it regular day to day business that is maybe coming here not as fast as we thought, maybe it is, and that's live streaming, its shopping on live stream. So, I actually worked for the QVC equivalent in Canada. So I did 24 hour television, which is kind of old school, OG live streaming for, for many, many years. I understand that live stream is very popular, very good sales tactic. Do you think it can transfer over to North America? Or is there something different inherently in the, in the Asian market that makes it so popular? I mean, obviously a digital first culture, obviously more advanced in terms of eCommerce, in terms of penetration and all those things. Do you think there's a crossover potential for a live stream shopping?
Ashley Dudarenok
Well, I think when it comes to live streaming, this is the future of retail. Ultimately, static retail, static pages like what we have on Amazon, and what we have also to large extent in China as well, and everywhere else in the world, while they still drive a lot of traffic and generate a lot of sales, people, at least in China, and also in many other markets here in Southeast Asia, where this is right now being rolled out and implemented, they prefer to go to a page of the product after they read the description. And they prefer to see demonstration especially, for example, this product is on body something that you put on like a dress, how does it look? You know, what is the feature, etc.?
Michael LeBlanc
So, it does it need to be live? Or cannot be like,
Ashley Dudarenok
No, its live.
Michael LeBlanc
That's the distinction I feel. Yeah, it's live, right?
Ashley Dudarenok
It's live, you ask questions, you remember back in the, I don't know, the 90s, at least my impression is, in the US they were also those channels, I'm sure they exist still, where they demonstrate, I don't know, a frying pan for,
Michael LeBlanc
QVC, or the,
Ashley Dudarenok
QVC.
Michael LeBlanc
QVC of the world, yeah, i used to work for one. That's the one I used to work for, it was fantastic,
Michael LeBlanc
Was live,
Ashley Dudarenok
Yeah,
Ashley Dudarenok
Exactly,
Michael LeBlanc
18 hours a day, 364 was, you know, and it feels like that's been around for a long time. And it hasn't really translated here yet on to mobile devices. And, it's still a niche, I,
Ashley Dudarenok
Yeah, but why did many people watch that? Why did they watch? Because it was, you know, demonstrated. And then you could also, I think that interactive kind of feature was lacking, but you still in some places, you could send an SMS late in the day, right, and then your comment would appear on the screen or something like that. So, there were some of the features and people were still watching it. And a lot of businesses were built, based on, you know, QVC. So, that is just the next step. But, it's, it has a different focus, when it comes to live streaming, people, the live streamers, tend to entertain, and explain you the features, and sell, all at the same time.
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Ashley Dudarenok
So,
Michael LeBlanc
It's a real art and science, right? It's a real art and science.
Ashley Dudarenok
It is an art and science. And right now, the most popular trainings in China, when it comes to anybody working in marketing and eCommerce, and anybody who is a salesperson, is how to livestream. How to be better at, you know, dropping those phrases, building this connection instantly. How to introduce any product effectively, etc. These live streaming features of different platforms are extremely, extremely important to understand them. And, I do believe that this is the future of retail, static retail is slowly and gradually going to, you know, become less relevant.
Also, China is obviously right now, a lot of cities already 5G coverage. So, internet is not,
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right, right.
Ashley Dudarenok
An issue. People do not really, a lot of people don't own laptops, and don't use it for entertainment, they use their phones. So, everybody's on the phone. China is already working on 6G. It started basically working on it already a year and a half ago, when they launched 5G, they started working on next generation. And so,
Michael LeBlanc
Payment is, and payment is better integrated into mobile devices. I think that's a big piece of it, right? That kind of these big super apps, right, where it all exists in one place. So,
Ashley Dudarenok
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc
Payment, click and buy is much, much feels much, much. There's much, much less friction for the China cust, China consumer.
Ashley Dudarenok
Absolutely, and right now you have WeChat pay, you have Alipay, you have many other payment options. And of course, China has already launched digital RMB. So, right now this digital RMB is going to be introduced across all platforms. So, previously, when you were within Alibaba ecosystem, you would say, Oh, we do not, do not accept, let's say Widget payments, so that you would use Alipay to pay within Alibaba. Right now, with this digital RMB, basically, the government says, you know what everybody's gonna accept RMB,
Michael LeBlanc
Interseting.
Ashley Dudarenok
This is digital RMB. So, it will allow even the people that might not have had those vault wallets, even though most people in the cities have had them and use them on a daily basis multiple times. But basically, and of course, this payment, you know, facecam payment, and for kids, we have this little tokens, like, watch, right, it's like watches that you wear, and then you can just use them to pay for stuff and parents are pre-approving certain transactions. In, it's incredible what's,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Ashley Dudarenok
Happening in the market and how it all comes together. And live streaming is just one element of that and there will be a lot more. There will be holographic projections. That, we already seen 3D LED screens, when it comes to online, offline integration. We have QR codes culture, of course, that is also not, you know, very broadly used in, in North America. But can it spill over onto North America? I think it will, at one point something live, be it live streaming or any other form of live interaction between the creator and the product. It's already happening. People are already you know, more interested. There's a lot of bloggers, there's a lot of blogger created brands, etc. But probably it's going to happen in a different format and in a different you know, kind of shape.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, last question for you been very generous with your time. Thanks so much., I've learned so much. What do people typically get wrong about doing business or doing retail in China? Like what is the top things that you say your maybe like myself, right, everything's right, everything's potentially wrong. But what are the top things that most commonly people get wrong?
Ashley Dudarenok
Well, I would say people still, they assume a lot. Maybe they know actually, right now a lot of people know that China is a big market and exciting market. And this is a different market. But still, very often, the information about the market comes from okay, two years ago, three years ago, or some years ago, and China changes so fast. So, when you truly go into China, to work, to enter, to build a brand, assume nothing. And, this is very, very hard for a lot of brands to do. And, when I say assume nothing, it means do not bring your foreign KPIs, or benchmark, or models, or, you know, best seller product lines in China and think that this is going to work. Go into the market humble with a lot of cash, it's an expensive market, the potential is also huge. Focus on building a brand because in China, people do not search for products, people search for brands only. And if you don't have a brand, if people don't know about you, they're not going to search it on eCommerce platforms.
And yes, give it time, you're not going to break even and make money in China, if it comes to eCommerce, unless you are some super popular brand that was just not activated in mainland before and people are struggling to purchase this product. Even that is not possible. Because in China, there's so many platforms that allow you to purchase from overseas, etc. You're not going to break even in the first year, so plan 18 months to 24 months. And yeah, have fun with it.
And also remember that what you're learning in China is likely going to be the future of global commerce. So, you're,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Ashley Dudarenok
Not just you know, China is not just taking you to school for China, they're also showing you how,
Michael LeBlanc
The future,
Ashley Dudarenok
eCommerce and retail and new retail emerge likely, at least in the most populous part of the world, such as, you know, Southeast Asia, let's say Africa, the Middle East, and you know, putting all that together that 70% of global consumers if you, you know, Latin America, etc. So, in Europe and North America, things can evolve differently because of a variety of reasons. They feel that they already developed markets, they feel that they have legacy ecosystems that people are generally a lot less willing to change those privacy concerns, and many, many, many other things. But, a lot of other markets outside of these two big ones are actually 70% of global consumers. And that's where a lot of models that are working in China are likely going to also be successful.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, Ashley, you've given us both a sense of the contemporary market that is China and also a glimpse into the future. So, thank you so much. It was a great, great conversation I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed our conversation and the listeners will get to hear you again, coming up this September. You're going to be on the virtual stage for Retail Council of Canada Store Conference. So, I look forward to seeing you virtually again. But for now, thanks so much for joining me on The Voice of Retail podcast. It's been a real treat. And I wish you continued success.
Ashley Dudarenok
Thank you so much Michael, this was a huge pleasure. And, as indeed as you said, if you want to see the future, go to China right now with COVID restrictions in my mind, it maybe more difficult.
Michael LeBlanc
Just call you, that. Next best thing, the best thing just call you.
Michael LeBlanc
Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of The Voice of Retail. Be sure and follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you enjoy podcasts so you don't miss out on the latest episodes, industry news and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a rating and review as it really helps us grow so that we continue to get amazing guests onto the show. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
Michael LeBlanc
Until next time, stay safe. Have a great w