For my last in-person episode recorded live in my Las Vegas pop-up podcast studio at Shoptalk #2022 pop-up recording studio, I'm thrilled to welcome back to the podcast long time friend and colleague, veteran retail technologist, Andrew Cherwenka As a skilled poker player, Andrew is right at home, walking the aisles at Shoptalk, and right at home in Vegas. But in his role as head of eCommerce for Vega, a Vancouver-based, Miami VC-owned plant-based products nutrition company, he's not gambling with his international tech stack - he has built it from the ground up and tells us all about it.
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
For my last in-person episode recorded live in my Las Vegas pop-up podcast studio at Shoptalk #2022 pop-up recording studio, I'm thrilled to welcome back to the podcast long time friend and colleague, veteran retail technologist, Andrew Cherwenka
As a skilled poker player, Andrew is right at home, walking the aisles at Shoptalk, and right at home in Vegas. But in his role as head of eCommerce for Vega, a Vancouver-based, Miami VC-owned plant-based products nutrition company, he's not gambling with his international tech stack - he has built it from the ground up and tells us all about it.
We also dive into Andrew's observations and learnings from the show, including live-streaming and learnings from live streams on the major platforms, DTC success factors, unique product placement concepts, and how to win with Amazon.
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven’t already, be sure and click subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week, and check out my other retail industry media properties; the Remarkable Retail podcast, the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, and the Food Professor podcast. Last but not least, if you are into BBQ, check out my all new YouTube barbecue show, Last Request Barbeque, with new episodes each and every week!
I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company & Maven Media, and if you’re looking for more content, or want to chat follow me on LinkedIn, or visit my website meleblanc.co! Have a safe week everyone!
About Andrew
I lead the eCommerce team at Vega, the pioneer in plant-based nutrition. I'm a husband, a dad of 2 young boys, and an endurance athlete.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated on thought leadership panels worldwide. Michael was recently added to ReThink Retail’s prestigious Top 100 Global Retail Influencers for a second year in 2022.
Michael is also the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts, including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus the Remarkable Retail with author Steve Dennis, Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. Most recently, Michael launched Conversations with CommerceNext, a podcast focussed on retail eCommerce, digital marketing and retail careers - all available on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music and all major podcast platforms. Michael is also the producer and host of the “Last Request Barbeque” channel on YouTube where he cooks meals to die for and influencer riches.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Voice of Retail. I'm your host Michael LeBLanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with Retail Council of Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 00:10
For my last day in-person episode recorded live in my Las Vegas pop-up podcast studio at Shoptalk #2022. I'm thrilled to welcome back to the podcast longtime friend and colleague, veteran retail technologist, Andrew Cherwenka.
Michael LeBlanc 00:24
As a skilled poker player, Andrew is right at home walking the aisles of Shoptalk and right at home in Vegas, but in his role is the head of eCommerce for Vega, a Vancouver-based, Miami VC-owned plant-based product nutrition company. He's not gambling with his international tech stack. He's built it from the ground up, he tells us all about it.
Michael LeBlanc 00:43
We also dive into Andrew’s observations and learnings from the show, including live streaming and learnings from live streams on the major platforms. DTC success factors, unique product placement concepts, and how to win with Amazon.
Andrew Cherwenka 00:57
You know, from a, from a brand standpoint, my biggest concern is I just want to own all of those spaces before someone else jumps on and sells a tub of our protein powder for 1000 bucks. If they're, if they're a legitimate marketplace, I want to have a listing and then we'll see what takes off.
Michael LeBlanc 01:13
Let's listen in now. Andrew, welcome to The Voice of Retail podcast, my friend. How are you?
Andrew Cherwenka 01:18
I'm doing really well. Good to see you again, Michael.
Michael LeBlanc 01:20
Well, I should say welcome back. You, you were on the podcast before I think I want to say almost two and a half, three years ago, which is pretty close to last time you and I saw each other in person in Vancouver, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 01:31
Yeah, that was it, -
Michael LeBlanc 01:32
Fantastic, Well, it’s so fun. We’re here together at Vegas Shoptalk. So, I thought I’d roll the dice and see if we could get you on the microphone and it all panned out pretty well. So, listen, let’s jump in, tell us, tell listeners about yourself and your background and what you do for a living.
Andrew Cherwenka 01:33
Great to see you in-person and great to see anybody in-person after two years. This Shoptalk conference is amazing, right? I am so happy to be here and I'm thrilled to be on the podcast. So, as you know, I've been in eCommerce now for many years. I started in 2003. About half of that time has been on the agency side and then the other half was client side or even with tech vendors. Currently, I run eCommerce for Vega protein powder. That is roughly half the revenue of the company. The other half is bricks and mortar so I'm responsible for anything that goes online. And that is through Amazon, it's through DTC.
Michael LeBlanc 02:23
Interesting.
Andrew Cherwenka 02:24
Our biggest area of growth is omni-channel or bricks and clicks, so the retailer's websites, but that is, that's huge growth category, a huge growth channel and we are a growing category, our plant-based protein powder is doing very well.
Michael LeBlanc 02:38
Well tell me all about Vega, scope, scale, what you sell and, and what makes you guys different.
Andrew Cherwenka 02:42
Yeah, yeah. So, so, Vega is, you know, mostly protein powder, we have some other products as well, but, but that's our, that's our sweet spot. And we sell to US and Canada, some overseas and we're looking for global expansion, but really, it's mostly US and Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 02:57
Right on. And, and it's a protein powder. So, tell me about the skews and the assortment. And you know, what should I look for? I know that, I knew right away when you, when I saw your posting, you went to Vega and like I buy the food bars, protein bars, which are, which are my favorite, but I didn't realize the scope and scale. You got such a great variety of different products so tell us about that.
Andrew Cherwenka 03:15
Yeah, yeah, it's a, I mean, it's we've been around for 20 years.
Michael LeBlanc 03:18
Really?
Andrew Cherwenka 03:19
We are the leader in plant-based protein powder, -
Michael LeBlanc 03:21
Based in, based in Vancouver, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 03:22
Based in Vancouver, but we're now owned by a private equity company out of Miami. WM Partners, and they bought us last July, July 2021.
Michael LeBlanc 03:31
Oh, I didn't track that. That's, now where's the product manufactured? Where do you-?
Andrew Cherwenka 03:35
Canada and the US, -
Michael LeBlanc 03:36
Canada and the US, Okay. So, domestic, let's call it domestic, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 03:38
Yep. Yep.
Michael LeBlanc 03:39
Right on, and, and about how many skews do you have and, and tell me more about why I would choose Vega versus anybody else's product?
Andrew Cherwenka 03:45
Yeah, a, a few dozen core skews probably, you know, 100 plus if we add them all up, but really the, the sweet spot is protein powder, supplemental protein powder. It's plant-based. We, we really created the category 20 years ago in the early 2000s. And since then, the category has grown as you know, plant-based foods are, that category itself is growing leaps and bounds. And, and we are the premium powder. There are competitors out there, probably dozens that are nipping at our heels. In the US we're, we're basically tied for first, second or third with a few other brands. But yeah, it's a, it's an exciting category. It's a very easy product to sell because it's such high quality, it is a higher price point. But, but for my scope, just the online portion, eCommerce we're, we're across Amazon, we've got a really good relationship with Amazon for a long time now. DTC was a bit of a mess when I took it over. Now we've re-platformed, we've got all new vendors that are helping us out, and-,
Michael LeBlanc 04:46
And you said, sh-, shopify-, Shopify, your Shopify Plus platform?
Andrew Cherwenka 04:49
Yes, Shopify Plus, yeah, yeah, yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 04:51
And, and that's, that gives you a lot of flexibility, I guess is that, because you, you came in and, and, and probably one of your first tasks is to I think I remember you posted I'm going to re-platform, I'm going to build a new tech stack. Where do I start? And right? So, Shopify Plus was in the, in the running, and eventually you chose it. And it's bunch of partners. And, -
Andrew Cherwenka 05:09
Yeah, yeah, at the time, when I came in, we were owned by Danone, the French company that also has Evian, and Danone Yogurt. And we were the only, really one of the only non-refrigerated products in the Danone empire. When WM Partners bought us, we're now part of a bunch of other eCommerce strong brands. So, this is a, was a great acquisition, for us. My life improved tremendously with the help of WM Partners, our private equity company is just so supportive. So, it's, it's been, it's been a, an interesting road in the first half of changing the people, the process, the technology. We were not a very a particularly eCommerce forward company. And the reason I was brought in was to restructure and to just look at everything. So, really, it is unrecognizable from a year and a half ago, we have with all new vendors now restructured the people as well, we got, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:04
How's, how's the talent pool in, in Vancouver? I mean, remember you and I were last talking, you know, it's it, generally, in one way, it's a smaller talent pool, but there's, there's kinds of concentrated pockets. And then some big players have come in and hired a lot of people. So, what's the, what's the talent situation like in Vancouver?
Andrew Cherwenka 06:19
I mean, I, I know it's, I know, it's very good because we have, I don't even know what our headcount is, over 100 people total at Vega. But I will say more than half of our people, more than half of my team is, is outside of Vancouver. Half my team is in a different time zone. And I think that's also part of the way that companies are working now. I really don't particularly care where someone lives as long as they have the same working hours.
Michael LeBlanc 06:43
Did that, did that change for during COVID, for you? Like, I, I've talked to a lot of executives. I mean, the technology was really always there culturally, it was a big change for organizations. Is that a change for the Vega organization culturally? And, -
Andrew Cherwenka 06:55
Yeah, not for me because I joined during the pandemic. So, I didn't even meet my boss until about six or seven months into it,
Michael LeBlanc 07:03
Wow, wow, wow.
Andrew Cherwenka 07:04
I still haven't met some of the people, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 07:05
But he liked, did he like the fact you were living in Ve-, in Vancouver, though would, would he, even then would they have hired you as an organization if you were in Toronto, or Las Vegas, or wherever.
Andrew Cherwenka 07:14
I, I think it's an advantage. Certainly, it is a huge advantage to be in the office with people. If somebody is local, and they're the same caliber as someone else that's if not then they're going to have the edge.
Michael LeBlanc 07:25
Right? All things being equal.
Andrew Cherwenka 07:26
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I do think that it's a, it's a, you know, a global recruitment hunt now. We know it's a candidates’ market. If somebody's great, they're in a different time zone, I'm fine with that.
Michael LeBlanc 07:37
They're fine and I guess that gets back to that. And probably also gets to how you choose your platform tech stack, because you want people that with, with transferable skills, you know, a common, a more common platform too, right? So, you can reach out anywhere in North America and find someone who knows one element of your platform, right? That's, that's a big plus for you, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 07:55
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was, we were, really, we had to, clear sailing to go whatever direction we wanted. I was going to build a headless eComm site. I, we interviewed different vendors, we went through a whole lot of RFP process, it made sense to me that we should be Shopify Plus. This was not the direction that Danone wanted us to go because imagine handling dozens or even hundreds of brands worldwide, you would obviously want everybody to be on, on the same platform and headless made sense. I pushed hard against that. And thankfully I did, because WM Partners a new private equity company, their other brands are on Shopify Plus as well. So, we have built up and, and we will be sharing all of the, the brands and the resources in the same fund. And thankfully, we're all Shopify Plus. So, now I can leverage the Shopify ecosystem with all of our different new vendors. So, (crossover talk) I brought in, -
Michael LeBlanc 08:49
A few of whom I seen here today, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 08:50
Yeah, almost all of them are, I brought in Klaviyo on the email side, BrightEdge on the SEO side, we've got Yotpo, we've got, it's interesting meeting with all the different, the brands and retailers, we all have a similar tech stack. If we have Shopify Plus there, there are one or two vendors that lead each of the different wedges of the pie to bring traffic in.
Michael LeBlanc 09:11
Interesting, kind of calorie reduced. By the way to listeners, this is not a Shopify Plus episode sponsored or promotional, but if someone from Shopify Plus is listening, you know, feel free to call me up and throw me a bu-, big bag of money. And, and we'll, we'll just settle out, we'll just settle it later. All right, so, we're here, as you said, we're here at Shoptalk. We're in Vegas. I guess, you know, we were talking off mic that, you know, both of us were talking about, it's time to get out and, and start to circulate now that you know, things have simmered down. And, and you know, we think we're all in a better place. But what, beyond that, what brought you to Shoptalk? And while you're here, what have you been hearing? And if you heard any kind of, interesting things either on the stage, or your chitting and chatting formally or informally and, and has anything that surprised you or delighted you? So, talk about your experience here?
Andrew Cherwenka 09:56
Yeah, yeah, that's, I, I mean, it's the first conference I've been to in 10 year-, in 2 years, similar story with almost everybody that I meet. And we're here to, really to network and see people in real life and get that magic that happens when you talk to people face to face. I've been on so many video conferencing calls in two years and it's just not as beneficial when you're sitting at a table for breakfast or lunch with, with random retailers, and you're sharing your tech stack, and strategies, and you hear about some of the surprising things that are happening. We all get to just bounce off of each other. It just feels I don't know, it feels so much more powerful than, than just the online meetings. So, so what has surprised me I, I think most of us are surprised at the, the need for live streaming. Now, maybe that doesn't, that doesn't apply to all brands. But to us, in health and wellness, it certainly does apply. And I'm looking forward to tapping into a live stream.
Michael LeBlanc 10:56
Now, let's, let's, let's define live stream because it's like one of those terms that everybody has a different definition for. So, I worked as you know, for the shopping channel, which is 18 hours of live television each and every day that we live streamed online as well. I've talked to brands who live stream, but they're, they're really recording and putting on their YouTube site. Are you talking about actual live, like what, what, what in your mind is, is interesting you about live stream, and what's so compelling about it for you?
Andrew Cherwenka 11:22
Yeah, and I, I mean, I would say it's both it is live streaming. So, let's say we get, we get one of our educators, one of our nutritionists live streaming, let's say it's half hour/hour, it could even just be 10 or 15 minutes. But here's our, here's our latest content on health and wellness, how you can use our products, how our products fit in with your life, or even just going beyond that and talking about health and wellness in general. So, live streaming that on our site or on, on in, in, any of the other platforms. And then what interests me is building a content library that people can watch afterwards, and buy during in, in the stream. And that's what some of these tech vendors are providing is the ability to build your own library and have people watch it afterwards. One of the surprises that one of the speakers mentioned, was this notion that live stream actually still does have value after the in the moment, video is done. So, people do want to access that library. So, I want to tap into both, I want to tap into the power of an actual live stream that is syndicated across Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, but I also want that library to be searchable and shoppable.
Michael LeBlanc 12:31
I mean, the challenge that we ran into, and I think continues is how to build what you and I used to call when we were growing up appointment TV, right? Everybody tuned into Mash or whatever, because they-. I remember watching, I remember watching The X Files, my wife is like Friday night at nine o'clock no matter where we were, we were watching The X Files because that's how you consume television. Those days are other than live sports, long gone, right? I think that feels like the biggest. It feels like the technology I as, I as well saw a bunch of tech vendors in that space, and I got a bit of background understanding it, but the challenge, I think for a lot of us, is going to be building that appointment for the live stream. And, and I think the platforms are very helpful, right? People are already following you, you get an alert, hey, I'm on your Facebook or TikTok or whatever. It's going live. All right, you know, of that moment, right? So, it'll be so interesting to see that the two parallel things A), tune in at 10 o'clock, B), just throw it out and see who kind of dials in and keep it fresh. And then as you said, the third part, you know is, is building up that, that video database. (Crossover talk)
Andrew Cherwenka 12:31
Yeah, yeah engage with that afterwards. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 12:38
Interesting. Interesting.
Andrew Cherwenka 13:25
And if it died in the moment, then I would just be going on QVC just, just be going on the, on the platforms if it died in the moment. I, I don't, we're not going to have a big enough audience on our site to bring people into a scheduled program, 2 pm every day. But the fact that I can keep it and have a searchable content library is what excites me.
Michael LeBlanc 14:00
Right.
Andrew Cherwenka 14:01
And it's not either or, it is both, yeah, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 14:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're creating content and then you, you know, content lives on forever, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 14:08
Yeah, (crossover talk) the other and, and sorry to answer the question on, on surprises. The other surprise to me is the, the number of new technologies and opportunities in the, in the realm of DTC, direct-to-consumer. There's no question every single brand, every retailer wants to have their own DTC site. Some just aren't inclined toward it like refrigerator products but some like me with protein powder.
Michael LeBlanc14:11
Shelf stable, as we, as we would call it.
Andrew Cherwenka 14:12
Absolutely yeah, yeah. And, and it lends itself so well to subscriptions because we're a monthly purchase.
Michael LeBlanc 14:41
Sure,
Andrew Cherwenka 14:42
DTC makes a ton of sense. And, and there are so many new opportunities with DTC from, from AI search tools to, you know, putting live streaming on as I said, or all the different ways that we can reach out. We met with a vendor who has offered to put our products, sample sizes of our product in upscale Airbnbs. So, you know, $500 a night or more.
Michael LeBlanc 15:07
Product placement.
Andrew Cherwenka 15:08
Exactly and (crossover talk). So, these are so we're, we're, we've got so many vendors here that have interesting ways to bring people back to our site. So, of course, a free sample has a QR code. And if somebody is on a long-term, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 15:21
QR code, okay, was that on your bingo card, that QR codes were going to come back the way they have? Like, pre-pandemic, come on.
Andrew Cherwenka 15:27
Yeah. Would I, would I've bet on that, no, no, no, -
Michael LeBlanc 15:29
Come on you're a you're a betting man. But I don't know, I would bet you wouldn't have bet on that, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 15:33
Yeah, no, I, I wouldn't have but boy has it ever come back with a vengeance.
Michael LeBlanc 15:37
With a vengeance. Let's, let's skip ahead a little bit. I want to circle back and talk about digital. But let's talk about what you're describing. And if I, if I frame it as brand equals wholesale and retail, right? And you do both, right? You sell direct? And you also sell through wholesale, Amazon, you probably consider, do you consider that in your retail relationships? I mean, you really, -
Andrew Cherwenka 15:57
It's a retailer.
Michael LeBlanc 15:58
Their a retailer, right? Okay, so let's, just so we chalk the field, because everybody talks about this stuff a little different.
Andrew Cherwenka 16:02
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 16:03
You know, my experience has been threefold. One, is a lot of brands, don't know what they're getting into, because they're very good wholesalers. And the retail piece of the business is very foreign to them in five different ways, right? And the other part is, I think they discover that it's kind of hard, right? That it's hard to like, like, the money just doesn't, oh, this is great. I'm going to save all this money, because I don't have to go through that boring middleman anymore. The useless middleman, oh, my God, it's hard because platforms are expensive. Like, how do you think about that, building, both culturally and from a business-, one plus one equals three? In other words, I'm going to sell direct, and I'm going to have a purpose for that. Why would I come to your site? Why would I go to Vega to buy if I can buy from Amazon? If I can buy from any other wholesale? How do you-, and in your discussions with the retailer's, how do you stitch that together and say, here's why this makes sense for all of us. And we're all going to win talk, talk about how you guys think about that?
Andrew Cherwenka 16:56
Yeah, yeah, I mean, first DTC is such a small percentage of our overall business. It's, it's my task is to make it a bigger, perce-, I actually don't care about the percent. I just want it to grow. Because I do believe that people want to have a closer relationship to brands that they trust. And Vega is a trustworthy brand. After two decades, we're a G-Corp, we do the right thing, we're clean inside and out, we have a really good story. And those who like our product, are more inclined to join our email list, to join our subscriptions, to come back to see if there's any new content where they can learn how the product fits in with their lives. And, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:34
And that gives you a nice direct connection to the customer for everything from new product launches, to product development too, right? Which is harder to come by if you're exclusively a wholesale relationship, (crossover talk)
Andrew Cherwenka 17:43
Exactly, exactly. We're not the kind of thing where it's you know, it's not like a TV purchase, where you buy once. We are, we are a company that offers products, and if you like our Sport Protein Powder, you're probably inclined to like some other powders as well or other, other products that we have. So, that relationship, we know for sure many customers go to websites to learn more about the products that they're going to buy. And then they go to Amazon to buy it. And I'm fine with that, Amazon is a great partner of ours, and it is the bulk of our online revenue, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:50
(Crossover talk) Well, they got the bulk, they got the bulk of the audience, So, -
Andrew Cherwenka 17: 51
Oh, over half of searches happen on Amazon and protein powder is one of the hottest categories on Amazon. I mean, it's, it's, it's unavoidable, but I don't, I, I know a lot of retailers are trying to avoid Amazon. I don't know why, at least for us, they're a great partner, and they are a growing part of our revenue. But of course, I also want DTC because our customers want to have a website that they can trust, that they can learn more, and they want to buy directly from us. And there are many reasons why. Now I'm building those reasons, with the help of loyalty programs, with subscriptions, etc. But if you just want to go to Amazon, or you want to go to walmart.com, target.com.
Michael LeBlanc 18:14
God bless you, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 18:22
That's amazing, too. It doesn't matter to us.
Michael LeBlanc 18:28
Right, right. And I guess the overall is together grow the addressable market, right? I mean, you know, retailers, by in large, you know, they just want to see the, you know, their share grow, but then also want to see, their share of the pie get bigger and the pie get bigger itself. So, you get more people, and I guess you work together, let's just get more people having, consuming this product together, I guess is the idea, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 19:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the retailers, this time last year, I was saying internally, it's going to be paid a play on walmart.com, target.com. It's, it's going to come where we have to invest more in paid media on each of the retailers’ websites.
Michael LeBlanc 19:38
They're all into marketplaces now.
Andrew Cherwenka 19:40
They're all, yeah, they're marketplaces but also just on, on our product page on walmart.com. Not even on the marketplace, but our product pages. We have to pay close attention to those product pages, make sure it's updated content and pull whatever analytics we can because not every retailer shares the analytics.
Michael LeBlanc 19:56
Do you worry about marketplaces, you know, there's many retailers in marketplaces and of course, the concern is just getting lost, right? You're needing more and more retailers to turn you their minds, I think correctly to curating their marketplace versus, you know, all comers just list and, and we tried to make it. But you know, what are those things that, you know, when you look at a marketplace, is that what, how you assess it is like, how do I make sure and not get lost. I want to make sure I'm in the right neighborhood. I don't want to be beside the cheap imitation product from who knows where kind of products right? Is those, these are the things you kind of look at when you look at different marketplaces?
Andrew Cherwenka 20:29
Yeah, I mean, I was at Walmart, VP strategy and customer experience at Walmart Canada, when we launched our marketplace when we were building it. And then when we launched it, and I saw those initial few months where all of the different vendors, it was, it was a mishmash, some were trustworthy, some were not and I think, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:48
It takes a lot of work, right to do that?
Andrew Cherwenka 20:49
Well, and I think we did it the right way. Open the floodgates and then pare it down from there rather than up whether rather than go slowly to start. But it was, it was a, you know, tough start. I, I wasn't running that project. Tough Start, good value prop and overtime. Walmart Canada figured it out. So, I know I mean, and what was it 10 years ago BestBuy took a crack at their first marketplace. It's, it's been everyone wants one. All the big retailers, -
Michael LeBlanc 21:17
It all sounds pretty easy. That's great. The vendor will ship direct. I just sent him a note. I, we had the same thing. Listen, going back 10 years ago at The Shopping Channel, we had, we just called a vendor direct, they still have it.
Andrew Cherwenka 21:26
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc 21:27
Where some inventories held, and shipped direct from the retailer. Others typically long-tail stuff, is shipped direct and, and earlier days the platform's are very immature, right, to customer. We have got, we can get your order. And then like, oh, well our fax machine ran out of paper. Like literally, I think we're past that. So, I think,-
Andrew Cherwenka 21:48
My, you know, from a, from a brand standpoint, my biggest concerns is I just want to own all of those spaces before someone else jumps on and sells a tub of our protein powder for 1000 bucks. If they're, if they're a legitimate marketplace, I want to have a listing, and then we'll see what takes off.
Michael LeBlanc 22:03
You spent, and I guess you're putting some thought into other people selling your product, you know, whether that's, whether they were allowed to or not. So, there's some enforcement stuff and there's, -
Andrew Cherwenka 22:14
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 22:14
It's a monitoring right, of any, of any platform, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 22:18
You know, I'd say that's one of the, one of our key areas of focus in the last year was clamping down on the 3P resellers,
Michael LeBlanc 22:25
Right.
Andrew Cherwenka 22:26
Particularly those going on Amazon to sell product that they got from us or from somebody for cheap and then just turning it around and making, making a few bucks themselves. Or, and that's, that's the totally legitimate side. But we still want to make sure that we have some, some reseller policies in place. The, the tough side of those that are re-stamping our products. Expired product, and they're literally re-stamping and-, (crossover talk)
Michael LeBlanc 22:51
It's fraud, right, I mean,
Andrew Cherwenka 22:52
It's it's total fraud, Amazon helps us to shut it down. But we still have to play Whac-A-Mole.
Michael LeBlanc 22:57
I was going to say it's like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole.
Andrew Cherwenka 22:58
Yeah, get them when we can.
Michael LeBlanc 23:00
Let's get, let's get back to digital for the last couple of questions. So, as you think about, and you've been on a great journey, A), you've got great experience and background. And B), you've been on a great recent journey building tech stack and thinking about this stuff. And I often think about, you know, table stakes to be successful versus differentiators. And, and you know, kind of advice, not necessarily at Vega, but just generally as you've been thinking about all this stuff, you know what, what is it in your mind, that is becoming more and more differentiated? So, for example, you know, payment plans, like your, your zip, for example, which used to be a differentiator, right? You can, you can divide your payments up. And now, more and more, they're not there yet, become a bit of a table stake. And then everybody's got it. And then you got to go find something else. How have you been thinking about? Do you think about it that way as you, as you build the stack?
Andrew Cherwenka 23:46
Yeah, it's, I'd say most of the conversations I have with other brands, other retailers is we first share what our tech stack is, particularly if we're all on the same platform like Shopify Plus, and it's really easy. Who are you using for email, who do you use for loyalty, who are using for subscriptions? So, we share the tech stack, and then, and that's sort of the table stakes is okay, of course, you have an email platform, you can share with me which one it is, but then what's different about your email? How are you-, And everyone wants better organic traffic? Are you using a platform or an agency to help you with SEO, with search engine optimization? So, it's, it, the table stakes now are if you're a retailer or brand, and you don't have all of these things, well, then you're, you're behind the curve. It'll, it won't take long to catch up. Couple of months, six months, a year.
Michael LeBlanc 24:35
That's the good news, right? I mean, that's getting really easy.
Andrew Cherwenka 24:37
Yeah, it's real, easy now, it's so easy. You don't have to write your own code. You shouldn't write your own code.
Michael LeBlanc 24:41
Right. Yeah.
Andrew Cherwenka 24:42
And, and, and even if you have the resources, you should go to those that are best in practice. I don't want to learn all about email. I want a provider to do it for me. So, the table stakes are just having that mark on tech stack filled out, checking all the boxes. What differentiates you is how you relate with the customer, the different things that you can do to build the trust to give them reasons to come back, to build out, not just to have a loyalty program with a vendor like Yotpo, the one we're using, but to use it properly, to put some life in your voice and not just, not just go through the motions.
Andrew Cherwenka 25:18
And of course, to make sure, this is what we've been saying in retail for, well, in my career for 20 years, I'm sure for hundreds of years, but be where the customer is at. And I'm hearing that again here, is to make sure that you are present wherever they are. And that's why I want to be on every retailer’s website. I want to be on every legitimate marketplace. I want our own website because people expect to learn more on their own on a DTC. I want to, of course, be on Amazon, and Pure Play e-Retailers. So, we are now, I'd say the first, first step was just doing a lay of the land to see where are we not? Or where do we have outdated product pages, outdated images?
Michael LeBlanc 26:00
A bit of triage, right? So, triage, and then-,
Andrew Cherwenka 26:02
Yeah, yeah, and then check all those boxes, and then you can start to fly and then you can really just say, okay, here, this is taking off, this is taking off, this is an area didn't expect to grow. And then how can we layer different things on top, like live streaming? I don't think customers expect live, live streaming, not yet. They expect a level of personalization, all these opportunities that have been around.
Michael LeBlanc 26:21
Expecting a little content, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 26:22
Yeah, yeah. But it's going beyond with the, the extra things that we can provide.
Michael LeBlanc 26:28
Interesting.
Andrew Cherwenka 26:29
And for a trusted brand, like Vega, that's been out for 20 years.
Michael LeBlanc 26:33
It's almost like, it is pretty much table stakes, right?
Andrew Cherwenka 26:34
Yeah, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 26:35
Like they know, you know, they, I think people expect to go to a site like yours and find in-depth information about the choices they're making, because you're consuming the products.
Andrew Cherwenka 26:42
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc 26:43
That may not be on a marketplace, or even your wholesale, that's fine. I'll go to Vega, I and I'll go find out, -
Andrew Cherwenka 26:48
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 26:49
Is this, is this the right product for me? Last question for you. So, you're doing business on both sides of the border? I'm just curious any difference in the consumers that you've noticed or tactics? Do you do anything different on both sides of the borders? I mean, Canadian typically, you know, when I think of the Canadian consumer, they're a little more risk adverse. Typically, they're a little more value oriented some days, they're a little less willing to try something new. American consumers generally, in my experience, a bit less (inaudible), you know, very adventurous, which is the great spirit of the, the country, that-. Anything jump out at you that you do things differently, or experience things differently?
Andrew Cherwenka 27:23
I mean, I have theories, and they're often proven wrong with the data. I, I thought perhaps the American consumer was more price sensitive, particularly with inflation with the price of gas, I thought that, that our product, as a higher price premium product, wouldn't do as well. That the lower price products in these last few months would do better. And that is actually panning out on both sides of the border. But I don't think that's an American versus Canadian consumer thing. I think that's just, you know, the times are calling for people to tighten their belts and they're, they're less inclined to buy premium products.
Michael LeBlanc 27:56
Is that also a gateway strategy for you guys? In other words, start with a lower price and people work up to premium. Is that maybe in other words, maybe the benefit of more people knowing Vega trial is more the one price point. I mean, the two things could be mixed together.
Andrew Cherwenka 28:09
Yeah, I haven't seen that behavior. But I will say for sure that Protein and Greens, one of our lower priced, fewer ingredients, products, have a really simple product, protein ingredients or protein made simple, that those, those lower price products are doing better today. Our strategic account services people at Amazon, those are helping us with our Amazon 1, 1P are super excited about protein made simple because that in these times right now, they're expecting that'll do better than something like say Vega One, which is a higher price product.
Michael LeBlanc 28:43
Premium product.
Andrew Cherwenka 28:44
And, and is that ever happening. Like in these last few months, the, the lower price products are doing better. But if somebody wants an all-in-one they want, they want one supplemental powder that helps them for the day. Vega One is still the choice and it's still one of our lead hero products.
Michael LeBlanc 29:03
Last question for you. What's new? I mean, what's coming up? What's, what are you working on? I mean, it's a, it's a funny question for you because everything's new. You're building up the stack, but what are you looking forward to for the rest of the year?
Andrew Cherwenka 29:15
I mean, what's new? It's funny here at this conference, people are talking a lot about the metaverse and I don't know, yet. I mean, it feels like Second Life from, what was that 10-15 years ago? I don't see much on that. I've seen some pitches where it feels like we're just forcing the technology on people. Particularly on a DTC website. I don't think you need an immersive experience to learn about protein powder. I do think things like live stream makes sense. But getting into the metaverse, not yet.
Michael LeBlanc 29:45
Not for you.
Andrew Cherwenka 29:45
So, not, not for me yet. I'm also happy to be proven wrong. Yeah, I know, I know, I know better than to, to bank on my own preferences.
Michael LeBlanc 29:56
That's one of the good things to come into these conferences, right? I mean, there's the practical, pragmatic stuff. And then there's the maybe I should think about, start thinking about that. Just think about it for the next, you know, maybe in a couple of years it's something, maybe it's-,
Andrew Cherwenka 30:07
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 30:08
Maybe it goes nowhere. And, who knows?
Andrew Cherwenka 30:10
Yeah, I think, I think what's new is there are, it seems to me, that there are more and smarter vendors that are helping us, particularly with DTC. I mean, on the Amazon side, there are some incredible agencies and Amazon is a, is a fairly easy problem to solve, right? If you have, if you have the right support, it's not a whole lot different that you can do. You get your A plus content, you get the right paid media, you spend it properly, figure out where in the funnel you want to allocate your dollars. It's, it's, it's not that complex, it's fairly predictable. It's on the DTC side where there are more and more opportunities.
Michael LeBlanc 30:46
More moving parts.
Andrew Cherwenka 30:47
We talked earlier about global expansion. I'd love to get into other countries. But as a food product with many different ingredients, there are many, there are so many limitations for us to expand. There are vendors that are going to help us to do that. And that's exciting for me is to think, particularly on the DTC side, all the new things that we can be doing, that will just help us open up revenue without a huge investment. I mean, nothing's easier than taking a percentage off of, of incremental sales. That's my favorite kind of vendor. If it's not a heavy, upfront cost, hey, why not? As long as it doesn't slow my site down, and that's the other concern is with all of these new things that we can do, layer upon layer, then you start to impact performance. So, we have to keep an eye on that right. (Crossover talk)
Michael LeBlanc 31:30
It's interesting, weigh down on the site and so much is done on mobile, which is, you know, even more, more sensitive to that kind of stuff, that weighty stuff. Well, listen, Andrew, it's been such a treat getting back together with you. So, great to see you in person. So, great to have you on the microphone. You know, it's been too long. So, listen, I wish you much continued success. And I look forward to keeping in touch and seeing you at the next event later this year,
Andrew Cherwenka 31:53
Oh, I so appreciate it. I love your podcast and I love being on it. Anyone wants to, wants to reach out to me with, you know, new vendors, new ideas. You can find me on LinkedIn last name is Cherwenka that's, C H E R W E N K A.
Michael LeBlanc 32:06
Fantastic. Well, thanks again for joining me and wish you safe travels back home.
Andrew Cherwenka 32:10
Amazing, Thank you, Michael.
Michael LeBlanc 32:12
Thanks for tuning into this special episode of The Voice of Retail. If you haven't already, be sure and click and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so new episodes will land automatically twice a week. And check out my other retail industry media properties, the Remarkable Retail podcast, Conversations with CommerceNext podcast and The Food Professor podcast with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 32:31
Last but not least, if you're into barbecue, check out my all new, YouTube barbecue show Last Request Barbecue with new episodes each and every week. I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, president of M. E. LeBlanc & Company and Maven Media. And if you're looking for more content or want to chat, follow me on LinkedIn or visit my website at meleblanc.co.
Have a safe week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Vega, product, DTC, people, retailers, brands, vendors, platform, amazon, Shopify, building, protein powder, Vancouver, crossover, retail, marketplace, live stream, site, eCommerce, podcast